Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Lobster

And here: http://operationalwarfare.com/

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ORIGINAL: fogger

What is the use of posting any information? ALL the testers have signed a NDA so we are limited in what we can post. A fact of life so get use to it.

Every time Larry and I try and give some limited information all we get back is BITCHING.

Stop shooting the messagers.

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ORIGINAL: General Staff
Since you guys as testers are presumably unpaid volunteers, have you considered, as an altruistic service to the fading, dwindling remnants of the community, the possibility of posting the source code on GitHub (or some such repository) and then organizing and project managing an open source PROGRAMMING effort.

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ORIGINAL: 76mm

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ORIGINAL: General Staff
Since you guys as testers are presumably unpaid volunteers, have you considered, as an altruistic service to the fading, dwindling remnants of the community, the possibility of posting the source code on GitHub (or some such repository) and then organizing and project managing an open source PROGRAMMING effort.

hmmm, could be tough since they presumably neither have nor own the source code...

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ORIGINAL: 76mme]
hmmm, could be tough since they presumably neither have nor own the source code...

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ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
I asked David Heath for the TOAW source code many many years ago and he didn't think that was a good idea. No go.

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ORIGINAL: fogger

What is the use of posting any information? ALL the testers have signed a NDA so we are limited in what we can post. A fact of life so get use to it.

Every time Larry and I try and give some limited information all we get back is BITCHING.

Stop shooting the messagers.

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ORIGINAL: Tamas

Bob, who you know as Curtis Lemay on the forum, has started helping Ralph out with coding tasks

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ORIGINAL: Lobster

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ORIGINAL: Tamas

Bob, who you know as Curtis Lemay on the forum, has started helping Ralph out with coding tasks

You da man Bob.

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ORIGINAL: Tamas

Hello Guys,

I would like to raise a few points:

1) I completely understand if the community is impatient. Can't really blame you for that. We really appreciate those of you who still keep an eye on this forum, and I will be counting on you to join the beta team once we extend it (following the finalisation of the new graphics)

2) The beta testers have signed an NDA and under it they can't even disclose information without our approval, let alone release the game or the source code (which they don't have, anyways) to the community. This is just silly talk and please stop.

3) We have asked the beta testers to withold information for now not because we are cruel, but because things are still too much prone to change. The moment we have the final graphics look of the game I will start posting screenshots, and we will probably do beta AARs. Just a little more patience please.

4) The reason for very slow communication is that progress itself has been much slower than we anticipated. This does not reflect on our dedication to make TOAWIV a high quality product and a worthy new flagship of the series, quite the opposite.

5) Finally a very good news: Bob, who you know as Curtis Lemay on the forum, has started helping Ralph out with coding tasks. His feedback has already been invaluable, and now he is able to take over smaller but still quite important work (like improving UI features) while Ralph can concentrate on the bigger stuff. This already has resulted in the development picking up pace, bringing the time when we can unveil the look of the game much closer.


Thanks again for your patience and continued support of the team!

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ORIGINAL: Tamas

Hello Guys,

I would like to raise a few points:

1) I completely understand if the community is impatient. Can't really blame you for that. We really appreciate those of you who still keep an eye on this forum, and I will be counting on you to join the beta team once we extend it (following the finalisation of the new graphics)

2) The beta testers have signed an NDA and under it they can't even disclose information without our approval, let alone release the game or the source code (which they don't have, anyways) to the community. This is just silly talk and please stop.

3) We have asked the beta testers to withold information for now not because we are cruel, but because things are still too much prone to change. The moment we have the final graphics look of the game I will start posting screenshots, and we will probably do beta AARs. Just a little more patience please.

4) The reason for very slow communication is that progress itself has been much slower than we anticipated. This does not reflect on our dedication to make TOAWIV a high quality product and a worthy new flagship of the series, quite the opposite.

5) Finally a very good news: Bob, who you know as Curtis Lemay on the forum, has started helping Ralph out with coding tasks. His feedback has already been invaluable, and now he is able to take over smaller but still quite important work (like improving UI features) while Ralph can concentrate on the bigger stuff. This already has resulted in the development picking up pace, bringing the time when we can unveil the look of the game much closer.


Thanks again for your patience and continued support of the team!

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ORIGINAL: General Staff

1) Great, thanks. Finalization of the new graphics- do you have a deadline, end date (or to put another way, when can we expect to see something that would indicate progress)?

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2) Of course the Beta Testers don't have the source code, that's silly talk. But someone does, and putting the source code on Github (or some such) might get this project the help it so obviously, desperately needs. I don't see why this type of talk needs to stop, surely this has taken so long now that other ideas, ANY ideas, are worth discussion.

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3) We know you're not cruel, but some folks might wonder whether it's because you don't have anything to show, or it's so minimal it might be regarded as a dilettante effort (and don't forget we already have the ability to mod graphics and some aspects of the UI, so what's being withheld has to look as though it's taken significant time and effort).

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4) Fair enough. But why is that? And it absolutely does reflect on your "dedication to make TOAWIV a high quality product and a worthy new flagship of the series", since if this were the case you'd put more time, effort and resource into it than you have done. If the projection #s aren't working for you, and every extra year of delay they surely worsen, the more reason to get extra help to finish it.

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5) Curtis Lemay on this. Great. I have the utmost respect for his good efforts and stand in awe of his patience regarding the delays on this. But there's a point at which I have to start wondering why- as a longtime fellow TOAWer- he doesn't speak out at the endless delays on this project and become more of a voice advocating a solution to this endless loop. Rather than his good name being trotted out as an apologist for Matrix here and risking being perceived as part of the problem.

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ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay



For years I dreamed about what I would do if I ever got my hands on the source - oh the changes I would make! Reality has been a shock. It's almost like ole Norm invented his own coding language. Even the simplest things are incredibly involved to achieve. That Ralph has accomplished all that he has leaves me in awe. If Ralph were AWOL (and that has been the case a few times in the past) I would not keep that secret. But that is not the case. The code is being worked on continuously. It's just a very large task to finish up all that we committed to - larger that we anticipated. But progress is being made and the finish line will arrive. Continue to be patient.

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It's understandable that this code was probably going to be in Norm's possession in his mind, so it's unlikely he went to great lengths to comment it for others editing.

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ORIGINAL: FF_1079

I can sympathize with this from first hand experience working on others PLC code. It's written in a much simpler way, even less complicated than the old line number BASIC, but it still has a signature, or a handwriting that is unique to the original programmer. Give two people the same exact multi step task for a PLC to perform and you will probably see two very separate and distinct code trees when they are put side by side. If not enough comments are inserted into the code ( other than cryptic notes that are only of meaning to the programmer ), it will take a good bit of time just to understand how the program works. It's understandable that this code was probably going to be in Norm's possession in his mind, so it's unlikely he went to great lengths to comment it for others editing.

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ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

My understanding is that it was written so long ago it was before 1's and 0's were invented and he had to use the lowercase L and the capital letter 'O'. It was a heroic epic to write the original code for the first time.

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ORIGINAL: Lobster

That's funny because I commented one time in the TOAW forums that I was told the code was like a plate of spaghetti. All mixed up. But Ralph replied that Norm was a fine programmer and the code was well written. So which is it? I would have to believe Ralph since he's been working on it before Noah had the ark finished.