Routing friendly units important issue

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Routing friendly units important issue - 9/29/2016 4:44:55 AM

marcdhanna
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 159
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

Hello,

re-posting here, from the general forum, as a game support request/possible bug...

Okay I searched the forum for this rout mechanic issue.
This game is quite amazing to play, as a longtime ASLer it's fun and relaxing but this routing problem I seem to be experiencing is annoying. Still not sure what is going on. I didn't see any of the developers comment about this issue in any other posts about routing problems, so if something has been said, apologies for missing it.

I am wondering if this is a bug:

B+ unit routs to a woods or building hex. Next hex behind it (further or same distance away from enemy in that unit's LOS) is another woods or building hex. The unit is routing normally (not low crawl). According to manual it can continue routing, as it pleases, up to six hexes (presumably like ASL if suitable hexes are adjacent).

However, over and over, my B+ units can rout only hex then stop. They can't go two hexes, much less six.

This is unfortunate because usually a rout of one hex won't get you out of LOS to a proper rally point. Either something is wrong here, or I am doing something wrong. Hopefully the latter! any insight appreciated.

Post #: 1

RE: Routing friendly units important issue - 9/29/2016 1:13:50 PM

Peter Fisla
Moderator

Posts: 2503
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline

Hi,

Well, Tigers on the Hunt is a wargame inspired by ASL but it is not ASL. I will see what I can do to improve the Routing logic.

Thank you for your feedback!

< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 9/29/2016 1:14:07 PM >

(in reply to marcdhanna)

Post #: 2

RE: Routing friendly units important issue - 9/29/2016 1:22:36 PM

marcdhanna
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 159
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

Peter thank you for the prompt reply and thanks for good work!

I don't expect the game to behave like ASL, sorry to give that impression. What I am saying is I expected routing to behave as described in the manual.

Perhaps these sluggish routers have some LOS to an enemy unit I am not expecting them to have. Perhaps it is because they were formerly OOC. What I do know-- I don't understand why they stop after one hex when they might be able to go six.

all the best!

(in reply to Peter Fisla)

Post #: 3

RE: Routing friendly units important issue - 9/29/2016 9:12:19 PM

Peter Fisla
Moderator

Posts: 2503
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline

So after doing a bit of investigation, what I need to do is update the manual (page 98). The player is allowed to move a broken+ unit(s) up to 6 hexes; however once the units enter Building/Rubble/Woods hex, the broken+ units are not allowed to move any further in the segment.

Thanks

Peter

< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 9/29/2016 9:13:12 PM >

(in reply to marcdhanna)

Post #: 4

RE: Routing friendly units important issue - 9/30/2016 3:46:50 AM

marcdhanna
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 159
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

Thanks Peter, adding of that one line to the manual clarifies the issue... much appreciated. Cheers!

(in reply to Peter Fisla)

Post #: 5

RE: Routing friendly units Defending Meximieux & AI - 10/1/2016 5:53:10 PM

marcdhanna
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 159
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

Hello,

Quick ARR combined with reports on routing and AI feedback:

so I went back to this scenario Defending Meximieux and found that sometimes B+ units get stopped routing when they get to a woods hex, sometimes they can continue on. I wonder if the CPU is calculating that enemy units that are out of LOS of the unit are still closer and preventing extended routs? In any event, it isn't always true that the routed B+ units are prevented from continuing on when they reach the building/woods. |Or at least woods -- by this time the units in town were pretty much crushed by the AI.

This does add a certain charm as one could argue routed units shouldn't be well controlled anyway. So there is the unpredictability of what these routers are going to do!

Settings were very difficult and fog of war with high path-finding skill enabled

Noticed the AI isn't aggressive enough with taking ground/objectives. The enemy clearly could have taken the remaining two objectives on the last turn, as it had pretty much slammed my defending units in the town area. I had nothing to prevent these moves, which would have lead to a decisive victory. AI did start moving some tanks towards the objectives -- but inexplicably stopped two hexes short. Didn't try to run infantry in range either. AI is a bit trigger happy and should hold fire and move more often.

It seems the AI prefers to fire if there is an enemy in sight, even if it is just an unarmed leader. As a result of too much firing and not enough moving, the enemy failed to take these easy objectives and I 'won'. AI isn't easy to program in games like this but I wonder that the objectives seem to be downplayed in the algorithm? Nevertheless, damn fun I know in reality I lost -- heh very difficult is indeed very difficult, very tough to manage units cohesively as they lose command here and there. Using the command rules (I assume similar to Solitaire ASL) is a very good idea. Esp. when the AI doesn't have to worry about it at very difficult.... cheers!

(in reply to marcdhanna)

Post #: 6

RE: Routing friendly units Defending Meximieux & AI - 10/5/2016 10:48:09 PM

Peter Fisla
Moderator

Posts: 2503
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marcdhanna

Hello,

Quick ARR combined with reports on routing and AI feedback:

so I went back to this scenario Defending Meximieux and found that sometimes B+ units get stopped routing when they get to a woods hex, sometimes they can continue on. I wonder if the CPU is calculating that enemy units that are out of LOS of the unit are still closer and preventing extended routs? In any event, it isn't always true that the routed B+ units are prevented from continuing on when they reach the building/woods. |Or at least woods -- by this time the units in town were pretty much crushed by the AI.

This does add a certain charm as one could argue routed units shouldn't be well controlled anyway. So there is the unpredictability of what these routers are going to do!

Writing AI Rout logic that handles a user creating all kinds of different terrain maps is very difficult and CPU processing is very high. Considering that Routing logic has to handle such things as KNOWN enemy units or being LOS etc...its very heavy on processing; of course the code can be tweaked but it is definitely not easy. I also believe that the user has a bit too much control over its broken+ units. I think really, the player shouldn't be in control but since I was inspired by ASL, the player is in control.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marcdhanna
Settings were very difficult and fog of war with high path-finding skill enabled

Noticed the AI isn't aggressive enough with taking ground/objectives. The enemy clearly could have taken the remaining two objectives on the last turn, as it had pretty much slammed my defending units in the town area. I had nothing to prevent these moves, which would have lead to a decisive victory. AI did start moving some tanks towards the objectives -- but inexplicably stopped two hexes short. Didn't try to run infantry in range either. AI is a bit trigger happy and should hold fire and move more often.

I can possibly tweak the AI to be a bit more aggressive when in ADVANCE...I will see what I can do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marcdhanna
It seems the AI prefers to fire if there is an enemy in sight, even if it is just an unarmed leader. As a result of too much firing and not enough moving, the enemy failed to take these easy objectives and I 'won'. AI isn't easy to program in games like this but I wonder that the objectives seem to be downplayed in the algorithm? Nevertheless, damn fun I know in reality I lost -- heh very difficult is indeed very difficult, very tough to manage units cohesively as they lose command here and there. Using the command rules (I assume similar to Solitaire ASL) is a very good idea. Esp. when the AI doesn't have to worry about it at very difficult.... cheers!

Well the AI was written with Command and Control rules in effect, and yes I was inspired by SASL. I love SASL II, been playing ASL VotG CGII with Paullus for 7 years now playing against the Russian system player and we are having total blast. Very difficult setting is even better, AI doesn't check for C&C...only human player does.

Cheers!

Peter

< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 10/5/2016 10:54:25 PM >

(in reply to marcdhanna)

Post #: 7