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What are your fleet compositions? - 10/2/2016 5:12:49 PM   
RemoteLeg


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I was just reviewing fleets the other day & realized that I've gotten into a bit of a rut. I always build the same fleets, so I'm looking for ideas about good fleet compositions.

I usually have just 3 combat fleet "types":

1)
Pickets: small fleets of 4 frigates that are moderately armed with about 5 beam weapons. They patrol their assigned home systems and ward off those pesky pirate attacks of just 1 or 2 ships.

2)
Battle Fleets: destroyers or cruisers with hefty firepower in fleets of ten. They are fast and flit around the galaxy putting out fires wherever needed. They're designed to fight other fleets. I prefer to give them Titan Beam weapons and have them fight point blank.

3)
Starport Smashers: ten capital ships with long range weapons, shields, armor, and countermeasures. Their job is to take down enemy star ports and defensive bases. I try to give them missiles instead of beam weapons so they can fight in standoff mode.

Also, each fleet gets a Utility Ship. This ship gets all the fancy stuff that helps the fleet do it's job such as fleet counter measures, long range scanner, etc. I put it all on this ship so the others don't need to bother.

Of course there are auxiliary fleets of troop transports, resupply ships, etc. but these are the backbone.

What do you do?

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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/2/2016 9:48:44 PM   
Aeson

 

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I tend to have four main types of combat fleet:
1. Defense fleets. Much like RemoteLeg's picket fleets, except usually with five frigates instead of four. Once pirates are eliminated as a serious threat, these fall out of service or are combined into larger formations and assigned to protect nearby systems.
2. Destroyer squadrons. Typically composed of ten destroyers, these are my early-game battle squadrons, but tend to become infrastructure raiders and light attack squadrons later in the game; may also be employed to support the heavier combat fleets in larger fleet actions or assaults on heavily defended colonies.
3. Cruiser squadrons. Typically composed of ten cruisers, these are my later-game battle squadrons and usually do not exist prior to construction size 500 or so.
4. Carrier groups. Typically composed of ten large carriers, these are usually deployed to assault colony defenses or to support large fleet actions.

I typically use one or more cruiser or destroyer squadrons ("battle groups") and a carrier group to assault colonized systems, with the battle groups going in first to draw the attention of any hostile warships in the system and the carrier group following to attack the fixed defenses or, if necessary, to support the fleet action after the enemy warships have been engaged. Unless I'm in a hurry, the battle groups will be withdrawn from the system once the only targets left are the colony defenses (space port and defense bases), with at least one battle group being kept in deep space near the system as a rapid response force in case of a hostile fleet attacking the carriers; any other battle groups participating in the operation will be employed for other tasks at my discretion. Once the orbital defenses have been destroyed, a battle group (typically one of the destroyer squadrons) will be assigned to maintain control over local space around the colony and the carrier group will usually be employed elsewhere.

Defensive frigates are typically armed with blasters and carry an assault pod, and may also be equipped with a tractor beam and jump denial system. In the midgame, they will also typically use Kaldos Hyperdrives, as the Kaldos Hyperdrive has much better response times within system and continues to have a better response time out to around 0.2 sectors away from the home system ("nearby systems" covers things out to about 0.25 sectors away from the home system) than the Equinox Jumpdrive, Calista-Dal Warp Drive, and Gerax Hyperdrive.

Destroyers are typically armed with blasters, blasters and phasers, blasters and torpedoes, or torpedoes while cruisers are typically armed with torpedoes or torpedoes and missiles. My cruisers tend to have a heavier armament relative to their size than the destroyers do and as a result are slower than the destroyers, with cruise speeds typically around 20 for cruisers and 30 for destroyers in the early-mid game. Destroyers may occasionally be equipped with assault pods in the early game, though these will typically disappear later in the game.

Carriers are typically size-750 or larger and are unarmed but for a small battery of point defense weapons; I go back and forth on whether to provide carriers with heavy shielding and armor or reasonably high sublight speed.

I will occasionally make use of a fifth type of fleet, the Hunter-Killer (HK) fleet, which is intended to pounce upon and kill (or, rarely, capture) pirate construction ships, resupply ships, the occasional advanced warship, or really anything else I deem worthy of a specialized fleet. Prior to the development of jump denial systems, HK ships need to be able to close the range and deal damage rapidly or the target is likely to escape; as a result, my HK ships tend to be faster and more heavily armed than is typical for my warships, and are also more likely to use graviton beams, railguns, and proximity arrays than my other designs. HK ships will generally fall out of service or be modified to be more similar to my standard warship designs once jump denial systems become available as such systems greatly reduce the target's ability to escape before being destroyed.

quote:

Also, each fleet gets a Utility Ship. This ship gets all the fancy stuff that helps the fleet do it's job such as fleet counter measures, long range scanner, etc. I put it all on this ship so the others don't need to bother.

My mobile Long Range Scanners tend to be on Resupply Ships and Exploration Ship variants, neither of which will be part of a fleet. Having one nearby is all that's necessary; each fleet doesn't need its own dedicated Long Range Scanner.

I don't really have a set way of employing Fleet Targeting and Fleet Countermeasures; sometimes I don't bother with them at all, sometimes I'll put them on every large warship, and sometimes I'll create a specialized flagship to carry them (and any fleet admirals) in relative safety.

< Message edited by Aeson -- 10/2/2016 9:50:58 PM >

(in reply to RemoteLeg)
Post #: 2
RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/3/2016 4:51:20 PM   
Bingeling

 

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Not that I play a lot, but...

In general I follow RemoteLeg, but I prefer to follow AI designs that come with some more or less randomly chosen race. So I use the designs provided.

Early game colony defense against pirates is an exception. It may require quite large fleets, especially if they use weapons that bypass shields. It is also often quite futile.

The default setup:

1) Raider fleets. Maybe 6 destroyers (or frigates if that design seems better). They can defend a bit against weak pirate attacks, and can kill mines, especially in systems that are not heavily defended. They tend to end up being quite forgotten.

2) Battle fleets. The general purpose fleet, supposed to beat any AI fleet. They should also be able to bust a medium spaceport or less, if only helped by a few ships or small fleet. I tend to end up somewhere around 13 cruisers and 4-5 carriers in these. I tend to play with very slow research, so I never get capital ships...

3) Crusher fleets. These should be able to beat the defenses of a high end target, without using micro management. In composition, they are just larger battle fleets. Keep in mind that these may be spaceport busters with short range blasters, whatever the AI uses. If you have inadequate tools, use excessive force instead. If a target seems really hard, I may use two of them, or add a battle fleet, or whatever.

(in reply to Aeson)
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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/4/2016 1:05:06 AM   
echo2361

 

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I tend to go with a standard set up as follows:

- All escorts are automated, designed to slightly outmatch the firepower of most pirate frigates I see to escort my private sector economic vessels throughout my empire. This tends to keep them close to the action.

- Most frigates are automated like escorts but designed to slightly outmatch the firepower of most pirate destroyers I see. They protect my empire's infrastructure and act as a rapid response force.

- 1st Fleet always guards my home system and is made up of destroyers and frigates at first, then eventually cruisers, battleships, etc.

- 2nd,3rd, 4th, and so on fleets guard my most important colonies. They can move around as needed to respond to serious pirate raids or to attack pirate bases.

- Each fleet has frigates designed for point defense, destroyers with lots of torpedoes, cruisers with lots of direct fire weapons, and larger ships with a mix of weapons along with carriers.

- To assault enemy empires a number of fleets will be gathered together along with logistic vessels, troop ships, and so on. While those fleets are at war the remaining fleets, including 1st Fleet, will spread themselves thin to ensure total coverage of my empire.

(in reply to Bingeling)
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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/4/2016 6:25:58 AM   
RemoteLeg


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Does anybody assign "escort" missions?
I tried to escort freighters on routes that got attacked often, but I decided it was just a waste of fuel.

Now I prefer to assign small fleets to patrol the destinations at both ends of these routes rather than sending ships to accompany the freighters. If the freighters are fast enough they can often outrun the attackers and perhaps lead them to my patrol fleets who are waiting at the destination. If the freighters can't outrun the pirates ... well ... tough luck.

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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/4/2016 6:21:41 PM   
Bingeling

 

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I am not far from the truth if I say that I have never given an escort order. I put all my fighting ships in fleets. I focus on defending colonies (and important mines) when bothered by pirates, and otherwise just hunt whatever enemy there is, being pirate or empire.

The exception can be early game colony ships, where I send a fleet in advance to the target system.

(in reply to RemoteLeg)
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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/4/2016 7:01:08 PM   
Retreat1970


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From: Wisconsin
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quote:

but I decided it was just a waste of fuel.


If there was finite resources I would agree.

(in reply to Bingeling)
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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/4/2016 11:15:47 PM   
Uncle Lumpy


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I've never bothered to assign escort missions. If a freighter is taken out by a pirate, it's probably because it's obsolete (too slow). And if it is taken out, it has to be replaced; more money for me when my spaceport builds it. The funny thing I did notice when ships are automatically assigned to escort is that the ship they are to escort is typically on the other side of the galaxy!

< Message edited by Uncle Lumpy -- 10/4/2016 11:49:46 PM >

(in reply to Retreat1970)
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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/4/2016 11:48:43 PM   
Uncle Lumpy


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As far as fleet composition, it tends to change. My only "standard" fleet is a defensive fleet for every colony. Typically 2 frigates and a destroyer. Or as the game progresses, 2 destroyers and a cruiser. My main fleets have typically been a mix of different classes of ships. I still feel each class should serve its intended function in a fleet, even though they really don't in the game. I have had some success with this concept by varying the settings on the Ship Design screen (Evaded, Stand Off, All Weapons, etc.). All Troop ships and Carriers have no weapons and are set to Evade. Battleships are typically Point Blank. My main fleets are also regionally based to cover several sectors, and the edges of the regions to overlap each other as much as possible.

I've been playing Retreat1970's Unleashed and Extended II, and currently in a vicious fight with a huge Boskara empire. I'm constantly one level of tech behind, and always out numbered-it's great fun! So far the only way I've been able to survive is by building fleets entirely of the largest Cruisers and Battleships I can. I've researched and armed them with Nuclear Missiles (range 1200), and set them to Evade. Even though their attack strength is half against armor, they still pack a ton of a punch, and there is no loss of attack strength do to distance. They're still at 100 attack at 1200 range.

(in reply to Uncle Lumpy)
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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/5/2016 12:09:16 AM   
Retreat1970


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quote:

I've been playing Retreat1970's Unleashed and Extended II, and currently in a vicious fight with a huge Boskara empire.


Awesome, that's two confirmed players now. Boskaran's? You are in big, big trouble.

(in reply to Uncle Lumpy)
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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/5/2016 12:10:37 AM   
Uncle Lumpy


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Tell me about it.

(in reply to Retreat1970)
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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/5/2016 12:12:52 AM   
Uncle Lumpy


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Worst of it is that my empire stands between the bugs and my three allies. Two of the allies are so far away I get no actual military help at all.

(in reply to Uncle Lumpy)
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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/5/2016 1:57:21 AM   
RemoteLeg


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Joined: 4/21/2015
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

The exception can be early game colony ships, where I send a fleet in advance to the target system.


Yes, I've done that too. Send a fleet just to hold the territory until the colonists arrive. After colonization, the fleet makes that its home system and defends while I build a space port and mining stations.

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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/31/2016 5:10:32 AM   
syntaXerroR

 

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I used to build escorts and set them to auto empire wide to harass the pirates. As your empires widens, I find the numbers of escorts required to cover it grows too large, so I have stopped using this strategy.

Now I just have fleets of 30 made of Cruisers, Destroyers and Frigates at a 1/1/1 ratio. The frigates are very fast and the cheapest of the designs. They have moderate armour, light shields and brawler weapons. I like railguns as they bypass shields and exploit the retreat at %armour/module damage, late game, these change to Titan Beams.

The destroyers have a mix of 50/50 torps/missiles (depends on the game) and brawler weapons. And the Cruisers will be all torps/missiles with maybe a few close in weapons. As I get more construction size, I increase the number of weapons proportionally. Also, speed and maneuverability are very important, so this also gets proportional improvement. Generally the Destroyers and Cruisers will be max space and the Frigates (as they need to be able to close fast) have -100 or 20% less space (depending on amount of space available due to tech level). Always fit every ship with enough solar panels to cover the static energy cost. Late game, I have military ships use Hydrogen and civilian ships use Caslon.

Never build the largest size ships as they get reduced warp speed and no benefit.

< Message edited by syntaXerroR -- 10/31/2016 5:11:54 AM >

(in reply to RemoteLeg)
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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/31/2016 7:24:17 PM   
Retreat1970


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From: Wisconsin
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quote:

Never build the largest size ships as they get reduced warp speed and no benefit.


?. I build Battleships with normal warp speed and huge benefits. Explain more about your opinion.

(in reply to syntaXerroR)
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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 10/31/2016 11:51:21 PM   
syntaXerroR

 

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quote:

Retreat1970: I build Battleships with normal warp speed and huge benefits. Explain more about your opinion.


Your right, I just checked it. I remember that being the case a long time ago and have never built Capitals since. Did they change it in a patch or did I just nerf 1 of my designs and 'think' that was the case? (The later is probably more the case.)

On the point of no benefit. Larger chassis don't provide any benefit other than allowing you to have more designs that aren't obsolete as you can only have 1 design of each chassis that is 'current' at a time. You can have multiple design but when attempting to upgrade, only the latest design is available to be selected.

Also, when you get to say 1000 space in a design, you can build an escort with max space or a cruiser with max space. You can even switch it up and build an escort with 1000 space and have a cruiser with 120 space if you wanted.

(in reply to Retreat1970)
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RE: What are your fleet compositions? - 11/1/2016 6:42:30 AM   
Aeson

 

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quote:

Your right, I just checked it. I remember that being the case a long time ago and have never built Capitals since. Did they change it in a patch or did I just nerf 1 of my designs and 'think' that was the case? (The later is probably more the case.)

As far as I am aware, there has never been a hyperspeed penalty tied to any of the ship classes. That being said, it is not necessarily the case that it was a design error or accidental nerfing of a design which mislead you; it is possible for designs which had sufficient reactor output to fully power their hyperdrives to cease to have sufficient reactor output to do so once you develop one or both of the technologies which improve the hyperdrive, especially if you are not also improving reactor technology in step with hyperdrive technology. It's also possible, especially if you worked from a computer-generated design rather than designing from scratch, that the capital ship design simply didn't have the hyperdrive that you thought it had.

quote:

You can have multiple design but when attempting to upgrade, only the latest design is available to be selected.

You can order ships to retrofit to a specific class in a couple of ways. Firstly, you can select ships individually in the main window and order each vessel to retrofit to a specific class in the retrofit submenu of the cntrl+rmouse menu. This is inconvenient at best, however. The second method is to open the Ships and Bases list, select a group of ships of the same role, and click the Retrofit button; this should bring up a menu which will allow you to select any non-obsolete design in that role from a drop-down list, thereby permitting the issuance of retrofit-to-class rather than retrofit-to-latest orders to multiple ships simultaneously. It isn't as convenient as retrofit-to-latest is, but if you want to have multiple contemporary designs within one role in service concurrently, it's perhaps the easiest way to take care of the retrofitting problem when using more than one design in the same role.

There's also a couple ways to use retrofit-to-latest while playing with multiple designs within a given role, if you're willing to keep ships of different same-role classes in separate fleets. You can upgrade one design, issue retrofit-to-latest orders to fleets using that design, wait a little while, upgrade the next design, issue retrofit-to-latest orders to fleets using that design, etc, or you can play around with the obsolete flag in the Designs menu to do the same thing (playing around with the obsolete flag may be better, especially if you do not want to upgrade all ships of a given class at once). If you're playing with multiple designs in each of several roles, managing this becomes a bit more of a pain, but it can still be done. You might also try playing with the Retrofit flag in the design screen, as if I recall correctly that is set per design rather than per role, but that flag is only good for avoiding automatically-issued retrofit orders (I don't recall if that includes the advisor-suggested fleetwide retrofit orders, so if you accept those suggestions, check before it has a chance to become a problem).

Regardless, even knowing the above ways of managing multiple classes within the same role, I agree with the sentiment that having multiple designs within the same role is not generally worth the added management required to make it work.

(in reply to syntaXerroR)
Post #: 17
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