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Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/11/2016 4:05:53 AM

cns180784

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Just bought this and the other two live scenarios and it looks really good after reading the side briefing for Russia. But i just noticed the weather...clear sky with very light rain. Bit strange, surely this is an error?

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/11/2016 6:45:23 AM

Dimitris

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For Syria?

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/11/2016 3:15:30 PM

ColonelMolerat

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I think the complaint is that for light rain, there needs to be clouds (as opposed to a clear sky).

I took the weather description to mean that the sky was clear enough not to affect line of sight, etc, but with enough clouds for very light rain.

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/11/2016 8:02:25 PM

Gunner98

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When I designed it I had a haze, mist but clear sky in mind. I think that this combo was the best match.

B

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/11/2016 11:34:08 PM

cns180784

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColonelMolerat

I think the complaint is that for light rain, there needs to be clouds (as opposed to a clear sky).

I took the weather description to mean that the sky was clear enough not to affect line of sight, etc, but with enough clouds for very light rain.

Glad you noticed it Colonel, i thought i was going mad like i was seeing things lol. Not exactly a major issue but still a bit weird having rain with no clouds. I see what you're saying Gunner it would be good if hazy mist could be added to the games' weather but no major issue...still enough different types of weather in the game.

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/12/2016 12:35:09 AM

mikmykWS

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Yeah its our fault.

Mike

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/12/2016 2:18:05 PM

ColonelMolerat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

When I designed it I had a haze, mist but clear sky in mind. I think that this combo was the best match.

B

Ah, if I remember correctly, a haze/mist is mentioned in the mission description too.

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/12/2016 9:52:57 PM

cns180784

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColonelMolerat

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

When I designed it I had a haze, mist but clear sky in mind. I think that this combo was the best match.

B

Ah, if I remember correctly, a haze/mist is mentioned in the mission description too.

Yea it is, and the very light rain doesnt prevent the use of LGB's so its a good match for haze/mist. I've just started playing the scenario now, just set up my sea control missions with my two subs (playing as the ruskies) and a few ASW missions with the Ka-27 onboard the cruiser and the Il-38.
I have my intel gathering ship and missile boat patrolling E/NE and N of Cyprus with my cruiser and its ASW chopper patrolling the Syrian coast searching for Turkish subs. In the briefing it states theres' at least one Turkish sub patrolling off Syria with an unknown number of other subs that are Turkish or could be Coalition. The idea for my naval units for now is to find out where exactly the Turks/Coalition forces at sea are in case things go hot with them. Next i'll set up ELINT surveillance, deploy my drones i'm thinking the first one thats ready shall recce over the med to build up a picture there then the rest to recce over Syria. Though i'm wondering if theres' any point of deploying them over Syria as i know where all my possible targets are.
Last thing to do will be to decide on whether to set up CAP's now with my Su-30's and 35's or just leave them till if any hostilities break out with the Turks/Coalition, meanwhile i'll scan the skies with my Flat Face E, a modern medium ranged 3D air search radar and leave all other radars off (dont want them to know where my S-400 is).

I said that was the last thing to do but its not...lol i then need to decide on what targets to strike with my strike a/c. I love this game.

Out of interest Colonel how did you start this scenario? (assuming you've played it and you've played as the Russians) just please dont tell me any spoilers lol

< Message edited by cns180784 -- 10/12/2016 9:54:39 PM >

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/13/2016 1:58:15 AM

ColonelMolerat

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Oooh, I can't remember right now - (it's getting a little late). I may forget some details.

I first played as the Turks, so I had some 'spoilers' from playing things on their side. When playing both sides, I decided to play things as passively as possible - avoid escalating as much as possible.

I think I was much less organised than you. I had my ships do a very generic patrol - not hunting anything, just protecting themselves and floating about with normal ASW shields. I have a feeling being so laid-back came back to bite me!

I used my drone to scout out potential targets - flying a course over everything I was thinking about striking, with the intention that if it got shot down, I'd know where to hit first. If I remember correctly, it was so slow the situation had escalated before it was much use.

My planes flew standard barrier patrols, in the air but not too confrontational. I think I used some to strike at key targets, but quite tentatively - one thing at a time, with some planes in the air, but a distance back, in case things got hot.

I think I preferred playing as the Turkish forces because...

MINOR SPOILER IN NEXT POST...

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/13/2016 2:02:14 AM

ColonelMolerat

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When things got hot (pretty quickly), this mission felt like a big demonstration of the power of the S-400! Whatever mistakes I made didn't seem to matter, because the S-400 just blasted everything out of the sky! That thing was amazing!

I think I won the mission largely by not messing up too much. I just played it fairly cautiously and let my S-400 wipe the skies clean. My main fear was it running out of ammo. It would probably be more interesting if I experimented a bit more, though.

Playing as the Turkish forces, I had to plan the whole mission around this terrifying enemy - but I do generally prefer playing the weaker force.

I need to return to this mission! I was planning to play it next anyway, after the one I'm playing now, but you've made me much more eager!

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/13/2016 3:44:48 AM

cns180784

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Hahaha- i had a feeling you'd go on about the S-400. I've been experimenting with that in the editor for at least the last two hours. Trying to get Rafales...F-16's...typhoons and F-22's to succesfully be able to deliver it some ordnance but no can do. I set up a Typhoon an AsuW ground mission where the S-400 is and had it fly over land the whole way, terrain following. The Typhoon doesnt have TFR and can only fly at 1,000ft AGL but the S-400 didnt detect it till it was about 16nm away due to it flying low and there being mountains, the Typhoon approached from the NE starting off just outide the max range of the S-400's search radar.

I was watching the Typhoon getting closer to the S-400 after it defended against 3 missiles i was like COME ON SON, YOU CAN DO IT! it had i think 6 Mk13 1,000lb GPB's but..at about something like 12nm out the 4th SAM from the S-400 hit home...oh well. That S-400 is an absolute beast. I'd say out of those a/c the Typhoon had the best chance due to the towed decoys it has which managed to spoof i think 2 of the S-400 missiles but to no avail.

I tried auto evasion and without, same results no a/c could get their ordnance off. Exception was a Rafale detected and classified the S-400 with its ELINT and got off its SCALP. But what happened? well i allowed it A/G strafing with guns and the Rafale got shot down before it could get anywhere near strafing the S-400 and the SCALP was blown out the sky too. Bloody Russians and their S-400...they dont mess about.

< Message edited by cns180784 -- 10/13/2016 3:52:07 AM >

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/13/2016 1:07:44 PM

ColonelMolerat

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Oddly, I don't remember having huge difficulty against it in the scenario - it could keep the entire skies clear of planes going about their business (strikes on other targets, dogfights, etc) - it was absolutely brilliant at area control, but when I attacked it directly it was less successful - since there's only one S-400, I could overwhelm it with lots of long-range missiles and cannon-fodder planes carrying dumb bombs. Maybe I just got lucky - I really do need to play the scenario again!

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/13/2016 11:22:19 PM

cns180784

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColonelMolerat

Oddly, I don't remember having huge difficulty against it in the scenario - it could keep the entire skies clear of planes going about their business (strikes on other targets, dogfights, etc) - it was absolutely brilliant at area control, but when I attacked it directly it was less successful - since there's only one S-400, I could overwhelm it with lots of long-range missiles and cannon-fodder planes carrying dumb bombs. Maybe I just got lucky - I really do need to play the scenario again!

Well thats the catch with taking out that S-400 is you have to dedicate quite a strike force to take it out but i'm guessing you managed to do that whilst still being able to strike your objectives.

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/15/2016 11:04:55 PM

FoxZz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cns180784

Hahaha- i had a feeling you'd go on about the S-400. I've been experimenting with that in the editor for at least the last two hours. Trying to get Rafales...F-16's...typhoons and F-22's to succesfully be able to deliver it some ordnance but no can do. I set up a Typhoon an AsuW ground mission where the S-400 is and had it fly over land the whole way, terrain following. The Typhoon doesnt have TFR and can only fly at 1,000ft AGL but the S-400 didnt detect it till it was about 16nm away due to it flying low and there being mountains, the Typhoon approached from the NE starting off just outide the max range of the S-400's search radar.

I was watching the Typhoon getting closer to the S-400 after it defended against 3 missiles i was like COME ON SON, YOU CAN DO IT! it had i think 6 Mk13 1,000lb GPB's but..at about something like 12nm out the 4th SAM from the S-400 hit home...oh well. That S-400 is an absolute beast. I'd say out of those a/c the Typhoon had the best chance due to the towed decoys it has which managed to spoof i think 2 of the S-400 missiles but to no avail.

I tried auto evasion and without, same results no a/c could get their ordnance off. Exception was a Rafale detected and classified the S-400 with its ELINT and got off its SCALP. But what happened? well i allowed it A/G strafing with guns and the Rafale got shot down before it could get anywhere near strafing the S-400 and the SCALP was blown out the sky too. Bloody Russians and their S-400...they dont mess about.

Try with the AASM bombs for the Rafale, with 6 bombs per planes, in terrain following, you can manage to overload the S400 if you send enough planes.

(in reply to cns180784)

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/19/2016 1:36:05 AM

ColonelMolerat

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I've just had another play through of Old Grudges Never Die... I've been writing it up as I go along, so can post a detailed AAR once I've had some sleep...

That S-400 took out 15 planes of a 16-plane strike group before a lucky missile hit disabled it.

Worth the cost..........?

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/19/2016 2:13:39 AM

cns180784

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16 ship strike group targeting just the S-400? i'm amazed you've just played it all through again. I always take my time when playing scenarios and try and look more at the details of units and stuff. I've still got about 20 hours of the scenario left but almost all my first ready strike a/c have flown a sortie so have to stand down for 6 hours. So far lost an Mi-24N to a MANPAD, but the only ground targets left now are 6 FSA controlled oil wells (with FSA troops on the ground i presume- havent looked for them yet), concentrations of ISIS troops with sa-16's in the Ar Raqqah area (destroyed the bridge but no ISIS troops) and thats it.

I thought about intercepting some Turkish F-4's that started bombing the Kurds but decided not to, not really wanting an escalation and in the end they only caused one company some casualties. Something strange happened though a bit later after that. A message of an event popped up saying something about the Russians committing an hostile act so then i presumed that the Turks had turned hostile towards us- but they hadnt. I knew this because a Turkish frigate was in range to start firing at my intel gathering ship but it didnt. I think part of the message said that the event failed a probability check so must have been why they didnt turn hostile.
But this is the strange thing, i think the Americans thought hostilities had actually broke out between us and the Turks and i then got a message from them. It said they were to carry out CAP's over Syria to clear the airspace with the intention to de-escalate the hostilities, which i ignored.
I had a flight of two Su-25's flying back to base from a strike mission and saw two a/c take off from Incirlik and they got up to afterburner speed. Thought that's not right...they were ID'd as American F-15C's and the one fired at one of my Su-25's. This was observed so it was declared hostile and my S-400 opened up. Took 9 missiles to down it- bad luck really but eventually done the job and then it shot down the other one after declaring it hostile. The AIM-120C the F-15 fired hit my Su-25 so that was that. Hostilities have broke out with the yanks, but not the Turks or Coalition. I'll now have my strikes escorted by fighters especially as the yanks have a carrier in the Persian Gulf. A/C flying from there to Syria will be out of range of my S-400.

(in reply to ColonelMolerat)

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/19/2016 10:31:29 AM

Gunner98

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Hi cns

Please see my response to Col Molerat here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4167066

The conditions for the Americans and/or Coalition to feel threatened and go hostile are quite tricky, if you fire a missile or strike a target which their assets close by or in the firing arc - they might go hostile on you.

There wasn't actually a carrier in the Gulf during this timeframe, Eisenhower was in the Atlantic on the way to the Gulf and did some missions over Syria at the end of July, it only got to the Gulf in Mid July. The only carrier in the area was the Charles de Gaulle which is in scenario, there are about 40-50 US/coalition AC in the Gulf area - they are not played in the game.

A combination of the escalation tracker and the sensitivity to threats (which I think is fairly realistic) makes it hard to keep the situation de-escalated, which ends up with quite a variable scenario result. As you indicated, doing things to keep the situation calm which is really the crux of the scenario, while still gaining points by strike missions is the key. The situation there was (and I think still is) very tense, so things could go badly wrong quite easily.

Hope you enjoy it and thanks for playing.

B

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/19/2016 5:51:56 PM

ColonelMolerat

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I was watching TV while playing, so wasn't giving it all my concentration, can that be my excuse?

Almost as soon as I started this misison, the Russians and US/Coalition forces started fighting, so the S400 was opening fire on everything it saw.

Once they were ready, I flew 6 planes towards the S400 (with Popeyes and SOM A cruise missiles), along with an eight-plane fighter escort (overkill, but I thought they'd distract the S400 and, once it was destroyed, flank into the area it previous controlled from the West).

I got to within 35nm, but the second the jets rose to 10,000ft to launch their popeyes, it was a massacre!

One plane had been flying away, and launched a SOM A from a much longer range, which luckily hit and disabled the S400. After this, I was able to control the skies over Syria and I think only lost one or two more plane, after shooting down lots of Migs.

The mission ended when Coalition forces sank the RFS Moskva.

I'm going to post a more detailed AAR, but have come down with a nasty cold, so that'll have to wait!

(in reply to Gunner98)

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/20/2016 12:19:23 AM

cns180784

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Update on my scenario. There was an American P-3 MPA and it got to an area not far from one of my subs. My S-400 had reloaded after shooting down the two F-15's from earlier and could fire the full 48 missiles with all launchers fully loaded. With this i decided i wanted to keep it that way incase of an escalation with Turks/Coalition. So i decided to get two Su-30's off the deck to shoot down the P-3 (as it was a threat to my subs) and they were the two Su-30s that had yet to fly a sortie. There were French Rafales in the area and as soon as my Su-30s were airborne, the Coalition turned hostile and one Rafale engaged my Flankers with AMRAAMs.

All hell broke loose...there were also Typhoons in the air and at around the same time or a few mins after that Rafale fired at my Flankers the Turks turned hostile too (the most likely side to turn hostile first actually turned hostile last!). Missiles filled the skies over the med from my S-400, Su-30s, (which sadly were eventually shot down- my mistake should have put them behind the S-400 to the East as soon as the hostilities broke out) Typhoons, Rafales, SAMs from my cruiser, a type 45 destroyer and a Turkish upgraded Perry class frigate.

I saved and exited the game and since the hostilities broke out we shot down 3 Rafales and one Typhoon but lost two Su-30s and my intel gathering ship was sunk by the RN Type 45 destroyer. I wanted to avenge this so altered my cruisers mission ref points so that it would engage both the Turkish frigate and Type 45. I'm thinking that was a mistake- the Type 45 has one of the best naval air defence systems in the world, also the Turkish frigate with its RIM66E6 and RIM-162B are very formidable. A salvo of four SS-N-12 missiles were launched at the frigate and were easily shot down and my cruiser has just launched another four and has 8 left. My other surface ship has 8 SS-N-27 but starting to think ASM attacks on these is pointless, looks like it'll end in a stalemate with an ASM duel between my surface ships and theirs...but they have more down South that i think are defending the Carrier. My UAV spotted an Arleigh Burke, a Type 23 Frigate and a French frigate though it has yet to find the Carrier.

Sounds like that went well for you Colonel. Didnt think you would have the firepower as the Turks to take on the S400. Sounds to me like i'll automatically lose if my Cruiser gets sunk, i may just keep my two remaining surface ships close to the S400 and leave them there for now.

(in reply to ColonelMolerat)

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RE: Old Grudges Never Die weather - 10/20/2016 12:26:35 AM

cns180784

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Hi cns

Please see my response to Col Molerat here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4167066

The conditions for the Americans and/or Coalition to feel threatened and go hostile are quite tricky, if you fire a missile or strike a target which their assets close by or in the firing arc - they might go hostile on you.

There wasn't actually a carrier in the Gulf during this timeframe, Eisenhower was in the Atlantic on the way to the Gulf and did some missions over Syria at the end of July, it only got to the Gulf in Mid July. The only carrier in the area was the Charles de Gaulle which is in scenario, there are about 40-50 US/coalition AC in the Gulf area - they are not played in the game.

A combination of the escalation tracker and the sensitivity to threats (which I think is fairly realistic) makes it hard to keep the situation de-escalated, which ends up with quite a variable scenario result. As you indicated, doing things to keep the situation calm which is really the crux of the scenario, while still gaining points by strike missions is the key. The situation there was (and I think still is) very tense, so things could go badly wrong quite easily.

Hope you enjoy it and thanks for playing.

B

It does say in the briefing that the US carrier is currently in the Persian Gulf.

Also i wanted to raise this, that i keep getting these kinds of messages whenever an a/c takes off, or a Sonobouy is dropped, or in this case when missiles are launched:
11:50:08 - Contact: SS-N-12 Sandbox Mod 2 [P-1000] #2250 has been positively identified as: SS-N-12 Sandbox Mod 2 [P-1000] #2250 - Determined as: Unknown

I'm guessing these are the logs from my allies? (Syrians and Kurds) as i get contact reports from them that comes up in the message log for contacts that i already know about and have even been classified. For example i had detected and classified an American F-16 that took off from Incirlik. It flew over where the Kurds are and they report it as a bogey and then type classify it as multirole.

(in reply to Gunner98)

Post #: 20