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Surface combat - 10/3/2016 6:19:38 AM

palioboy2

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Joined: 12/16/2009
From: Canada
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So the IJN is whooping me up and down the south Pacific. I have been lucky though and I have had a cruiser force stumble upon a bunch of Japanese transports fleets. But I can't get them to engage at night, the IJN taskforces don't move but my cruisers will sail in and engage them at night but then leave before the day. I set them to remain on station and send them into the same hex as the transports. But my CL's move in attack at night and then move back out. This is annoying because the moon light is really low right now and instead of shredding these transports apart, tons of them manage to escape.

Please help! I need to hurt them well I can!

Post #: 1

RE: Surface combat - 10/3/2016 6:27:36 AM

Anachro

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Use way points to keep them in the area, and keep your reaction level high. Don't use Remain on Station. The won't react to anything.

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Post #: 2

RE: Surface combat - 10/3/2016 6:51:27 AM

palioboy2

Posts: 190
Joined: 12/16/2009
From: Canada
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Okay I will take them off of remain on station. But the problem isn't that they aren't reacting it is that they are always reacting at night. There are no enemy combat ships in the area, just transports but because my ships don't attack during the daylight they aren't being nearly as effective as they should.

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Post #: 3

RE: Surface combat - 10/3/2016 7:30:09 AM

Shark7

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The question I have is are you doing this in the early or late game? And having them react and move into air strike range during daylight hours is a bad thing, which may be why they are only moving in at night.

While there is always quite a bit of just blind luck to it, during the early part of the game, the IJN will have an advantage even in daylight. And here is what it boils down to. In the early war, the IJN ships are just better trained than their allied (Particularly USN) counterparts.

A Comparison in 12/41, keeping in mind this is on average, some ships will be better or worse:

IJN Light cruisers: crew experience ranges from 65-75 both day and night

USN LIght Cruisers: Crew experience ranges from 45-55 day and 35-45 might

British Light Cruisers: Crew experience ranges from 60-70 day and 50-60 night.

Dutch light cruisers: Crew experience ranges from 50-60 day and 35-45 night.

Now as you point out, Allied ships will do better in day combat, but are still at a disadvantage in crew experience. And USN ships tend to fair the worst at game start. In the game sense, its all about the numbers, and the numbers just do not favor the Allies at the start.

As to your ships not reacting during the day, perhaps the IJN has air superiority? If so, the fleets would be less likely to move in during the day when they are vulnerable to air strikes.

The good news for an Allied player is that as the game progresses and your allied ships get radar and gain experience, the scenario should reverse itself, with the IJN being at a disadvantage in surface combat, no matter if it is day or night.

One other thing to consider with your light cruisers in particular is the number and types of guns. USN light cruisers will eventually do far better simply based on the fact they are using a large number (15) of a superior naval gun. It makes a huge difference, even early in the game. I have lost count of how many posts there are in the AARs telling tales of how CL Boise managed to best larger, more capable combatants, or managed to sink large numbers of IJN shipping on its own in the first few days of the game.

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RE: Surface combat - 10/3/2016 7:46:40 AM

palioboy2

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From: Canada
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It seems that I have air superiority. The fight is taking place on the shores of Guadalcanal. And in the past three days I have only had my cruiser taskforce attacked once by two Nells (I think) and that was at night.

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RE: Surface combat - 10/3/2016 8:49:52 AM

Barb

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Does your SCTF had plenty of ammo? Deprived of main ammo the TF will be less likely to engage.
Also do you have TF commander with high enough aggressiveness? Some AGR 30 guy is much less likely to engage than an AGR 60.

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RE: Surface combat - 10/3/2016 10:47:40 AM

Leandros

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Does your SCTF had plenty of ammo? Deprived of main ammo the TF will be less likely to engage.
Also do you have TF commander with high enough aggressiveness? Some AGR 30 guy is much less likely to engage than an AGR 60.

I was about to mention the same. If one of the ships in your TF has less than 1/3rd of ammo the TF won't fight.
Anyway, that is how I read the manual.

Fred

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RE: Surface combat - 10/3/2016 2:07:55 PM

Oberst_Klink

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What about the TF commanders or in particular the skippers of the main surface ships? What FP are used and what is their status? When I assign a vital mission I take the extra 5 min time to review the 'Hansels' who are in charge and responsible ;)

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RE: Surface combat - 10/3/2016 5:57:51 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: palioboy2

It seems that I have air superiority. The fight is taking place on the shores of Guadalcanal. And in the past three days I have only had my cruiser taskforce attacked once by two Nells (I think) and that was at night.

Out of curiosity, what is the TF commanders agression level? That will definitely affect the way the TF reacts as well.

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RE: Surface combat - 10/3/2016 6:21:29 PM

Oberst_Klink

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: palioboy2

It seems that I have air superiority. The fight is taking place on the shores of Guadalcanal. And in the past three days I have only had my cruiser taskforce attacked once by two Nells (I think) and that was at night.

Out of curiosity, what is the TF commanders agression level? That will definitely affect the way the TF reacts as well.

I found something that might heko the lad as well:

http://witp-ae.wikia.com/wiki/Naval_Tactics

As for aggression, aye! I especially check the naval and aggression ratings of the skippers for U-boats.

The leader matrix can be found here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56215959/leadersmatrix.pdf

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 10

RE: Surface combat - 10/3/2016 6:46:41 PM

Anthropoid

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Joined: 2/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: palioboy2

It seems that I have air superiority. The fight is taking place on the shores of Guadalcanal. And in the past three days I have only had my cruiser taskforce attacked once by two Nells (I think) and that was at night.

Out of curiosity, what is the TF commanders agression level? That will definitely affect the way the TF reacts as well.

The only thing worse than a timid incompetent commander in command a Combat TF is an aggressive naval expert in command of a cargo TF!

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Post #: 11

RE: Surface combat - 10/3/2016 7:30:27 PM

ny59giants

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If your not subject to enemy air power then I would go with setting the TF in a "Patrol Zone" with high reaction range (can go up to 6). Next, your SC TF leader needs both Nav and Aggr skills to be above 60. A leader is consider "aggressive" if the value is 60 or above. If you have the PP (political points) to spare, check and replace leaders of the warships. I filter by high Inspir and then look for Nav and Agg. When your CL/CA/BB are not in combat, rest the FPs until their Morale is 99 and then do 100% Training in Nav Search, then Recon, and lastly in ASW (get average above 50 for each skill). If you have multiple CL/CA in TF, then somebody needs to be switched over to night. Did you do that? Your modern American CL that you get at start and then the Cleveland Class are very good in surface combat. Don't throw them away!

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 10/3/2016 7:35:41 PM >

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Post #: 12

RE: Surface combat - 10/10/2016 6:56:15 AM

Alfred

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Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: palioboy2

So the IJN is whooping me up and down the south Pacific. I have been lucky though and I have had a cruiser force stumble upon a bunch of Japanese transports fleets. But I can't get them to engage at night, the IJN taskforces don't move but my cruisers will sail in and engage them at night but then leave before the day. I set them to remain on station and send them into the same hex as the transports. But my CL's move in attack at night and then move back out. This is annoying because the moon light is really low right now and instead of shredding these transports apart, tons of them manage to escape.

Please help! I need to hurt them well I can!

Most surface combat occurs at night. Get used to it.

Alfred

(in reply to palioboy2)

Post #: 13

RE: Surface combat - 10/10/2016 7:27:56 AM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: palioboy2

It seems that I have air superiority. The fight is taking place on the shores of Guadalcanal. And in the past three days I have only had my cruiser taskforce attacked once by two Nells (I think) and that was at night.

Out of curiosity, what is the TF commanders agression level? That will definitely affect the way the TF reacts as well.

The only thing worse than a timid incompetent commander in command a Combat TF is an aggressive naval expert in command of a cargo TF!

What? Of course those 4 PBs can take those Allied BBs. No problem at all...all cargo ships full speed ahead!

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Post #: 14

RE: Surface combat - 10/10/2016 12:51:52 PM

btd64

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Set some of the float plane squadrons on the CA/CL's to night and let them spot. Use naval search mode....GP

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Post #: 15