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Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 1:55:44 PM   
Anthropoid


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I'm gearing up for a PBEM as Japan (first PBEM with AE!). While I do have a _reasonable_ understanding of what is going on here, there are a few subtleties that I remain unclear on. My opponent will no doubt see this thread, so if you have a really golden JFB bit of advice **pssst, PM me . . .

I may have questions about any aspect of Japan (OOB, tactics, strategy, economy, production, research, best ways to make perfect sushi rolls, etc. . . .) thus the open-ended nature of the thread title. I'm also happy for this to become an "up-to-date" general-purpose Japan thread where older threads get linked in so anyone can access the historical wisdom of the forums.

So if you know of some great Japan tips/tricks/pointers/advice type threads, don't hold back! Let 'er rip with the hyperlinks! I'm sure there are a gazillion threads on this sort of topic and of course searching can produce a lot of "ore." But going from ore to refined warheads and propellant can a lengthy process

Specific questions to get things started:

1. RD Air: it seems that RD Air is pretty much "free?" Meaning: whatever level of RD Air you start out with, as long as it is turned ON you will get that for free (no resources of any kind consumed?).
ADDIT: I should note, this is with realistic on, so I cannot change the resource factories to production.

Now obviously, if you want to speed up research, or "repair" any of the existing factories so that they actually contribute progress toward a project . . . then this is not "free:" you will have to expend supply, HI and manpower to start these infrastructure projects, but once the research factory is "running" it is free, no?

2. What are some good "ballparks" to shoot for on level of armaments and vehicles?

3. Refineries: I'm assuming it is better to leave most of them on and change oil to fuel in the hinterlands as well as home islands, and then ship back excess oil stockpiles form key ports to home islands?

ADDIT: I should maybe note a couple of the game settings my opponent and I have agreed on:
Stock scenario one, no mods (I doubt either one of us is opposed to third party plugins like tracker or what not, but I'd prefer to learn the old-fashioned way at least at first . . .)

Realistic R&D
No Withdrawals (a concession to allies for the following)
Non-historical first turn (say good bye to all that fuel and repair facilities at Pearl!! )
both replacements set to +/- 15
other than that I think it is pretty much standard settings

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 10/2/2016 2:00:53 PM >


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The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 3:24:57 PM   
GetAssista

 

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1. Research is free once it is running, unless you have engine bonus. In the latter case 1 engine per 1 research point is consumed
2. depends on your losses. But not stopping aramamnets ever and expanding vehicles to ~150 AFAIR is adviceable. Tracker is a great help in this department
3. No point in shutting off refineries unless you risk fuel spoilage. Fuel is generally more efficient to transport than oil, might be not so in stock when late in the war because oil stockpiles can't be bombed and refineries produce supply which Japan would need direly in 1945

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 3:31:45 PM   
Anachro


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No Withdrawals sounds like a big gimme to the Allies to be honest...and I like playing the Allies so I'm not a JFB by a long shot.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 3:37:49 PM   
Anthropoid


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@GetAsista: Merci Bo Coop!

Re: #2 (Armamaments/Vehicles): so basically, Japan needs about another 3 to 5 grand of conquested/expanded HI capability to be "breaking even" or slightly in the green as far as producing enough HI to keep up with a "competitive" level of end-of-production-line outputs (engines, airframes, guns, vehicles, ships).

Nice. No wonder they call this Allied Edition

No but seriously: brilliant design that I increasingly realize is rather damn good at modeling the strategic challenge facing the Empire of Japan in the fall of 1941: (a) Bow to the Western powers (well, the Yanks mostly I guess) and pull out of China; else (b) face the inevitable slowl grinding to a halt of the industrial war machine in about 9 to 12 months; (c) throw caution to the wind and take bold steps to procure the strategic assets needed to maintain current national policy vis a vis dominance of the Pacific region.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

No Withdrawals sounds like a big gimme to the Allies to be honest...and I like playing the Allies so I'm not a JFB by a long shot.


Based on my limited knowledge, I thought so too. Even so, the response of my wily opponent on this matter (who I think it is safe to say has many orders of magnitude greater knowledge, skills and abilities than myself in nearly all subjects pertinent to masterful play of this game) was "More like a big Gimme to YOU!"

Anyway, I couldn't bear to just play historical first turn . . . I mean why not just load up the one that starts on Dec 8th!? True, the EXACT tactical outcome of the Dec 7 turn can vary a lot but I have far less interest in exploring how things "might have gone" had Japan done everything it did exactly the same right until midnight 7 Dec and THEN was free to (within reasonable historical constraints as modeled by the game) follow alternative operational plans.

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 10/2/2016 6:03:01 PM >


_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

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Post #: 4
RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 3:54:59 PM   
Zenra


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Definitive reference on AE Japanese economy:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2959613&mpage=1&key=Mike%2CSolli

I've been away for a long time but this is still valid, and pure gold.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 4:03:28 PM   
Anachro


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I don't see any problem with ahistorical first turn and withdrawals on. I don't see why having an ahistorical turn necessitates any sort of gimme for the Allied player. Perhaps you can put some restrictions on an ahistorical first turn to prevent super gamey tactics, but overall the strategic situation doesn't change: the Allied player will win...eventually.

The only reason I could see is if such ahistorical start allows you, the JFB, to use gamey tactics to achieve extreme ahistorical options that might change the political calculus of Allied nations. That is, instead of diverting resources from the PTO to the ETO, they might make the decision to be more fair given a bad situation.

< Message edited by Anachro -- 10/2/2016 4:04:04 PM >

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 4:50:26 PM   
Anthropoid


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@Mitchell and Anachro: Thanks guys!

Here is another question. I seem to recall there is a way to manipulate your TFs to "simulate" the "Tokyo Express?" Wherein, TFs tend to arrive at their destination at night, and thus, provoke primarily night engagements? (done primarily with DD escort crews with high night experience?).

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 4:56:45 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

@Mitchell and Anachro: Thanks guys!

Here is another question. I seem to recall there is a way to manipulate your TFs to "simulate" the "Tokyo Express?" Wherein, TFs tend to arrive at their destination at night, and thus, provoke primarily night engagements? (done primarily with DD escort crews with high night experience?).

Found an older thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2282335

I think it works when you use the CAs, CLs and the DDs as part of a Fast Transport mission, not Surface Combat. Bombardment missions should try to arrive at the target during the night phase; also depends on the usual factors like command ratings of the TF commander, etc.

In some of my cases I was able to extract some guys from the Solomons via Fast Transport from Shortlands and even Rabaul.

Klink, Oberst

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 4:58:45 PM   
Anachro


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The only way I know to ensure night arrival is to manually manipulate waypoints to ensure a night arrival. Would be nice to have an automatic option.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 5:02:15 PM   
Anthropoid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

@Mitchell and Anachro: Thanks guys!

Here is another question. I seem to recall there is a way to manipulate your TFs to "simulate" the "Tokyo Express?" Wherein, TFs tend to arrive at their destination at night, and thus, provoke primarily night engagements? (done primarily with DD escort crews with high night experience?).

Found an older thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2282335

I think it works when you use the CAs, CLs and the DDs as part of a Fast Transport mission, not Surface Combat. Bombardment missions should try to arrive at the target during the night phase; also depends on the usual factors like command ratings of the TF commander, etc.

In some of my cases I was able to extract some guys from the Solomons via Fast Transport from Shortlands and even Rabaul.

Klink, Oberst


Thanks Colonel!! Lots of reading to do. My opponent might have to wait a few more days for turn one


_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

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Post #: 10
RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 6:06:29 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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Withdrawals off has some advantages for you.
You keep some garison units and the Thai army. Ok not a biggie but here it comes.
There will be no naval avitation exodus in 1944 which means that you can field at least a 1000 or so more combat aircraft.
You will also keep alot of recon squadrons that dissapear in 1943.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 6:21:46 PM   
Anthropoid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Withdrawals off has some advantages for you.
You keep some garison units and the Thai army. Ok not a biggie but here it comes.
There will be no naval avitation exodus in 1944 which means that you can field at least a 1000 or so more combat aircraft.
You will also keep alot of recon squadrons that dissapear in 1943.


So if I survive that long, the concession balances out to quid pro quo!

Fair enough.

Arguably the same is true for Non-Historical Start. I did start up one PBEM in AE a year or more ago, and pulled a stunt that my opponent found "gamey." I soon realized I was just not in a RL situation to live up to a "WitP PBEM Lifestyle" at that point, so I "surrendered" the match.

I advocated for the "Non-Historical Start" setting as allies for the simple reason I wanted to test a little hypothesis: what would have transpired on Dec 7, 1941 had the bulk of the Pearl assets "evacuated." I doubt there is much historical basis to consider this alternative as being a very serious one, but I have heard some "historical commentators" mention it as a "if the U.S. had only evacuated Pearl . . ." type of argument . . . I suppose it is conceivable there may have been some random civilian vessel in the vicinity of KBs course which could have provided a sufficient basis for Kimmel to give the order to embark the ships . . .

My opponent of course did not know WHY I wanted to play with this game setting, and he launched the standard KB attack on Pearl.

With most of the ships on the move, bombers evacuated and fighters either on alert or moved out of the way (and this even with Surprise ON) his KB attack was pretty indecisive. In fact, I think it might have been fairly badly mauled by CAP . . . still he did then invade and occupy Midway so it didn't seem to slow him down that much.

ADDIT: so here are a couple more questions for JFB:

What would you say is the single most important use of PP for Japan?

For some reason I seem to have a fetish for putting the "perfect commander" into every single ship and wind up spending a lot there. In playing WPO and WitP over the years, I made repeated anecdotal observations that a TF with the "right" commander, and comprising ships with mostly the "right" commanders could make a big difference in whether the TF did what you wanted it to do and distinguished themselves with excellent performance or not. Nothing worse than an aggressive naval expert commanding a cargo TF!

On the other hand: Manchukuo (or more precisely "Northwest Control Zone") I'm assuming that, any notable advances in China depend in large part on releasing as many of these restricted LCUs to new commands as possible?

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 10/2/2016 6:34:55 PM >


_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 7:09:29 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


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Important other uses of PPs are buying out divisions or units that allow you to form them. Also Engineers, Base Forces and AA.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 7:58:31 PM   
MakeeLearn


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Ive only played as the Allies. Playing as Japan does seem like it is a MUCH different game to learn.

Good info on the night transports. As Allies '42, Iam starting to group my small number of destroyer transports and my Marine Raiders along with my Australian commandos into a Rapid Deployment Force.

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 8:14:13 PM   
Anthropoid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Important other uses of PPs are buying out divisions or units that allow you to form them. Also Engineers, Base Forces and AA.

quote:

units that allow you to form them


So you can "assemble" new divisions somehow? I am not familiar with that. Could you point to a keyword I might find in the manual? So far no luck with "organization" or "build."

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 9:13:36 PM   
BBfanboy


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Below is a screenshot of an IJA unit that can combine with others to form a division. Note the circled button for OOB - click on it and it will show you the other units that can combine with it to form the division. All units have to have the same HQ, be in the same location and have the same types of equipment (e.g. another brigade in the division should have the same kind of AA gun in the same device slot)

You can see which units are part of a larger unit by clicking the little button with the red flag at the top of your game screen. The sub-units have an asterisk * after their name to show they are part of a larger formation.






Attachment (1)

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/2/2016 9:16:04 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

No Withdrawals sounds like a big gimme to the Allies to be honest...and I like playing the Allies so I'm not a JFB by a long shot.

I thought No Withdrawals was a Catholic Church policy ....

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/4/2016 3:57:28 AM   
rustysi


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quote:

1. RD Air: it seems that RD Air is pretty much "free?" Meaning: whatever level of RD Air you start out with, as long as it is turned ON you will get that for free (no resources of any kind consumed?).
ADDIT: I should note, this is with realistic on, so I cannot change the resource factories to production.

Now obviously, if you want to speed up research, or "repair" any of the existing factories so that they actually contribute progress toward a project . . . then this is not "free:" you will have to expend supply, HI and manpower to start these infrastructure projects, but once the research factory is "running" it is free, no?


OK, first thing here, and just to make sure you are clear on this, there is a cost you may not be considering. When you expand your R&D 'factory' you will expend supply, HI and manpower. Now each of the 'factories' start at 0/something, with 0/30 being 'optimum', at this point you will expend an additional 1k supply for every R&D point you repair and the 'factory' will not give you an R&D boost 'til its completely repaired. In addition, to 'repair' one point of R&D the host base must have at least 10k supply available. So there're more costs than the 'surface' shows.

To be sure some of the R&D factories have some numbers already repaired, but not many, and they may not be A/C you want. Also you don't state whether you're playing PDU ON or OFF. PDU ON makes the game easier IMHO simply because I don't have to check and see which A/C I need to produce or not. It also lets me tailor my R&D production better than otherwise. Its not carte blanche, in that you can convert any air group to anything you desire, but it is much more flexible than PDU OFF.

OK for anything else I'll have to return later, running outta time for tonight. To check more later.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 10/4/2016 3:58:53 AM >


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RE: Japan Questions - 10/4/2016 4:13:32 AM   
Anthropoid


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Ah thanks guys. Those points about the (a) reformable units and the (b) 'hidden' costs of R&D are pretty dang critical!

First turn is in the hands of my opponent. I just might have to demarcate this as a 'pseudo-AAR,' though I cannot commit to anything of any real 'narrative' value . . . updates about how things are unfolding the steps I've taken and what my plans are are doable (with a screen cap here and there). But the high-quality AARs I see many guys produce is something I've found to be too time-consuming.

Once I let him know this thread is 'off-limits' tomorrow, I'll fill ya in on my plans and the results of the opening turn.

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/4/2016 4:14:40 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Withdrawals off has some advantages for you.
You keep some garison units and the Thai army. Ok not a biggie but here it comes.
There will be no naval avitation exodus in 1944 which means that you can field at least a 1000 or so more combat aircraft.
You will also keep alot of recon squadrons that dissapear in 1943.

True, but the allies have hundreds of groups that are scheduled to withdraw. If they don't, yikes. I've never turned it off to see what happens on the allied side, but I would be quite worried....

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RE: Japan Questions - 10/4/2016 5:16:30 PM   
Anthropoid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Withdrawals off has some advantages for you.
You keep some garison units and the Thai army. Ok not a biggie but here it comes.
There will be no naval avitation exodus in 1944 which means that you can field at least a 1000 or so more combat aircraft.
You will also keep alot of recon squadrons that dissapear in 1943.

True, but the allies have hundreds of groups that are scheduled to withdraw. If they don't, yikes. I've never turned it off to see what happens on the allied side, but I would be quite worried....


Ah, to me, you win some you lose some! The fun is in the deepening understanding of the complex emergent "ecological" dynamics of the playing field!

So I let my opponent (who I think RARELY comes here anymore anyway) know that he is VERBOTTEN! from this thread, so I can kinda use this as a "pseudo-AAR" to get valuable advice from those JFB among you who are gracious enough to provide it The fact my opponent is unnamed adds an additional level of crypsis to the whole thing!

So I read with great interest and admiration Quixote's "Road Less Traveled" thread and more-or-less this is what I'm striving for in this match.

I sent KB and three other "magic TF" to Malaya area (actually five in total):

1. KB lurking more or less 7 hexes west of Singers: I believe I had all A6M2s set to escort at 14k max range 7 (as for all carrier flights, the inherent max for D3A1) and with 15% CAP (whatever the default is, that saved KB from a couple random attacks from Singers). Vals and Kates were all set to 14K naval attack with Vals at Airfield alternate and Kates at Port alternate I believe.

Unfortuantely Force Z vanished so KB did not achieve its full effect here, however lots of the support ships are mangled and fleeing toward Batavia and they are probably goners for next turn.

2. Palembang inv (and THANKFULLY! he moved the two light cruisers out of there so those guys were able to land without getting mauled). He might well mess me up here he he appreciates that (which he probably does) . . . [probably should have sent a bit more firepower down with this TF]

3 & 4. Mersing inv 1 & 2 [these came from two different departure ports if memory serves] = should be more than enough to make a shock and awe charge on Johore within a few days. In fact, I'm already setting them up to bombard/shock/pursue and hopefully I'll get lucky with 2:1 odds or maybe even a bit better. THANKFULLY! my opponent did NOT send Force Z on a foray along the northeastern Malaya coast otherwise both those invasion forces would've probably been toast as the largest ship any of them had was just about a light cruiser. Had he done that the result would have been very different (and yes I placed ZERO house rules on his opening moves, house rules are lame . . . easy for me to say at this juncture! ). Had he taken risk with his precious warships, then my precious invasion fleet would have been wiped out I'm quite confident of that, BUT his precious warships would likely also have been wiped out . . . the net effect would have been far worse for me than for him, as it would have created a delay of weeks or months in the conquest of Malaya and time is NOT on the Japanese side (which is why Pearl is less appealing than the Straits of Malacca in my opinion).

5. Kota Bharu inv: pretty close to the default composition, enough to be able to push inland pretty fast I hope. All the Air Groups in IndoChina and Thailand operated in support of the actions summarized by 1 through 5.

There are of course several more "non-magic" TF following up on these opening five Magic ones in the Singers operational area . . .

6. PI: my unorthodox magic moves are probably less immediately risky but more emergently risky here:
A. Batangas Inv, maybe 100 AV? some Eng, AA and Arty in the mix. If he makes a push on this they could be goners, but, I'm hoping that the overall shape of this invasion will obviate his intentions to do that . . .
B. Ibas Inv, similar compostion.
C. Catanabuan Paradrop: base captured. One more parachute regiment to drop in the next few turns . . .

I _think_ that was it as far as magic invasion forces in PI. There are of course several TF following on the heels of these guys too . . .

Elsewhere:
7. Central Pacific: I'm going to neglect Wake and Midway for the time being and make a dash on the Mindanao and Balikpapan/Kendarri areas with the various non-magic TF down in that vast region of ocean dotted with little islands . . .

8. China: massive strategic transit of LCUs, leaving _only just enough_ in the unruly hexes to keep them all garrisoned. Will adjust to get these values "exactly" at the required level over the next few turns, but for now they are all at least 10 or 15 in excess, some 40 in excess as a result of limitations in dividing units. Virtually all arty and AA are heading for Chengting, quite a few ENG as well, (those with some AV are mostly going to Fusan to transform it into the main logistics hub in favor of Port Arthur). I've sent as many AV-packing LCUs as I can toward Chengting, leaving (if my calculations are correct) only around 8200 inside the NW Control Zone . . . hopefully I didn't miscalcualte there. My intent is to blitzkrieg China and figure the lionshare of my PP expenditures will be in unlocking the various restricted units from this area of the game map to engage in offensive ops deep into China.

QUESTION: are there gambits the Japanese player can engage in to try to "generate more PP??" I don't think it works that way but thought it worth asking . . .

As far as the economy, I guess the overall topline synthesis would be: damn the torpeodes! full speed ahead! Having never even played as Jap against AI, I'm probably on thin ice here but ah well! The fun is the hunt!

I expended every single Manpower point I had to upgrade the HI in my core industrial bases (mostly all Home Island). All aircraft production was changed to the following:
3 A6M2 Zero
3 Ki-43-Ic Oscar
2 B5N2 Kate
2 D3A1 Val
1 E13A1 Jake
2 G4M1 Betty
2 H6K4 Mavis
1 Ki-1s-II Babs
2 Ki-21-IIa Sally
1 Ki-56 Thalia

If my calculations are correct this amounts to 126 Nak 35; 8 Mits 31; 108 Mits 32; and 125 Mits 33 engines required. Engine factories are configured accordingly.

With the various drains on HI turned down a bit (aircraft and engines at full blast, and armaments vehicles not much lowered) I'm about 3 to 5 k in the hole on HI for now: must conquest more Industrial centers pronto!!

I'm probably gonna run out of supply in a matter of months if I fail to "harvest" more . . . The oil reserve seems more forgiving but even there, my current "full steam ahead" posture has probably reduced sustainability by half of what it actually was for Japan on 7 Dec 1941.

Research: I basically just turned ON the ones that were already repaired. I'm not planning for this contest to last much beyond Fall 1942. I will have either achieved far better success than Japan did by that time, or I'll be wrecked. Will still be interesting if the result lands somewhere in between those two (and it will be fun to carry on to the bitter end in those "less decided" circumstances), but one of the two extremes are the two most anticipated short-term outcomes of my strategy at the outset: Victory or Death!

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 10/4/2016 5:22:59 PM >


_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 21
RE: Japan Questions - 10/4/2016 5:30:16 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

1. Research is free once it is running, unless you have engine bonus. In the latter case 1 engine per 1 research point is consumed
2. depends on your losses. But not stopping aramamnets ever and expanding vehicles to ~150 AFAIR is adviceable. Tracker is a great help in this department
3. No point in shutting off refineries unless you risk fuel spoilage. Fuel is generally more efficient to transport than oil, might be not so in stock when late in the war because oil stockpiles can't be bombed and refineries produce supply which Japan would need direly in 1945



You want to go higher than 150, even in Scen 1, or you won't be able to fill out units that arrive in 1942 when you need them most. I recommend at least 200, if not 250.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 22
RE: Japan Questions - 10/4/2016 6:22:28 PM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

1. Research is free once it is running, unless you have engine bonus. In the latter case 1 engine per 1 research point is consumed
2. depends on your losses. But not stopping aramamnets ever and expanding vehicles to ~150 AFAIR is adviceable. Tracker is a great help in this department
3. No point in shutting off refineries unless you risk fuel spoilage. Fuel is generally more efficient to transport than oil, might be not so in stock when late in the war because oil stockpiles can't be bombed and refineries produce supply which Japan would need direly in 1945



You want to go higher than 150, even in Scen 1, or you won't be able to fill out units that arrive in 1942 when you need them most. I recommend at least 200, if not 250.


Good to know thanks Lokasenna.


_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 23
RE: Japan Questions - 10/5/2016 12:13:51 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
Haven't read entire thread. Don't know if others have answered, just giving you what I do.

quote:

2. What are some good "ballparks" to shoot for on level of armaments and vehicles?


Leave armaments alone, no need to increase IMHO. I usually get my stockpile up to 150k and turn most off for a while, most here are against something like this. Now I know in mid-late '43 Japan gets lots of ground forces, but here's my take. Sometime in '42 I will hit my target and I turn off most armaments to build up my HI stockpile. HI is my 'cash', once spent I can't get it back, and I think I'll need it for all those shinny new planes I'll be building by '44. IRL Japan produced over 1000 fighters a month in '44. I would probably turn the armaments back on somewhere around April-June '43, but that's me. YMMV.

Vehicles I take up to 200, YMMV. I attempt, but never have achieved a 50K bankroll. That's mostly because I failed to turn off upgrades to certain units. When it comes to Japan and vehicles, sometime around May/June you'll get a glut of HQ's that may have a lot of vehicle support devices, this alone could drain your vehicle pool. In addition to that you have a new tank that is available around that time. Both of these will absolutely drain your vehicle pool. The solution is pretty simple, turn off replacements to your HQ's that arrive with largely drained vehicle devices, and set your armor to no upgrade. At that point you can decide what to replace and/or upgrade. Remember each vehicle bought costs 1 vehicle point and 1 manpower point x "the load cost" of the vehicle. A Type 95 light tank will cost 10 vehicle points and 10 manpower points. So a regiment of light tanks (usually 45 IIRC) will eat up 450 vehicle and manpower points. Don't worry about manpower Japan has enough, but even at 200 points production per day that's 2.5 days worth for that one small regi. There are others with more and heavier tanks. Factor in other requirements for vehicles and it can be difficult to maintain a pool.

quote:

3. Refineries: I'm assuming it is better to leave most of them on and change oil to fuel in the hinterlands as well as home islands, and then ship back excess oil stockpiles form key ports to home islands?


You have a glut of refineries in the HI and a dearth of oil. Don't repair refineries that you capture, just ship the oil to the HI. You'll probably always have more refineries than oil anyway.

quote:

What would you say is the single most important use of PP for Japan?


Early on its buy divisions, divisions, divisions. Now as you know this is not easy as they cost around 1800 points and you get 50/day, do the math. Manchukuo has them in spades, just watch your garrison requirements and don't drain it to the absolute minimum. Look for the highest experience units with a good artillery component, they'll perform best against the Western Allies. The 14th ID I think (IIRC) should be your first.

As for combining divisions, Japan starts with many broken down. There are two in Manchukuo, the 1st, and the 8th. The 8th is a nice unit and if you wait 'til the 4th brigade fills up its mortar complement the combined unit will have 2 dozen of these added to its artillery base. The unit will however cost in the neighborhood of 2200 PP's if you do this so its your choice. There are two with regis that are separated from the parent and you would have to ship them in to get the whole unit. Also the 5th and the 18th will be broken down in Malaya when they finish landing, you could leave them that way until ready to assault Singers. There're also a number of brigades in China that can combine immediately and some later when their other half arrive as reinforcements. These are generally poorly equipped units and combining or not I think is a personal choice, as they're largely only good as garrisons. Full divisions generally fight better than their component units, but note the leader once they're combined. Quite often his 'land' number will be poor.

OTOH splitting units can be advantageous, especially in China. Japan gets bunches of small nationalist Chinese units. I will break these into components in order to make them fit the garrison requirements better.

As usual the above is JMHO, and I'm often one to go against convention or the grain if you will. Hope it at least gives you some food for thought.



_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 24
RE: Japan Questions - 10/5/2016 12:24:35 AM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline
Looking forward to becoming a competent Japanese player. Always wanted to but I was just never in a position to sit down and start digesting this enormous and complex game until recently; and of course the best way to learn is by doing, and making those painful mistakes!

I appreciate all your input folks

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 25
RE: Japan Questions - 10/5/2016 12:47:58 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

2. What are some good "ballparks" to shoot for on level of armaments and vehicles?


Leave armaments alone, no need to increase IMHO. I usually get my stockpile up to 150k and turn most off for a while, most here are against something like this.


It's actually a good idea, but only very rough. Instead, I recommend using Tracker to make sure your trend line is always at least 100K over your need.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Now I know in mid-late '43 Japan gets lots of ground forces, but here's my take. Sometime in '42 I will hit my target and I turn off most armaments to build up my HI stockpile. HI is my 'cash', once spent I can't get it back, and I think I'll need it for all those shinny new planes I'll be building by '44. IRL Japan produced over 1000 fighters a month in '44. I would probably turn the armaments back on somewhere around April-June '43, but that's me. YMMV.

This is the part I'd disagree with. I'd also say that HI isn't your cash - supplies are your cash in the bank. It's how you actually get units onto the board. HI is more like...your credit rating. Sort of. Or your non-cash assets, perhaps. If we were going with a cash analogy.

Yes, ARM/VEH are the most expensive things to make - it costs more raw HI to make a tank (72+) than a single engine plane (36). But, at the risk of breaking a small bit of opsec, HI stockpile isn't going to turn out to be your breaking point. In my game I'm rocking "only" 2.75M so far in June 1944, and only trending about 2600-2700 per day (I've made up to 4000 per day at times, but my aircraft production has ramped up a little bit and I've turned some ARM back on as well). My ARM trend is 175K over my need, but I'm going to keep stockpiling that for a while. I'd also rather stockpile airframes on the front end, while my factories aren't at risk at all, than on the back end. I'm also looking at probably being able to defend the HI from any serious air raids for at least another year, at which point I only have 8-9 months to go. All of this is to say that you don't need to stockpile HI as the end-all, be-all. Also, you should stockpile ARM/VEH before any of the factories get bombed out. If you don't have the factories, you can't make the device - but if you have ARM/VEH in the pools, you can.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Vehicles I take up to 200, YMMV. I attempt, but never have achieved a 50K bankroll.


I still recommend 250. I've turned mine back to 225 at this point as I've received most of my vehicle reinforcements by now. Looking back at my VEH pool history, I've definitely been as high as 65K in the bank and I want to say as high as 83K or so (before an enormous LCU Spawnday). It takes a while to get to that point, though. Your recommendation of turning off replacements on HQs and such is not a bad one, but I think by May 1942 you should have enough VEH production to not only keep pace with upgrades/replacements but begin to stockpile for later in the war.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

3. Refineries: I'm assuming it is better to leave most of them on and change oil to fuel in the hinterlands as well as home islands, and then ship back excess oil stockpiles form key ports to home islands?


You have a glut of refineries in the HI and a dearth of oil. Don't repair refineries that you capture, just ship the oil to the HI. You'll probably always have more refineries than oil anyway.


Depending on the situation, I might advocate for repairing some refinery at Palembang for the following reasons:
1) You'll be challenged to ship everything out through Palembang directly. This even includes supplies, assuming the Refinery is at or near starting capacity and you are not playing a mod that eliminates Refinery supply production.
2) It is difficult to ship Oil out of other ports on Sumatra (remember that each point of Oil at a base increases its ability to load oil on a per-ship basis at a port).
3) It is not as difficult to ship Fuel or Supplies out of other ports because you can more easily increase the demand for them (either via the Supply requested spinner on the base screen, or basing ships/TFs at the port).
4) You are going to want a budget of "operating fuel" in the area - potentially more than Balikpapan, Tarakan, Miri, and Java can provide.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

What would you say is the single most important use of PP for Japan?


Early on its buy divisions, divisions, divisions. Now as you know this is not easy as they cost around 1800 points and you get 50/day, do the math. Manchukuo has them in spades, just watch your garrison requirements and don't drain it to the absolute minimum. Look for the highest experience units with a good artillery component, they'll perform best against the Western Allies. The 14th ID I think (IIRC) should be your first.

As for combining divisions, Japan starts with many broken down. There are two in Manchukuo, the 1st, and the 8th. The 8th is a nice unit and if you wait 'til the 4th brigade fills up its mortar complement the combined unit will have 2 dozen of these added to its artillery base. The unit will however cost in the neighborhood of 2200 PP's if you do this so its your choice. There are two with regis that are separated from the parent and you would have to ship them in to get the whole unit. Also the 5th and the 18th will be broken down in Malaya when they finish landing, you could leave them that way until ready to assault Singers. There're also a number of brigades in China that can combine immediately and some later when their other half arrive as reinforcements. These are generally poorly equipped units and combining or not I think is a personal choice, as they're largely only good as garrisons. Full divisions generally fight better than their component units, but note the leader once they're combined. Quite often his 'land' number will be poor.

OTOH splitting units can be advantageous, especially in China. Japan gets bunches of small nationalist Chinese units. I will break these into components in order to make them fit the garrison requirements better.

As usual the above is JMHO, and I'm often one to go against convention or the grain if you will. Hope it at least gives you some food for thought.



Yes, jumble your RGC and other such units in China around to meet the minimum garrison requirements. These bases are pretty much never going to be vulnerable to an Allied offensive, so defending them with more than the minimum garrison is not important. There are also many with 120, 180, 210, and 320 AV requirements - try to shuffle your units such that you free up the bigger ones to combine into divisions so that you can use those elsewhere.

Otherwise... granted I'm playing no PPs to cross borders in my game, but I'm sitting on almost 12K PPs in 6/44. There just isn't much use for them as most units arrive with decent COs, the IJN CO pool is actually rather sparse for some ship types, and so forth.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 26
RE: Japan Questions - 10/5/2016 1:20:11 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

1) You'll be challenged to ship everything out through Palembang directly.


This is the one thing that I will absolutely disagree with you on, as I've done it. To include Sumatra's resources. Now granted it all goes to Singers, but I use small slow TK's and xAKL's as shuttles. Lots of 'em. You know those Std-c xAK's that convert to TK's, well most of 'em fit real well right here. Granted it takes a few months to eliminate the stockpile at the place, but its doable. TBH I take Medan's(?) fuel/oil and the other little oil producer close to Singers out from those spots directly. Once started its like a well run train line. I guess its just a habit left over from Railroad Tycoon.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 10/5/2016 1:22:29 AM >


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 27
RE: Japan Questions - 10/5/2016 1:24:54 AM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline
I do want to get Tracker running but right now I'm getting that silly "can't run a 32-bit app on a 64-bit rig" error message, so I need to sort that out.

ADDIT: I get the impression a lot of JFB use a "small hop" system in which cargo TF take care of the Hinterland--->to Osaka transit in small sections. Say for example: Palembang -> Sing -> Cam Ranh -> Takao -> Home Islands

I haven't thought it through very well, but I have to say, my initial inclnation is to do it very differently:

Hinterland base -> Osaka (else Hiroshima or one of the other size 10s)

Perhaps this is just not tenable?

I look at it like this: where are subs most likely to strike? The open sea, near a continental shelf and along a predictable travel route.

What does a sub captain want to see? A routine medium or large TF that goes back and forth fairly frequently between two ports like a train schedule. Get one or more boats into position: harvest.

My inclination is to use small TF comprising at most 3 merchant men (preferable two), and each with only 1 escort, and send every single one of them on some crazy random journey, essentially trying to NEVER repeat the same path or periodicity for any resource transit.

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 10/5/2016 1:36:58 AM >


_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 28
RE: Japan Questions - 10/5/2016 1:55:01 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

My inclination is to use small TF comprising at most 3 merchant men (preferable two), and each with only 1 escort, and send every single one of them on some crazy random journey, essentially trying to NEVER repeat the same path or periodicity for any resource transit.


Pretty much what Japan did IRL. Didn't work, now it may in the game.

Or, you can look at it this way. Large well escorted convoys along routes that are under air cover, which have prowling ASW patrols.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 29
RE: Japan Questions - 10/5/2016 2:27:16 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

My inclination is to use small TF comprising at most 3 merchant men (preferable two), and each with only 1 escort, and send every single one of them on some crazy random journey, essentially trying to NEVER repeat the same path or periodicity for any resource transit.


Pretty much what Japan did IRL. Didn't work, now it may in the game.

Or, you can look at it this way. Large well escorted convoys along routes that are under air cover, which have prowling ASW patrols.


I have better success using other methods, which I don't really want to detail here at the moment.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 30
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