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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> Lost in the Woods...

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Lost in the Woods... - 10/16/2016 8:16:32 PM

Werewolf13

Posts: 511
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

MAN!
I feel so stupid. Been playing wargames since I was 10 years old in 1962 and started with Risk, graduated to Blitzkrieg and then to the old SPI (or was it SSI back then) subscription game in the mail every month. Avalon Hill games like Squad Leader, Advanced Squad Leader, my all time AH favorite Anzio and on and on. Easy games, hard games, short games and long games. Paper maps large enough to fill the floor in a typical room. Then came computers and games got simple again but who cared? Now you had an opponent when ever you wanted one and fog of war became a reality and on and on until the present day.

During the past 54 years not once have I ever had trouble learning the next new game - NOT ONCE...

Until along came War in the West. And now I'm a babe lost in the woods,surrounded by so many trees that the way out is blocked in every direction.

I've watched the tutorial videos, used You Tube and read the manuals.

And still I am lost.

So to y'all who've mastered the basics - how'd you do it? What do I need to do so I can play this wonderful game?

HELP!

_____________________________

Freedom is not free! Nor should it be. For men being men will neither fight for nor value that which is free.

Michael Andress

Post #: 1

RE: Lost in the Woods... - 10/16/2016 8:28:13 PM

comte

Posts: 2358
Joined: 2/4/2009
From: Be'eri, Hadarom, Israel
Status: offline

I learned a lot of the game by playing the Breakout scenario. I kept trying Husky and giving up on the game but Breakout really helped me figure out the game. Also don't overthink the airwar. At the beginning I tried to do too much with my airforce at once. Instead let the A.I. set up your air directives and tweak them.

_____________________________

But when Territories are acquired in regions where there are differences in language, customs, and laws then great good fortune and much hard work are required to hold them.

-Machiavelli, Il Principe, Book III-

(in reply to Werewolf13)

Post #: 2

RE: Lost in the Woods... - 10/16/2016 8:37:23 PM

RedLancer

Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline

Are you struggling with the air or ground phase? If Air then just use the Auto AD creation for starters.

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John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to comte)

Post #: 3

RE: Lost in the Woods... - 10/16/2016 9:40:25 PM

Werewolf13

Posts: 511
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

Trying to do the Husky tutorial scenario and I figured out that just letting the AI handle the air war was probably the way to go.

After that's when I hit the block. Units scattered all over, a UI that is as far from intuitive as one can get. Couldn't figure out how to set up the invasion of Sicily if my life depended on it. Figured out how to move but there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to where the units are, clicking in the OB just brings up another screen and as near as I can figure the unit is under it somewhere. Advancing thru screens is easy enough but how the HELL do you get back to the screen you were just in with out starting all over?

There is a huge amount of information in the various screens much that will eventually become very useful but at this point it's just information and no help at all in defining the steps one should go thru to complete a turn like in a more standard game like TOAW for example or even the typical Ageod game.

There's a great game in WitW hiding behind a UI that's a tangled ball of string. Unraveling that tangled ball that is the UI and the process of moving thru it to turn's end is the real task.

There seems to be no real step by step procedure for walking thru a turn in any logical manner that I can find anywhere. The YouTube tutorials I've found are moved thru so fast andor assume that the viewer already knows what the creator is trying to teach that they are practically useless IMO. If there's any real good ones out there a link would be greatly appreciated.

Perhaps I don't fully understand the true nature of WitW. Maybe it's atypical and I need to wrap my head around how it's different and adjust. Or perhaps this one has become spoiled by the tendency of game developers in the past 10 years to hold our hands thru the basics. Perhaps.

_____________________________

Freedom is not free! Nor should it be. For men being men will neither fight for nor value that which is free.

Michael Andress

(in reply to RedLancer)

Post #: 4

RE: Lost in the Woods... - 10/16/2016 10:45:35 PM

rickier65

Posts: 14231
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326

Trying to do the Husky tutorial scenario and I figured out that just letting the AI handle the air war was probably the way to go.

After that's when I hit the block. Units scattered all over, a UI that is as far from intuitive as one can get. Couldn't figure out how to set up the invasion of Sicily if my life depended on it. .......

There is a huge amount of information in the various screens much that will eventually become very useful but at this point it's just information and no help at all in defining the steps one should go thru to complete a turn like in a more standard game like TOAW for example or even the typical Ageod game.

There's a great game in WitW hiding behind a UI that's a tangled ball of string. Unraveling that tangled ball that is the UI and the process of moving thru it to turn's end is the real task.

There seems to be no real step by step procedure for walking thru a turn in any logical manner that I can find anywhere. .....If there's any real good ones out there a link would be greatly appreciated.
...

I've started this game several times myself and had similar thoughts. What i'm doing now is having the AI do the Air Planning using the auto Air Directives. Pretty easy to push a few buttons and let the AI do it's thing.

For the ground phase, I decided to go back to the War in the West Players Handbook. It's only about 35 pages. It doesn't go into a lot of detail, but I think it is enough to get started. One thing I wish they had done was to put the Section 6. Intro to Invasions and Amphibious Oper ahead of Section 5, Basic Movement and Combat. But I just read started the Husky tutorial, and read though Section 4. After I ran the Air phase, I read through Section 5 and 6. After I got the Invasion set, I read through section 7 to do the Airborne.

This is enough info to get through the first turn.

Rick

(in reply to Werewolf13)

Post #: 5

RE: Lost in the Woods... - 10/16/2016 10:52:30 PM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

print out Red Lancer's annexes - there are 10 (?) one page guides and those will hold your hand while you move the basic units.

while Husky is suggested as the best learning scenario in a way (as suggested above) Breakout and Pursuit is actually good as well.

if you hand over the air war to the AI, then its all about land movement and combat.

the one page guides will help you through the basics and there is some (unexpected?) help. For eg if you select a unit to make an attack it will show the likely odds against your chosen target. Now more units may arrive via the 'reserve' rule (for both sides) but that is a good start - to win you need 2-1.

What I'd do is to try out T1 of that scenario a few times - doesn't matter if it is a total mess first time around. In part remember that the opening allied attacks were bloody stalemates and in part you'll get a feel for hasty vs deliberate attacks, how much to commit and so on.

Theres a very good AAR by Harrybanana - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3872809 - which gives a step by step guide to the grand campaign ... just read the sections that seem to apply to the situation you are looking at.

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RE: Lost in the Woods... - 10/16/2016 11:31:51 PM

Werewolf13

Posts: 511
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

To all who replied - much thanks.
Good suggestions all that provide a direction to start.

Again:
Thanks...

_____________________________

Freedom is not free! Nor should it be. For men being men will neither fight for nor value that which is free.

Michael Andress

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 7

RE: Lost in the Woods... - 10/21/2016 2:40:10 AM

barkhorn45

Posts: 245
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline

Don't want to sound like a jerk but,rtfm!

(in reply to Werewolf13)

Post #: 8

RE: Lost in the Woods... - 10/21/2016 9:12:15 AM

loki100

Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: barkhorn45

Don't want to sound like a jerk but,rtfm!

to be honest, you do sound like one - what on earth is wrong with asking for help when learning a complex and deep game?

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Post #: 9

RE: Lost in the Woods... - 10/23/2016 10:16:30 PM

barkhorn45

Posts: 245
Joined: 3/7/2008
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because the op appears to have not read it or the one page manuals.
You don't start using a complex program like witw without researching it.also reading the forum help's.I did not ask questions because someone else always seemed to have the same problems and asked for me.Why don't you go to the witp-ae forum and call everyone who uses this term a jerk,that's where I got the term.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 10

RE: Lost in the Woods... - 10/29/2016 4:34:31 PM

monniker

Posts: 16
Joined: 10/16/2015
Status: offline

I've read the manual about three times now, and the one-page guides about the same, and I can barely tell you how the game runs.

I'm not the most technical person, though, so I love to use the forums. There's a great collection of AARs out here, like loki suggested. When I started the game, I figured playing the defense would be easiest. Try getting a Major victory as the Axis. It'll begin to teach you about the critical nature of supplies and depots, and the effect of terrain on combat. Except against the AI, you won't keep everything, but you can do pretty good denial in Sicily.

Once you've played the AI a bit, try fiddling around with your limited air assets. You won't accomplish the same thing as the Allies, but you can get a feel for the system.

Once you're bored with the Husky scenario, I really do recommend Breakout and Pursuit 44. That'll be the crash course on mass combat. (That's my favorite. I love the air war as the Germans because you get to watch the economy system work and it's so beautiful to me- I just wish this was a 1940 GC where you could affect production more). It's very easy as the Germans, so long as you rotate in reserves. First time I played that scenario, I think I got a Decisive Victory simply because the AI could not exploit my lines for the breakout, which is critical. Nowadays, the AI's smarter, but again, it'll teach you the reserves rules pretty well. Make sure to read the combat reports- I leave them to speed 0 when the turn resolves to make it move faster, and then click on 'em.

Once you get a Major Victory there, I'd say the next test would be the one before the Wacht Am Rheine offensive. I can't remember the name, but the limited supply as the Axis and the weak Allied infrastructure will really hammer home the depot system. That's about where I am right now (hammering my head against rules I can only barely comprehend), though I can't resist the allure of starting up and abandoning a GC every couple of weeks.

The dedicated Air Scenarios are also really good at teaching the air war. I keep thinking there's a way for the Luftwaffe to tear the throat out of the Allied airforce (at least against the AI), so I plug away with fighter placement and AS missions. I like to dream that when I get the game down cold I'll make an alt scenario for fun with only minor changes so the Axis get their jets a year earlier and see if that makes the Luftwaffe triumphant.

But yeah, it's a game of steps. I didn't realize that until I'd had the game for about a year, but you can't go wrong if you can spend one night a week playing the smaller scenarios and really playing them. I recommend the first time you do it, you go as Axis, but that might also be because I'm part German.

Overall, it's one of my favorite games to play, even if I am terrible with it.

(in reply to barkhorn45)

Post #: 11

RE: Lost in the Woods... - 10/30/2016 9:24:57 PM

LuckyJim1010

Posts: 260
Joined: 7/6/2010
Status: offline

Actually for me learning to play this game took me back to playing the old paper wargames from SPI, AH etc

Start with Husky and ignore the Air Stuff and don't even think about trying to invade Sicily

I start by finding out what the numbers and symbols on the units mean.
Then learn how to move units, not just the hex by hex war type movement but the Strategic side as well.
See how far you can push a division over the different terrain types.
See what happens to things in the Unit when they do move. What effect does movement without combat do to their stats?
Supply - Computer wargames have really upped the ante in this area. Don't dance around the dung pile here, dive right in.
Supply - Who wants it? Where does it come from? How much is needed? How does supply move around the board. How does the game tell me about all this?
Remember amateurs talk about tactics, professionals talk Logistics

So you can now move your units all over North Africa and you will have an insight into the feel of the units
After the basics read up about Invasions. Then when you have that down pat get some units into Sicily.
Rinse and repeat the above for Combat mechanics.
Do it again for the Air side of things. Being ex RAF I did the reverse and learnt the Air stuff first.

Learn to love the 'Load Saved Game' feature.

I would also say don't sweat the Commander's Report screen.
Do not even look at it until you can move and fight with units.
Same system as learning the Ground and Air units, you have to treat the Commander's Report as a major thing and acknowledge it's complexity.
So make a big mug of tea/coffee (or have a beer), sit down in front of the PC, stick your Supreme Commander's hat on and dive in.
I guarantee you will come to think "Why the hell is this not in all games"

You see where I am going with this rambling post.

Enjoy learning the game. I guarantee you will have many "Bloody hell, that's clever" moments.

I still recall trying to learn SPI's old incredibly complicated AirWar game. The dev's had a great way of putting it.
They said to learn the game like you learn to become a military pilot in real life
Start with basic flight school. Moving the aircraft around the map,how to do manoeuvres, get it so it's second nature to move the paperwork counters.
Move on to using the aircraft as a weapon system.
Start bolting on the additional bits like basic gunnery, move on to basic heat seekers, work into radar homing stuff
Etc etc

I apologise if this post comes across as condescending.
Just using the 'old' way of learning these Monster Games.

(in reply to monniker)

Post #: 12

RE: Lost in the Woods... - 10/30/2016 9:31:23 PM

LuckyJim1010

Posts: 260
Joined: 7/6/2010
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Forgot to add - do not drill down into a unit unless you prepared to lose a night just seeing how units are made up.
Gets addictive quickly.

(in reply to LuckyJim1010)

Post #: 13