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Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/9/2016 2:55:42 PM

glyphoglossus

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Can someone correct/confirm that the following is roughly how one would estimate the amount of supply to send to a base?

E.g., consider Luganville, which from the base info screen requires approximate 3000 of supply required. I understand (a) this is a per-day quantity; and (b) that this is volatile quantity, that may fluctuate wildly, but we can deal with that later.

Let us say that we want to set up a continuous supply from Sydney (38 hexes).

This means that it would take around 10 turns for a 3-hex/day supply convoy to reach from Sydney, and, say 22-24 turns for a round trip including loading time. Call it 25 turns.

That means that I have to ensure that each supply run brings enough supply for the base to last 25 days, i.e. at least about 75000 at the current stated rate of consumption.

Does that seem right?

Is this how you go about planning for this?

p.s. I recognize Noumea is closer, and may be a better source. This will change the travel time and hence the quantities involved, but what I am interested in is the general logic/principle behind the calculations rather than the exact values.

Thanks.

Post #: 1

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/9/2016 3:35:22 PM

Alfred

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Or you could look up my posts and learn.

Alfred

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Post #: 2

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/9/2016 3:44:07 PM

glyphoglossus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Or you could look up my posts and learn.

Alfred

Thank you, Alfred.

I appreciate the annoyance of having a flood of new people coming in a constantly asking questions that you have answered previously in great detail. It's the "StackExchange" syndrome, where old hands are bitter at having to answer the same question again and again, and this will be followed the final stage of which is that you give up participating in the forums altogether.

However, I do think I should say that I have spent dozens upon dozens of hours scouring these forums. And that is on top of reading the manual (three times now). And yes, almost all your posts (e.g. Logistics 101) have turned out to be very, very, very, very useful. And helpful. And appreciated.

Yet, here we are. If I have come here asking, it is because I either (a) missed the relevant post or (b) did not properly understand/parse it. It is not due to intellectual laziness or failure to do due diligence. Apologies for wasting your electrons anyway.

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 3

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/9/2016 3:46:56 PM

BBfanboy

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glyphoglossus: note that most convoys travel six hexes per turn. The three hex movement is per 12 hour phase.

I think you are overthinking this. You need enough supply for what the base usage is X 2, but X 3 is better. You need to look at what you will need for aircraft operations, unit device replacements, aircraft replacements, replenishing ships and any you might load with the troops on your next amphibious op from there.
Don't try and do it all in one big chunk and forget about it for ages, just send convoys there on a routine basis and check the stocks every week or so.

_____________________________

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Post #: 4

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/9/2016 3:55:17 PM

glyphoglossus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

glyphoglossus: note that most convoys travel six hexes per turn. The three hex movement is per 12 hour phase.

I think you are overthinking this. You need enough supply for what the base usage is X 2, but X 3 is better. You need to look at what you will need for aircraft operations, unit device replacements, aircraft replacements, replenishing ships and any you might load with the troops on your next amphibious op from there.
Don't try and do it all in one big chunk and forget about it for ages, just send convoys there on a routine basis and check the stocks every week or so.

Thanks, BBfanboy.

When you say x2 and x3, that is the base "Supply Required" field, which is per day?

I was thinking of setting up a continuous supply for some bases, but just wanted to figure on how much I would need to send per run, and thought that planning to cover the round-trip would do it.

So how do you do it? Every now and then check a base and when the supplies look low, send a supply convoy in? At that point, do you just send in x3 the supply required?

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 5

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/9/2016 4:54:36 PM

GetAssista

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Don't worry about peaceful supply consumption as Allies. You will be flush in supply for those needs very soon. And wartime consumption is hard to predict in the first place. Calculations for Japan matter a bit more but still, any decent hostilities will consume a lot of supply quickly from any kind of isolated palce

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Post #: 6

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/9/2016 4:58:36 PM

HansBolter

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I set up continuous supply missions to every important base.

Early on, major bases in SoPac such as Auckland, Noumea and Suva get TFs of 4-6 xAKs.

I'm looking to get 20K-40K delivered per visit early upping that to 50K-80K later.

Later as more xAKs become available the TFs are enlarged.

The sources are typically LA, or Cristobal (after setting up as large CS TF from the East Coast to Cristobal.

These are long trips so I'm looking to get large quantities delivered each visit.

Secondary bases like Luganville I typically supply either from the growing stockpile at Auckland or from Sydney if I have gotten enough fuel there to keep the HI working to produce a supply stockpile.

In the first six months I look to build up the major theater hubs to a 150k minimum.

By the end of the fist nine months I'm looking to get 250K at the hubs.

The buildup continues from there, building to 1 million at Auckland by the end of the first quarter of '43.

Like BBfanboy, I don't try to micromanage what exact amount I need at any given base, but work in generalities to build up primary hubs and secondary base stockpiles as quickly as I can.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 11/9/2016 5:00:40 PM >

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Hans

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Post #: 7

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/9/2016 8:43:41 PM

glyphoglossus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I set up continuous supply missions to every important base.

Early on, major bases in SoPac such as Auckland, Noumea and Suva get TFs of 4-6 xAKs.

I'm looking to get 20K-40K delivered per visit early upping that to 50K-80K later.

Later as more xAKs become available the TFs are enlarged.

The sources are typically LA, or Cristobal (after setting up as large CS TF from the East Coast to Cristobal.

These are long trips so I'm looking to get large quantities delivered each visit.

Secondary bases like Luganville I typically supply either from the growing stockpile at Auckland or from Sydney if I have gotten enough fuel there to keep the HI working to produce a supply stockpile.

In the first six months I look to build up the major theater hubs to a 150k minimum.

By the end of the fist nine months I'm looking to get 250K at the hubs.

The buildup continues from there, building to 1 million at Auckland by the end of the first quarter of '43.

Like BBfanboy, I don't try to micromanage what exact amount I need at any given base, but work in generalities to build up primary hubs and secondary base stockpiles as quickly as I can.

Hi HansBolter,

Thanks for your detailed reply. Useful guides. What is the principle/heuristic/rule-of-thumb or otherwise the principle behind these numbers:

(1) "20K-40K delivered per visit early upping that to 50K-80K"
(2) "build up the major theater hubs to a 150k"

etc.

Are they just numbers that you know worked? What is the relationship of those numbers of base requirements, distance, etc.? Trying to understand the reasoning behind the mechanics here :)

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 8

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/9/2016 9:53:18 PM

pontiouspilot

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Whether you follow BBs looser instinctive approach or Happy Han's more sophisticated approach probably doesn't matter that much as allied player. At Loganville what matters more than anything is the port size. You will want to expand the port asap and only bother sending there what can conveniently be unloaded. I also don't bother getting bases too overloaded with supply if there is a chance of them being subject to naval bombardment or capture.

(in reply to glyphoglossus)

Post #: 9

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/9/2016 9:53:30 PM

dcpollay

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From: Upstate New York USA
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I will note that nobody has yet addressed the main problem with the OP's assumptions. Luganville does not require 3000 supply per day. This is a per-month requirement; as you said, this estimate can fluctuate significantly based upon activity and usage at the base for the past day.

Luganville will not require 75,000 supply to last until the next convoy arrives.

_____________________________

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Formerly known as Colonel Mustard, before I got Slitherine Syndrome.

(in reply to glyphoglossus)

Post #: 10

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/9/2016 11:55:22 PM

glyphoglossus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Mustard

I will note that nobody has yet addressed the main problem with the OP's assumptions. Luganville does not require 3000 supply per day. This is a per-month requirement; as you said, this estimate can fluctuate significantly based upon activity and usage at the base for the past day.

Luganville will not require 75,000 supply to last until the next convoy arrives.

Well, TBH, 75K did seem high!

This "3000" value was what was displayed in the "Supplies Required" field, which I took to mean the (rough, ever-changing) estimate of daily consumption. This was based on the manual, which on pg. 205, says that the base info screen shows "Supplies on hand (1728), Supplies Required (417) per day in order to function at full efficiency ..."

Am I misreading that this value is the daily rate? Or is the manual wrong?

I also asked for clarification here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4176063

and at least one forum user confirmed that it was indeed a per day rate.

(in reply to dcpollay)

Post #: 11

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/9/2016 11:57:40 PM

glyphoglossus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Whether you follow BBs looser instinctive approach or Happy Han's more sophisticated approach probably doesn't matter that much as allied player. At Loganville what matters more than anything is the port size. You will want to expand the port asap and only bother sending there what can conveniently be unloaded. I also don't bother getting bases too overloaded with supply if there is a chance of them being subject to naval bombardment or capture.

Thanks. Good tip regarding the port size. I guess I would like to learn the correct approach even as the allied player, so that I can put it into practice as the IJN player when needed. But it well could be that the correct approach as the allied player is not the same as the correct approach as the IJN player, and the former is all "dont sweat the small stuff and just throw a bunch of stuff at it" ...

(in reply to pontiouspilot)

Post #: 12

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 4:14:35 AM

bradfordkay

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I always thought that the "supplies needed" number was for a fortnight.

Mainly I try to keep every minor base at least with 25,000 supply and the hubs with as much as I can get to them. If your base has 20,000 supply then the units there can accept upgrades and replacements, so by trying to keep at least 25,000 I can reasonably hope that no unit is prevented from receiving those when it's needed. Mind you, the tiny bases can't hold that much supply, so I build them up ASAP.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 13

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 10:29:32 AM

HansBolter

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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: glyphoglossus

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I set up continuous supply missions to every important base.

Early on, major bases in SoPac such as Auckland, Noumea and Suva get TFs of 4-6 xAKs.

I'm looking to get 20K-40K delivered per visit early upping that to 50K-80K later.

Later as more xAKs become available the TFs are enlarged.

The sources are typically LA, or Cristobal (after setting up as large CS TF from the East Coast to Cristobal.

These are long trips so I'm looking to get large quantities delivered each visit.

Secondary bases like Luganville I typically supply either from the growing stockpile at Auckland or from Sydney if I have gotten enough fuel there to keep the HI working to produce a supply stockpile.

In the first six months I look to build up the major theater hubs to a 150k minimum.

By the end of the fist nine months I'm looking to get 250K at the hubs.

The buildup continues from there, building to 1 million at Auckland by the end of the first quarter of '43.

Like BBfanboy, I don't try to micromanage what exact amount I need at any given base, but work in generalities to build up primary hubs and secondary base stockpiles as quickly as I can.

Hi HansBolter,

Thanks for your detailed reply. Useful guides. What is the principle/heuristic/rule-of-thumb or otherwise the principle behind these numbers:

(1) "20K-40K delivered per visit early upping that to 50K-80K"
(2) "build up the major theater hubs to a 150k"

etc.

Are they just numbers that you know worked? What is the relationship of those numbers of base requirements, distance, etc.? Trying to understand the reasoning behind the mechanics here :)

No they are just rough estimates of what can be expected to be transported by 4-6 xAKs and later by 10-12 xAKs.

Even the number of ships is a rough estimate.

I also set up smaller 1-2 ship CS TF for smaller bases such as Line Islands and Pago Pago.

Another, very important point for Allied players is to recognize that a vast amount of transport shipping is not where it needs to be at game start.

On the fist tunr I comb through every port and get the shipping headed to the major supply source hubs, San Fran, LA, EC, CT and Abadan.

I use what is immediately available at those hubs to start CS convoys to the major theater hubs.

Later as that herd heading to the hubs arrives I start filling out TFs for the secondary bases and even setting up second TFs to the major hubs.

I do the same with fuel to Auckland, which becomes the fuel hub for the rest of SoPac.

As for the amounts I expect to achieve by the milestone dates it is just by experience knowing that is roughly what I can achieve through the technique I use.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 11/10/2016 11:30:32 AM >

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Hans

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RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 10:43:02 AM

Bullwinkle58

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http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2878790&mpage=1&key=logistics%2C101?

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Post #: 15

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 11:17:09 AM

Itdepends

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
Or you could look up my posts and learn.
Alfred

Especially his last one, it was.....entertaining. I wouldn't worry about apologising, the last poster he replied to resulted in a much higher level of electrons wasted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
Rubbish. Unadulterated rubbish.

The screenshot you put up shows absolutely no reason why any of those 8 airframes "in reserve" would be activated. The unit has a TOE of 16. It has 16 ready aircraft.

How arrogant of you , a person who has no clue because you can't be bothered reading the manual or search for any relevant forum threads/posts, to tell me that I am wrong. How arrogant to not even attempt to consider why I made the statement I did.

From now on I will not provide any further assistance to the forum. Let all the urban myths, the plain out just wrong statements be made. Other than the devs, no one else knows more about the game mechanics than me. Let the few who have a similar level of knowledge assist, there is no reason why I should provide any assistance.

Alfred

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 16

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 12:19:12 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Itdepends

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
Or you could look up my posts and learn.
Alfred

Especially his last one, it was.....entertaining. I wouldn't worry about apologising, the last poster he replied to resulted in a much higher level of electrons wasted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
Rubbish. Unadulterated rubbish.

The screenshot you put up shows absolutely no reason why any of those 8 airframes "in reserve" would be activated. The unit has a TOE of 16. It has 16 ready aircraft.

How arrogant of you , a person who has no clue because you can't be bothered reading the manual or search for any relevant forum threads/posts, to tell me that I am wrong. How arrogant to not even attempt to consider why I made the statement I did.

From now on I will not provide any further assistance to the forum. Let all the urban myths, the plain out just wrong statements be made. Other than the devs, no one else knows more about the game mechanics than me. Let the few who have a similar level of knowledge assist, there is no reason why I should provide any assistance.

Alfred

This quote does not appear in this thread. Did you add anything to the process of learning by adding it?

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Post #: 17

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 12:36:20 PM

Itdepends

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I think the op learned that he is not unique in receiveng an high browed response and hopefully he is not discouraged from asking questions in the future.

You could ask the same question of Alfred in either thread.

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Post #: 18

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 12:47:57 PM

Bullwinkle58

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I've been here since Day 1. I've actually met Alfred and spent several days with him. He is who he is. For many years folks here have berated him over his manner, and it has not changed his approach to the forum a whit. Either you accept that and absorb his knowledge--and he is correct that aside from the devs no one, NO ONE, knows more about the game's behavior--or you ignore him. The green button is there for use.

But constantly whining that he isn't "nice"? Waste of time.

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Post #: 19

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 2:06:43 PM

dave sindel

Posts: 488
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From: Millersburg, OH
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I've been here since Day 1. I've actually met Alfred and spent several days with him. He is who he is. For many years folks here have berated him over his manner, and it has not changed his approach to the forum a whit. Either you accept that and absorb his knowledge--and he is correct that aside from the devs no one, NO ONE, knows more about the game's behavior--or you ignore him. The green button is there for use.

But constantly whining that he isn't "nice"? Waste of time.

Excellent advice Moose.

For newcomers to the forum, I strongly suggest looking up Moose's AAR - The title is "Nothing up my sleeve - Magical Moose Tricks". It has the story of Moose's meeting with Alfred in it. A very enjoyable read.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 20

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 8:17:43 PM

MakeeLearn

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I guess I can weigh in on this

Maybe we should all have Alfred's attitude it would make for a interesting forum. I could post the reply I was tempted to do. Regardless of what he knows about WitPAE he was wrong in his post. He insulted me, made false accusations , stormed off and said he would not be helping here anymore..."Forum Rage"....

Restraint.....especially in something trivial. So I bit my tongue and tried to respond as gracious as I could. As a neighbor and a student of Eugene Sledge I learned that from him. I once told Prof Sledge that the freshman girl from Pennsylvania had said that he was "the epitome of a southern gentleman". His response was " SHOOO... I have to be to keep from cussing, her questions are so confusing I dont know what she's asking much less the answer!"

From Recruit ro Admiral everyone has to Makee Learn.

Back to topic

I will not paraphase the scripture but use a exact qoute:

"Each unit (Air, Ground, and Naval) has a minimum requirement of supplies, which is constantly calculated and updated by the

computer. Supply needs are an estimate of future needs based on recent supply usage. Thus, if aircraft at a base are flying a lot

of Missions, or ground units are engaging in combat at a base, or ships are replenishing ammo from a base, the supply needs of

the base will increase. As combat activity declines, the supply needs value will also decline, although units always require a basic

subsistence level of supplies. While supplies are actually consumed as used, without adequate supplies on hand to meet the

expected needs, units instinctively begin to curtail operations in order to stretch out the available supplies. "

A lot of grey room, the main thing is past usage and prediction of future use for Supplies Required " in order to function at full

efficiency",

A current situation:

As Allies I control the base, no aircraft. The Japanese have been trying to take it.

Noumea:

25 April preturnSave
Supplies:2418
Supplies Required:456

26 April
Supplies:2423
Supplies Required:460

yet little supply is used. As player calculating your needs....FLEXIBILTY!!! not carved in stone. Need to apply Kentucky Windage.

Not much happen last turn. No supply delivery. 5 supply gain ????? From Noumea? It's not showing.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 11/10/2016 9:58:19 PM >

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Post #: 21

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 8:52:44 PM

BillBrown

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Which scenario are you playing? Some have supply generation at Noumea.
It looks like you might have 20 LI there producing 20 supply. 15 used and 5 stored.

< Message edited by BillBrown -- 11/10/2016 8:54:17 PM >

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Post #: 22

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planni - 11/10/2016 8:58:56 PM

Itdepends

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Bulllwinkle,
I dont consider it whining and although I am aware of the functionality of the green button I also enjoy Alfreds insights. However newcomers to the forum do not have the experience with either his expert knowledge or his lapses of etiquette. You provided the OP insight into one of those facets in your post, I provided the other. You may note that I didn't post in the other thread, there wasnt the need. Makeelearnee provided an excellent response.

I do however find it amusing that you found my post distasteful enough to comment on when 90% of it was not mine. Do you object to the tone of my few lines or is it because It highlights the behaivour you are willing to accept as long as the poster is technically proficient?

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)

Post #: 23

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 9:10:11 PM

MakeeLearn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Which scenario are you playing? Some have supply generation at Noumea.
It looks like you might have 20 LI there producing 20 supply. 15 used and 5 stored.

had to change computers.

industry info It produces 10 supply but should it not be showing on the base screen?

scripture:

"If a slash and a second number follows either of these values, the number to the right of the slash is the number of these items produced per day at this base"

write the least to state a idea.... Yoda does.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 11/10/2016 9:20:18 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 9:24:52 PM

BillBrown

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A number to the right of the slash is supply produced automatically. It will not include any produced by LI, HI, or refineries.
It can not be stopped by the enemy except by taking control of the base. And it will not produce for the enemy after he/she takes
the base.
Look at Eastern USA for an example.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)

Post #: 25

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 9:37:03 PM

MakeeLearn

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"automatically?" ok I see how you meant it

"A number to the right of the slash... " reading logistics and then rereading the scripture will cloud the issue.

Another point that bears on the OP question is how little supply I used compared to what was told I needed. Do to little activity. Which makes wanting to know a precise number almost impossible.

edit: needed for full efficiency. which I did not do with my units

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 11/10/2016 10:13:18 PM >

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Post #: 26

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 9:56:03 PM

BillBrown

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As far as I know the number required is an estimate for the next 30 days, but it can vary a lot depending on
what is happening. Note that the manual does not state that the required number of supplies will be used in
one day, but it is the number required to function at full efficiency( these are two different concepts )

(in reply to MakeeLearn)

Post #: 27

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 10:09:24 PM

MakeeLearn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

As far as I know the number required is an estimate for the next 30 days, but it can vary a lot depending on
what is happening. Note that the manual does not state that the required number of supplies will be used in
one day, but it is the number required to function at full efficiency( these are two different concepts )

I get it better than I write it...maybe... a projection for that day of "required number of supplies" to function at "full efficiency".

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 11/11/2016 1:56:14 PM >

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Post #: 28

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 10:28:51 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

As far as I know the number required is an estimate for the next 30 days, but it can vary a lot depending on
what is happening. Note that the manual does not state that the required number of supplies will be used in
one day, but it is the number required to function at full efficiency( these are two different concepts )

Yeah, the base's estimated needs are based on the usage in a period of time leading up to that date - I don't recall if it was a week or a month period. So if you had a big battle going on that used a lot of supply but you eliminated the enemy and now are in R&R mode, you can expect that real need is less than the estimate on screen. Similarly, if you just brought in a few squadrons of 4E bombers to start a campaign against enemy bases you can project an increase in usage.

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Post #: 29

RE: Check my base resupply estimates planning - 11/10/2016 10:40:41 PM

MakeeLearn

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...and you can bump it up, with the spinner, to pull in more supplies, but there is a minimum set by AI.

"Supply needs are an estimate of future needs based on recent supply usage." recent???

from what others say and my own deductions. It's not a exact science.... the wind is changing.

which is good... no repeating recipe

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 11/10/2016 10:50:30 PM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 30