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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out!

 
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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 9/25/2016 9:32:54 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		Should we send Italians for this one? CW might rebase good fighters from north and then we need Bf109.

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 9/25/2016 9:33:22 PM   
AllenK


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Status: offline 		Just what I was thinking.

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 2:10:19 AM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		Shall we go first and try to empty both sea areas by fighters and naval bombers, unless storm strikes?

I also need to fix my defence line in northern Spain.

< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 10/1/2016 6:08:20 AM >

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 6:07:24 AM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		If weather allows, Germany can fly FW Condor to St. Vincent box 4, FTR to St. Vincent box 2 and FTR to West Med box 2. Other German NAV's will intercept to box 2 in both sea areas. Germany chooses land and saves last air move for ground strike. Malta is OOS so that fighter can't intercep at all. If you port strike Malta CVP can intercept.

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 10:04:14 AM   
AllenK


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Status: offline 		No port strike. I think it can react to West Med 2 box. If not, could fly it there in Naval Air.

Wondering whether trying the Italian subs in St Vincent while most of the escort is in port.

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 11:44:59 AM   
AllenK


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Status: offline 		Better plan. Will rebase the Nav so it threatens East Med and also the Ftr to in range of Malta to provide escort for port strike. That Trans looks a juicy target. I'll hold back the subs to see where they are needed later in the turn.

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 12:03:51 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		Yes, keep subs in reserve. Planes can go this impulse.

< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 10/1/2016 8:42:17 PM >

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 12:21:09 PM   
AllenK


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Status: offline 		Not enough air moves. Will just rebase the fighter to keep the escorted port strike on.

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 12:26:49 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		Move German planes as planned above and intercept some Italian NAV's to box 2

Right, Italian planes are needed to initiate combat.

< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 10/1/2016 12:28:31 PM >

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 1:10:42 PM   
AllenK


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Status: offline 		Just checking. 2 Art and Stuka to ground strike Gibraltar? Or did you want the Stuka to try the HQ's? Me-110 could react to the defence if necessary.

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 1:28:36 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		Stuka and 2 ART hit Gibraltar. If intercepted use 6 point Bf109

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 1:30:32 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		Germany rails from southern Spain ARM and 8 point MOT to Warsaw and MOT from Malaga to Memel.

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 2:17:43 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		Only CVP. Send 5 point fighter.

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 6:05:04 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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Status: offline 		Word of caution: You have to get rid of all Allied forces from the mainland by the time the US DOW's Germany/Italy. If not, the US will pile into there and you will never get the Allies out. Liberation of Western Europe will begin there late '41/early '42. I had this happen to me just because of a partisan I didn't get rid of in Bayonne.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 6:46:36 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		I know, but Gibraltar must fall first. Attacking Spain is about to feel like a mistake...

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 7:54:41 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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Status: offline 		Of course Gibraltar is your #1 priority.

The problems I see:
1. Playing with very pro defense 1d10 versus 2d10 which favors offense. This makes Gib more difficult. Imagine being in USSR trying to take Leningrad, Sevastopol, or Rostov. If I HAD to play 1d10 for some reason, I would never do Barbarossa...I would Sitz all the way and focus on the Med. and have an Axis naval strategy.

2. Where are the German and Italian PARA's? And MAR's? Corps and div.'s. You could have a MAR attack Gib from the ARTY hex (switching out a new one from behind every time you make a follow up attack). I'm not sure what bonus you get for dropping PARA's in 1d10, but in 2d10 these are used to crack open tough defenses. I know one PARA was lost on the worthy gamble on Madrid, but I hope it was immediately re-built.

3. I don't know what you have in your force pools unbuilt as far as air is concerned, but I would have every FTR2 and FTR3, and NAV's, and LND2's built out (German and Italian)...which of course requires a ton of pilots. By the end of '40 I'm working on some LND3's keeping gearing up for the 1941 FTR's.

I know it feels like a mistake, but this is your first attempt at going through Spain, and Orm is a good and scrappy player. Going through Spain is a valid strategy. Don't disregard it in the future because of a (possibly) negative experience in this one. Players who want to take Gib through invasion normally cant do it until M/A'41 at the earliest (more often M/J or even J/A). So, be patient and get the tools you need.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 7:59:51 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		Axis have no PARA or MAR. Germany have 3 NAV's, few FTR2, 1 Stuka and 1 FTR3. Italy has 4 NAV's and few FTR2.

I will build more air forces now. I'm very worried USSR can break the pact...

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 8:21:48 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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Status: offline 		So long as you contain the northern Spain bridge head, send your ARM and SS units east. USSR is in no position to do much yet anyway. Don't forget the US entry...and I think they still have not taken Baltic States?

A common build strategy for Germany in '39 is building a bunch of pilots...and then continuing the pilot/air construction program. In my game vs Brian I built a bit fewer than normal in S/O'39 only because Germany had the production boost and opportunity to build HQ-Guderian in case I need his help in the Summer. I'm not sure that was a smart move on my part, but we'll see...I've never gotten the chance to do that. Pilots, air power, special units.

Even 3pt FTR2's you have in the reserve pool are useful if you can get spare pilots into them...notice you are fighting 2pt Nimrods.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/1/2016 11:17:56 PM   
Centuur


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Status: offline 		The build strategy does not reflect a close the Med. In such a strategy, all PARA's and MAR available to the Axis should be build ASAP (that means the Italian air lift should be build too). If you lose one of those units, rebuild them immediately. It's no use to build a lot of ARM or MECH, since the terrain in Spain is mostly mountains, in which you can better use good INF instead. Also, Italy should try to start building another TRS.

Sure, the USSR is lurking on the border. But with a close the Med, you always go for a Sitzkrieg, at least until 1942 comes around, at what moment Germany should decide what the possibities are, regarding the Soviets and to take into account the fact if they could close the Med or not by that time (and probably decide to a Sitzkrieg for as long as you can, except when you can enter Iraq in force).

The build strategy somehow looks if the German player doesn't want to decide what it wants to do first. That's giving the CW the possibility to make a good defense of Gibraltar. Consider: you can attack Gibraltar with a PARA, MAR, two ART, the 1st INF, the Berlin MIL and a 2 factor division, supported by all Stuka's and three HQ's in reorganisation range if you have a good building strategy. If you use an offensive with those units present, that will give you far better possibilities of taking the hex, as compared to the units you've got now. Even with 1D10 (which really favours the defender), things are better if you've got the right units.

And there's another thing to consider. I believe that the Axis are using far to many combined actions. It's far better to use an air action in the first impulse (ground strike Gibraltar with all you've got) and reorganise all planes and in the next impulse attack the rock, with all planes again available for ground support.

How to proceed in the current situation? That's difficult, with no PARA or MAR. Those units could have given you about 20 extra attack factors in an attack using an offensive chit. That's where the problem really lies. In the current situation, there is only one thing you must do. And that is to attack the Rock each impulse with good weather and hope for the die to produce the best result possible. That will cost you units, but you haven't got a choice. If you wait for better odds, you won't get them, since the CW will always put the big BB's at sea for defensive shore bombardment. And if they lose one, who cares at the admiralty in London. They've got enough of those to lose.


< Message edited by Centuur -- 10/1/2016 11:21:44 PM >

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/2/2016 2:39:59 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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Status: offline 		Ark Royal Bro...get rid of that 4 range Gladiator.

Oh, you already shot him down...very good! I would still go after the Ark Royal.

< Message edited by Jagdtiger14 -- 10/2/2016 2:42:58 PM >

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/2/2016 3:14:43 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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Status: offline 		I like to place my carrier planes on the worst CV's (best possible plane on worst possible CV) to reduce the likelihood my best CV(s) are targeted. Its tempting to kill a lesser CV to kill the pilot, which is a big deal. But in this case you have to ask yourself if you are playing for this turn, or longer term? Looks like you get to choose the X and one D. You could sink the Ark Royal, and still damage/abort another CV with a plane if you roll well. I cant remember the CW builds, but I think they get some good green CVP's this year.

If you sink the Ark Royal you keep the CW naval air arm at low quality for a long while. If you do not, there are some really nice 40/41 long range/high quality planes (the Fulmar's, and some very decent Swordfish).

< Message edited by Jagdtiger14 -- 10/2/2016 3:23:11 PM >

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/2/2016 3:20:39 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		My main goal is to sink/abort ships with planes so that I can sink them all during thus turn. Or force them to empty sea area.

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/2/2016 3:21:07 PM   
Centuur


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Status: offline 		I agree with mr. Jagdtiger 14. Sinking the Ark Royal also gives the Royal Navy more problems with the draw of newly build CVP too, since they might draw CVP's which do not fit on the other carriers. If you get another choice, you should target the loaded CV to see if it aborts.


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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/2/2016 3:27:58 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		I lost my fighter. I don't want their weak fighters shoot my previous NAV's down. I think I fly next impulse Bf110 to box 2.

< Message edited by Mayhemizer -- 10/2/2016 3:28:26 PM >

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/2/2016 3:33:43 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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Status: offline 		Even with the Axis choosing only 1X, my opinion remains the same.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/2/2016 3:40:16 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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Status: offline 		I always wait for my opponent tell me which CV's he lands his planes on before I let him know which CV(s) I'm targeting. You never know what someone might do. Now for certain they will not land a plane on the Ark Royal (although very unlikely Orm would have made that mistake anyway...but you never know...).

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/2/2016 4:05:54 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		Oops, I thought they land before AA fire.

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/2/2016 4:13:34 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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Status: offline 		It doesn't matter...they have to inform you where they land before you decide your target(s). I'm relying on information I'm seeing in the AAR report, so maybe this info has been passed around by exchange of files? I didn't read anything about where planes have landed.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/2/2016 4:16:53 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		Yes, it will be shown on AAR. Now I'm home and I have some time to look at situation. I think I will target X on Ark Royal. CVP in box 4 has air to air value 0. 2 factor CVP in is box 3 on CVL.

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RE: Warspite1 Keep Out! - 10/2/2016 4:21:28 PM   
Mayhemizer_slith


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Status: offline 		About building units: You might guess I have never tried to take Gibraltar before. Next time I know.

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