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RE: ETA? - 10/20/2016 12:21:16 AM

rhinobones

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Wonder if the team could release a demo with the usual caveats that the production version may contain additional features. Make it for ten moves of a smallish scenario, no editor changes allowed.

Regards, RhinoBones

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Post #: 181

RE: ETA? - 10/20/2016 12:24:05 AM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones
Wonder if the team could release a demo with the usual caveats that the production version may contain additional features. Make it for ten moves of a smallish scenario, no editor changes allowed.

Regards, RhinoBones

I love that idea. I'll post something on the Development board to get some attention of this idea. Thanks.

EDIT: Okay........request posted.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 10/20/2016 12:28:51 AM >

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Post #: 182

RE: ETA? - 10/23/2016 3:24:19 AM

rhinobones

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Larry

Appreciate your dedication and enthusiasm for TOAW. Norm produced a demo (think it was a Korea scenario) so the precedent is set. Think that a demo would get a couple thousand download hits . . . should give Matrix a feeling for the sale od TOAW IV.
Age, I just turned 65. Got in late to VN.
My experience was laying sensors in Laos. Otherwise I was stationed in Iwakuni.

Regards

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Post #: 183

RE: ETA? - 10/24/2016 12:50:41 AM

GaryChildress

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How about do it like some Steam games where people can purchase the game while it is in the latter stages of development. Then we could all beta test.

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Post #: 184

RE: ETA? - 10/24/2016 1:14:08 AM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress
How about do it like some Steam games where people can purchase the game while it is in the latter stages of development. Then we could all beta test.

I really like this idea. Seems like it might be doable too.

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Post #: 185

RE: ETA? - 10/24/2016 11:53:56 AM

Lobster

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Larry, you are such a comedian.

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Post #: 186

RE: ETA? - 10/24/2016 12:07:51 PM

zakblood

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early access you mean then, then again that's the same for most as Alpha and some beta's are anyway, while sometimes it's a good idea, some don't like paying and alpha / beta pre testing so can go both ways, but that's for the developers and pub's to decide, quite a few are going this way atm, but not everyone agree's with it, so feelings are mixed

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Post #: 187

RE: ETA? - 10/24/2016 12:33:51 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

feelings are mixed

I believe it. Part of the skill set desired of the beta testers is knowing your way around your operating system so that you know how
to rename a file, copy it, zip it up, move it, etc. And some of the players aren't comfortable doing that and as a result might make a
less efficient beta tester. And that can breed confusion, frustration, and eventually rejection. I'm having second thoughts about
letting the players have a pre-release of the game engine. A beta copy of it.

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Post #: 188

RE: ETA? - 10/24/2016 12:54:34 PM

zakblood

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I've been alpha and beta testing for 20 odd years in one form or another, over many sites / games and developers, even O/S and consoles etc, most don't wish to format a pc's so often either, as once you have done some testing on a machine, the only way imo to really know if it's a software or hardware conflict is to wipe and reinstall or use a different pc or hardware, while not everyone has a few pc's lying around, most have different hardware so it's always good to know what everyone uses so a balanced testing force can be sought, with each using a different setup is always handy, as XP, Win 7/8.1 and now 10 makes for a few setup's, then hardware is always the harder part, as the combo's is infinite

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Post #: 189

RE: ETA? - 10/25/2016 7:26:49 PM

Lobster

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Hey Larry. Fogger keeps telling us there have been x number of updates to the beta and you guys have been very busy yada yada. So from listening to him things are proceeding apace and the game will soon be complete. After all it's been in development for almost three years now as TOAW 4 ( http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3462345 ) and for about five years as TOAW 3.5 so I was wondering. In your estimation how many months worth of work are there left to do if Ralph sticks with it? Just a personal opinion. Since Ralph was off by several years I don't see any harm in your thoughts.

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Post #: 190

RE: ETA? - 10/25/2016 7:35:39 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
Hey Larry. Fogger keeps telling us there have been x number of updates to the beta and you guys have been very busy yada yada. So from listening to him things are proceeding apace and the game will soon be complete. After all it's been in development for almost three years now as TOAW 4 ( http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3462345 ) and for about five years as TOAW 3.5 so I was wondering. In your estimation how many months worth of work are there left to do if Ralph sticks with it? Just a personal opinion. Since Ralph was off by several years I don't see any harm in your thoughts.

My answer here is my opinion and I can't speak for the Beta team or Matrix Games but I'm really hopeful that the release will be around
Christmas time. IMHO we've worked out all the major bugs and all that's left now is cosmetic changes. The font color, the font size, the
placement of labels, and so on. Bob Cross has been doing a good job on the programming side himself with these issues. I really
think it's almost ready. I hope so. I have no earthly idea when it will be released of course and the higher ups are kind of close lipped
and it's still a mystery but Christmas is around the corner and there's not that much left to do, IMHO.

EDIT: Oh, lemme tell you about the Jump map. Ralph added a new function that if you click on the edge of the mini-map a larger
version of the mini-map pops up and where you click on it is where the game map centers. It's really handy for finding your way
around a very large map. Which describes FITE2. It has a huge map and I'm constantly getting lost. A jump map function is almost
necessary around large maps. It's simple, easy, intuitive, and useful. This is a great addition to the game engine.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 10/25/2016 7:40:09 PM >

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Post #: 191

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 1:38:17 AM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

My answer here is my opinion and I can't speak for the Beta team or Matrix Games but I'm really hopeful that the release will be around
Christmas time. IMHO we've worked out all the major bugs and all that's left now is cosmetic changes. The font color, the font size, the
placement of labels, and so on. Bob Cross has been doing a good job on the programming side himself with these issues. I really
think it's almost ready. I hope so. I have no earthly idea when it will be released of course and the higher ups are kind of close lipped
and it's still a mystery but Christmas is around the corner and there's not that much left to do, IMHO.

EDIT: Oh, lemme tell you about the Jump map. Ralph added a new function that if you click on the edge of the mini-map a larger
version of the mini-map pops up and where you click on it is where the game map centers. It's really handy for finding your way
around a very large map. Which describes FITE2. It has a huge map and I'm constantly getting lost. A jump map function is almost
necessary around large maps. It's simple, easy, intuitive, and useful. This is a great addition to the game engine.

DUDE!!! I have been asking for a jump map for awhile now. This is great news. Wow, nice.

A December release would be a nice Xmas present. Don't expect it but it would be nice.

P.S. Bob, you are still da man no matter what you say.

Thanks for the intel Larry. Really appreciate it.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 10/26/2016 1:41:09 AM >

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Post #: 192

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 1:48:56 AM

FF_1079

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As far as a demo goes, I played the Korean War demo several times through the turn limit until I could find a copy on a shelf to buy. It sold the game system to me, and I have purchased 3 copies over the years.

I am currently play testing Strategic Command 3, and it's a lovely game, the true inheritor of the "Clash of Steel" mantle in my opinion. It's coming out Nov. 17th, and is a definite buy for me. Getting TOAW IV around Christmas would be a double buy for my holiday season.

Thanks to Larry and Zakblood for info updates - appreciate the communication!

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Post #: 193

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 5:45:51 AM

larryfulkerson

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Okie dokie........I've been told it's not just font acrobatics that's left. There's some programming and testing to be done yet also. Rats.

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Post #: 194

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 8:29:49 AM

Fred98

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I got TOAW 3 way back in about the year 2006. Very klunky wargame it seems to have been made with ancient software circa 1988. Very quickly I retired it.

A few months ago I re-installed it as a demo for TOAW 4. It is still klunky.

So, in game mechanics, what features does the game have to bring the mechanics into the 21st century? (I note mention of jump map above).

.

.

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Post #: 195

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 9:11:22 AM

sPzAbt653

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Look here if haven't yet : http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3899655

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Post #: 196

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 1:35:27 PM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

I got TOAW 3 way back in about the year 2006. Very klunky wargame it seems to have been made with ancient software circa 1988. Very quickly I retired it.

A few months ago I re-installed it as a demo for TOAW 4. It is still klunky.

So, in game mechanics, what features does the game have to bring the mechanics into the 21st century? (I note mention of jump map above).

.

.

Klunky as in what way? 21st century doesn't help since people are still making 1988 style games that are immensely popular

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Post #: 197

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 1:49:44 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98
I got TOAW 3 way back in about the year 2006. Very klunky wargame it seems to have been made with ancient software circa 1988. Very quickly I retired it.

A few months ago I re-installed it as a demo for TOAW 4. It is still klunky.

So, in game mechanics, what features does the game have to bring the mechanics into the 21st century? (I note mention of jump map above).

Klunky as in what way? 21st century doesn't help since people are still making 1988 style games that are immensely popular

TOAW 3 may seem "Klunky" but the mathematical model it uses is one of the best. Under the hood is the mechanics to calculate
the percentage of likelyhood for a hit and then calculates the damage if it does hit etc. It's realistic and accurate. In the
scenario Pearl Bob Cross has compared his results with the actual losses at Pearl in the initial strike and got reasonably
similar losses in the number of attackers lost and the number of ships damaged / sunk. I like the way it works and have gotten
past the DOS-like mechanics.

Plus there's been lots of changes to make it better. It's coming of age.

EDIT: I wish we could post screen shots. The UI has been revamped and improved and it's more intuitive and easier. No more big
grouping of buttons on the right side of the screen. Now there's movable, hide-able, panels and it's working out much better IMHO.
You can use the old style if you insist but it's not reccomended now that better tools are available. I want to hear what Fogger
thinks about the new version.

< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 10/26/2016 1:54:36 PM >

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Post #: 198

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 4:01:50 PM

ncc1701e

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
The UI has been revamped and improved and it's more intuitive and easier. No more big
grouping of buttons on the right side of the screen. Now there's movable, hide-able, panels and it's working out much better IMHO.
You can use the old style if you insist but it's not reccomended now that better tools are available.

Two questions if possible:
Is it the same for the in-game scenario editor?
Did you code / implement an equipment editor directly inside the game to avoid using third parties that are no more supported ?

Thanks

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Post #: 199

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 4:06:06 PM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
The UI has been revamped and improved and it's more intuitive and easier. No more big
grouping of buttons on the right side of the screen. Now there's movable, hide-able, panels and it's working out much better IMHO.
You can use the old style if you insist but it's not reccomended now that better tools are available.

Two questions if possible:
1. Is it the same for the in-game scenario editor?
2. Did you code / implement an equipment editor directly inside the game to avoid using third parties that are no more supported ?

Thanks

To tell you the truth NCC1701E dude, I'm not perfectly sure I know what kind of detail I'm allowed to go into here. I may have said
way too much already. Let's let Bob Cross answer these questions, please. The answers are good news though.

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RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 4:20:08 PM

ncc1701e

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Thanks Larry, I understand.

Being myself beta tester for the first time, I have translate my NDA by: I won't post anymore in the public development forum for this game!
Too bad my anniversary coupon is coming, no TOAW4 yet.

But Larry, thanks for giving news about TOAW4.

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Post #: 201

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 9:45:03 PM

Fred98

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

Klunky as in what way?

An amazing question. You actually don't know? Please compare DOS with Windows and you understand my question.

File open -

File save -

And everything to do with using the mouse to do anything whatsoever in the game.

Mouse and TOAW3 = 1988

The wargame Uncommon Valour was released in 2002. It is a 21st century game. It was easy to do anything in the game.
.

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Post #: 202

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 9:48:00 PM

Fred98

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

The UI has been revamped and improved and it's more intuitive and easier.

So your are agreeing TOAW 3 is klunky. I look forward to the screen shots.

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Post #: 203

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 10:13:27 PM

Curtis Lemay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

An amazing question. You actually don't know? Please compare DOS with Windows and you understand my question.

File open -

File save -

And everything to do with using the mouse to do anything whatsoever in the game.

Mouse and TOAW3 = 1988

The wargame Uncommon Valour was released in 2002. It is a 21st century game. It was easy to do anything in the game.

I'm drawing a blank. I guess it will remain a mystery.

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Post #: 204

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 10:14:33 PM

Curtis Lemay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Two questions if possible:
Is it the same for the in-game scenario editor?
Did you code / implement an equipment editor directly inside the game to avoid using third parties that are no more supported .

I don't understand the first question. There is no built-in equipment editor.

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Post #: 205

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 11:12:41 PM

fogger

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As anybody who knows me will tell you that I am a FITE addict. I love the new layout and jump map. A couple of clicks and it is like saying "beam me up scotty and then put me down here".

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Post #: 206

RE: ETA? - 10/26/2016 11:38:42 PM

Lobster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

The UI has been revamped and improved and it's more intuitive and easier.

So your are agreeing TOAW 3 is klunky. I look forward to the screen shots.

So by klunky you mean you don't like the current TOAW interface? Whether or not something is 'klunky' is purely subjective. What one person perceives as difficult another may perceive as easy. It's entirely up to the individual as is any war game. I don't like the way GG War in the East handles many things. But lots of people do like it. Just because I don't like some things about it doesn't make it a bad game except for me.

Maybe the changes in TOAW4 will make it so it is not so klunky. But it will still be a DOS game made in 1998 at it's heart. If that is really the problem you have with it then you are going to be unhappy with it because that most probably cannot be changed without remaking the entire game.

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Post #: 207

RE: ETA? - 10/27/2016 11:56:19 AM

ncc1701e

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

I don't understand the first question. There is no built-in equipment editor.

In other words, does the revamped UI apply to the in-game scenario editor and ease the creation of scenario?

I could think of many small points like:
. Window size increase
. Less click to do
. Less scrolling to do

This would ease the selection of an equipment in the equipment list to fill an unit TO&E for example.

We could also imagine a radio button for selection of each equipment in the equipment list. I select all the equipment that I need in one single window and I have a button to click on that will automatically create a new unit with what equipments were selected.

I also wish a single window showing all units of one country allowing easy copy/paste of what is missing.

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Post #: 208

RE: ETA? - 10/27/2016 5:08:54 PM

Fred98

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
But it will still be a DOS game made in 1998 at it's heart. If that is really the problem you have with it then you are going to be unhappy with it because that most probably cannot be changed without remaking the entire game.

Most airlines use old computer mainframes from well before 1998. We airline users don't see black screens with green text. Rather, we users see apps and an easy to use interface on our computer screens.
.

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Post #: 209

RE: ETA? - 10/27/2016 6:22:50 PM

ncc1701e

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

We airline users don't see black screens with green text.

Well, pilots do.

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Post #: 210

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RE: ETA?