RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A)

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RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/13/2016 8:37:46 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
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From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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Thanks Andav, especially for pointing-out getting a unit at Pegu. Good eye.

Rio has cut the line to Magwe and tried to cut it north of Toungoo but got booted.

The main islands in the Marianas are forts six and still expanding one airfield. The Bonins are all forts four and building. Naha in forts six and air field eight and the other Okinawas are building.

I am not going higher than forts six as I notice the "Building Fortifications" turns red which I assume means, expensive.

What about the atolls and little islands in the Marianas and in and around Okinawa? Do you do anything with them?

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to Andav)

Post #: 661

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/13/2016 10:11:48 AM

PaxMondo

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Just remember, the allies beginning in '44 can land and take anything (just like the IJ in '42). Forts are only there to give you time for your reaction forces, so those forces are what matter most. How high you build your forts depends upon how fast you will be able to react (number of turns). This takes a lot of thought and not a little practice (sandboxing) to work out.

Fort Level 6 is max for a lot of islands, above 6 elsewhere requires min 20K supply and costs double the normal build time. i.e. really expensive.

You really need to think through your defense. Anything above Fort 3 you need to understand why. Realize that the allies only need to invade 1 island per group in most cases, after that they just isolate and move on if you cannot react and re-take it. That means all of those other forces are stranded and die AND all of that supply building forts on those other islands was wasted.

I'm not saying your don't build above Fort 3, but you need to understand why you need to (for example: you need another turn to arrive with reaction forces that fort level 3 won't give you). Also note, your reaction forces have to be sufficient to fight the allies off the beach. If you can't muster that (and by late '44 it is hard to do so anywhere beyond the PI), then you can't react and you need to get those forces inside your perimeter ... meaning your perimeter always shrinks intentionally.

EX: Bonins. These are really hard to defend no matter what you do. The issue is that by the time (hopefully) the allies arrive to take these, the Deathstar is now well over 1500 AC. That means you need 3000 AC to crack through. The KB will only be ~800 AC at best, so you would need 2200 AC on the ground. Looking at the islands, it is so difficult to come up with any way to base that many aircraft successfully that you likely come away and say you can't. Since you can't, it means you cannot successfully react to an invasion there and so no matter what you do you will lose the Bonins. Fort levels will only delay the outcome by a few days at most. Is the ~100K supply and all those crack units in defense on every island worth 2 or 3 days defense? Tough question and tougher answers.

Now ask those same questions about the PI or Formosa. Yeah, you can get a MUCH different answer. Why? You can see ways to base enough aircraft easily (of course you actually need to have that many, but that's what your production planning is all about). Further, both locations can be supplied. All of this is of course a lot easier to implement if CHI is out of the war (taking CK is important) because not only do you have another 20 ID to release, but you have all of those air groups ....

Just throwing things up at the wall for you here. I see you focusing on fort building, but not sure in what context. The only place fort building makes absolute sense is where you have no intention to retreat. So, building forts in the HI ... yeah, no brainer. Everywhere else though, you need to think carefully and you need to have your reaction forces thought through before you build a fort. Just my thoughts ...

Yeah, I hate wasting supply (or anything else) ...

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 662

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/13/2016 10:28:24 AM

PaxMondo

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I'll also suggest reading a lot of AAR's, but just look at the last few pages. Look at where the units are. In so many AAR's, the IJ has less than 50% of her units in the HI ... all of the others got isolated and that contributed heavily to the outcome. In total numbers, the allies and the IJ have roughly the same numbers of total AV. By '44 the allies have a LOT more firepower though. However, if the IJ can keep her forces intact, pull her perimeter in, not allow forces to be stranded and whither, it makes all the difference.

So many times the allies have taken Okinawa and the IJ still holds the DEI strongly ... all of those ID's and base forces are completely out of the war, forces that are desperately needed in defense have been totally neutralized by simply ignoring them. The allies do not need the DEI at all, other than Singers for the naval yard.

My point is, in addition to have reaction forces ready to counter invasions, be sure you have an extraction plan for every unit and the assets in place to effect that plan. Every unit you leave in isolation is a unit the allies 'killed' without expending anything and the IJ cannot afford that at all. They need every unit in defense.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 9/13/2016 10:29:29 AM >

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Pax

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Post #: 663

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/13/2016 1:21:04 PM

Andav

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quote:

be sure you have an extraction plan for every unit and the assets in place to effect that plan.

This is really important since in the end you will need every unit. I was pretty woeful at this in some places and pretty efficient in others. Like I said before, my Burma army was very nicely flanked and destroyed. I had the same issue in Indochina when witpqs landed at Cam Ranh Bay. Another entire army flanked. I did a better job by the time we were fighting around Hanoi and into China but it really cost me a lot of units. Pulling out of the DEI and the area around Timor, I was much better. This is one of the places where the extensive fleet of transport aircraft really helps. Many of the units that ended up in the PI were flown out of the little bases around Timor and such to Davo and then flown to Manila or put on ships.

Especially watch for CD units and base forces with CD guns. You do not have near enough of these and they will need ships to transport them. Get them out early and often.

quote:

Naha in forts six and air field eight and the other Okinawas are building.

When building airfields of that size, think in terms of "Where do I want to give the Allies an airfield where they can immediately start to bomb me." This is another one of those fine lines. You need enough airfields to have several supporting each other and you need them big enough to support enough planes to be effective. Pax is right when he says if the Allies want a base, they will take it. Even a large airfield damaged 100% will be operational in a few days with Allied engineers.

Wa

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 664

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/13/2016 2:37:35 PM

el lobo

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Thanks Pax. Solid advise as usual.

The reason I ask about the PI is that njp was concerned that he did not have enough in the PIs. I want to try to not make the same mistake but obviously it is a delicate balance.

I started building forts from the HI out so fortunately I have not built too many outside of what I mentioned, and in Burma.

Andev, it looks like you and Pax are of the same thinking regarding pulling in the perimeter, and I agree.

I have mentioned before that I think that Rio is going to use some of the same tactics as witpqs. He has said that he wants China back. I hope he means all of it.

Thanks to both of you again. I have a lot of homework to do.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to Andav)

Post #: 665

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/14/2016 3:24:44 AM

PaxMondo

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Good Luck!

PI should be defensible if, and it is a big IF, you don't lose too many assets in the DEI. My goal for the DEI is only until 6/44. After that ....

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Pax

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Post #: 666

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 9/14/2016 1:26:21 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I'll also suggest reading a lot of AAR's, but just look at the last few pages. Look at where the units are. In so many AAR's, the IJ has less than 50% of her units in the HI ... all of the others got isolated and that contributed heavily to the outcome. In total numbers, the allies and the IJ have roughly the same numbers of total AV. By '44 the allies have a LOT more firepower though. However, if the IJ can keep her forces intact, pull her perimeter in, not allow forces to be stranded and whither, it makes all the difference.

So many times the allies have taken Okinawa and the IJ still holds the DEI strongly ... all of those ID's and base forces are completely out of the war, forces that are desperately needed in defense have been totally neutralized by simply ignoring them. The allies do not need the DEI at all, other than Singers for the naval yard.

My point is, in addition to have reaction forces ready to counter invasions, be sure you have an extraction plan for every unit and the assets in place to effect that plan. Every unit you leave in isolation is a unit the allies 'killed' without expending anything and the IJ cannot afford that at all. They need every unit in defense.

I'll reiterate this myself - only AV that's garrisoning the Home Islands is defending the Home Islands.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 667

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/6/2016 10:37:20 PM

el lobo

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With Rio having extensive personal matters with which to attend and me doing my annual trip back the the USA, we have obviously taken a break.

One of the highlights of my trip was the First Annual Conference of the Commanders attended by myself, Rio Bravo, and Captain Haggard hosted by the Rio Bravo B,B,B,B&B in the quiet hills above Grass Valley, CA. There was much merry making and Op Sec often became a problem.

We had decided months earlier that each of us was to give a report on a subject of our choice. Capt. Haggard gave an excellent report on the Russo-Japanese War of 1904 complete with maps and photos. He followed-up with a Japanese made movie about the same and we later watched a Japanese made move titled "Zero."

I gave mine on the Bataan Death March with emphasis on ways the Game has changed my perspective on parts of my life. Some thirty years ago while gold panning back in the woods further above Grass Valley, I ran into an old Marine who had survived the March. Not being an astute student of history, I knew little more than that there was a Death March. Years later, closer to the present, I now realize that I missed a great opportunity to learn more about an important part of our history simply because I did not know which questions to ask.

Another example. At a party earlier on this trip, I was seated next to a Filipino gentleman. I ask where he was from originally and lo and behold, I knew where that was. I mentioned that I knew where that was because of this game I am playing and I talked about the game a little. After a little more discussion and a few more glasses of wine, the gentleman confided in me that his parents had served on Corregidor and were captured by the Japanese. It was not a pretty story. This time I knew what to ask, and not ask.

There are others, like while visiting my cousin in Albuquerque and driving past the Bataan Death March Memorial Park and later learning that many of the GIs at Bataan were from New Mexico.

Is this a great "game" or what?

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 668

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/6/2016 10:57:55 PM

el lobo

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Thanks Pax and mind_messing.

Considering the above, I have stopped expanding at all bases that are not near the next level until I decide where to build strong defenses. I am also pulling back my reaction forces to less exposed positions.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 669

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/6/2016 11:00:42 PM

el lobo

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ADAK ISLAND Jan 28, 1943 Turn 418

Question: What do I put there?

----------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Adak Island (162,52)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 41759 troops, 395 guns, 121 vehicles, Assault Value = 1360

Defending force 11630 troops, 172 guns, 286 vehicles, Assault Value = 181

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 2162

Allied adjusted defense: 457

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Adak Island !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 670

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/8/2016 4:58:51 AM

el lobo

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I find it interesting as to what some people call "gamey."

It is a purely subjective term with no formal, or agreed upon criteria. Essentially it is a meaningless term.

On the other hand, the Devs have created several tools. I suspect that some are based on historical situations, to make game playing easier, or, for reasons that are unknown to us players. These tools include things like, "magic move", pilot training from day one, ZOC, hexside control, instant pilot replacements, the magic highway, R&D, aircraft/engine production, resizing of air groups, etc. Obviously many of these are Japanese options only.

All of these tools could be, many have been, called gamey by someone.

There are also exploits that may be caused by coding errors, unintended consequences of coding, or something overlooked. Most of these have been pointed out and corrected, others may be being used unbeknownst by the player.

Having said all of that, I just closed the fifth hexside of Chungking and will close the other soon.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 671

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/8/2016 11:59:06 AM

PaxMondo

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Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

ADAK ISLAND Jan 28, 1943 Turn 418

Question: What do I put there?

----------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Adak Island (162,52)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 41759 troops, 395 guns, 121 vehicles, Assault Value = 1360

Defending force 11630 troops, 172 guns, 286 vehicles, Assault Value = 181

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 2162

Allied adjusted defense: 457

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Adak Island !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Like everything, your decision needs to fit in as part of an overall strategy.

For me, Adak is generally quite simple. It is a key road bump to the northern invasion route. Owning it shields Hokkaido ... note I say shields, not defends.

So, I want Adak held strongly, not that I can hold against a determined attack. Rather, I want to force a determined attack so that I know my enemy intentions AND give me time to fully fortify Hokkaido.

This is also a location where it is difficult to have a suitable reaction force ... so these tend to be kami troops. Something like 1xID, 1xARM Bde, arty, cd?, AA, fighters, patrol, Netties.

I wanna see him coming, and force him to bring the DeathStar.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 672

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/8/2016 12:01:51 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Having said all of that, I just closed the fifth hexside of Chungking and will close the other soon. [/size]

[

Be sure you have thought that through before you do. Once you ring that bell, it cannot be unrung....

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 673

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/8/2016 1:32:38 PM

el lobo

Posts: 825
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From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Be sure you have thought that through before you do. Once you ring that bell, it cannot be unrung....

Pax, thanks for the advise on Adak.

I have done a lot of research, for me, and I have thought it through.

I am going with Lokasenna on this one. His view (paraphrasing) is after going to all of the trouble of reducing forts and finally kicking them out, why spend months chasing them down, killing them off, isolating them, or blocking them? Having experienced this first-hand for the last year, I agree.

Rio has been moving units out of CK and they are headed toward Burma. I have effectively blocked them and for the most part have isolated them north of the CK-Kunming Road in mountain and rough wood terrain. They are moving very slow and easily out-maneuvered and out-ran. However, the units that I am using to do this would be better used in CK or elsewhere. Controlling the hexside has put a stop to this disruption.

It has also freed-up four IDs which are moving to Chengtu along with five other Regiment/Brigade size units. I have bombed the airfield daily since my last attack and there has almost always been airfield damage so the forts there should still be at two. I am confident that I will be able to kick him out of there. Once I do that will free-up eight IDs, six of which will move to CK to take up battle there. The other two will head toward Burma with a bunch of arty. Rio's units that are kicked-out of Chengtu will again be in mountain and rough wood terrain and I will have enough units available to keep them there until (if?) they die-out.

Fingers crossed.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 674

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/11/2016 7:05:30 AM

el lobo

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PRODUCTION Feb 1, 1943 Turn 422

Accelerated this month.

Oscar -43-IV 10/43
D4Y3 Judy 1/44
Ha-43 6/45

My first Ki-84a Frank location fully repaired last week.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 675

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/16/2016 2:25:23 AM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

PRODUCTION Feb 1, 1943 Turn 422

Accelerated this month.

My first Ki-84a Frank location fully repaired last week.

Always nice to get that first Frank RnD going ... you'll be surprised how much it seems to help with the others in repairing.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 676

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/16/2016 6:20:04 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Always nice to get that first Frank RnD going ... you'll be surprised how much it seems to help with the others in repairing.

Good to hear that. The J2M2 Jack just accelerated to 3/43 and should start producing the last week of Feb.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 677

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/16/2016 6:23:56 AM

el lobo

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BURMA-CHINA Feb 5, 1943 Turn 426

I am not sure what is happening in Burma.

Rio has stooped bombarding east of Ramree and in Schwebo and is moving troops again.

The large group east of Ramree has gone from seventy units to fifty-nine with the exiting units moving north of Rumree and then it appears to be moving east from there. I suspect he may be getting ready to move into Magwe. I am surprised that he did not go there in the first place but I think that he thought that he would waltz in to Prome basically unscathed.

He has also moved a unit out of Shwebo.

The only real action has been in the hex west of Paoshan. I think his original intention was to open a route into China but bumping into Four Divisions surprised him. I have been DAing there whenever supplies allow and he has been moving units in and out, maybe to rest them. I am still hoping to move him out of there one of these days.

In China two IDs and one Armor Div are in positions in hexes next to Chengtu and waiting for the fourth ID to arrive. It is about four days out. One Brigade is in position and one or two are a week to ten days out. They may have to join the party a little late. Two more Brigades are two weeks out. Daily bombing has been producing small but steady rates.

I am also moving blocking units into Tsuyung and the hex north of there. I am confident that I will have enough to hold these hexes until reinforcements arrive. Tsuyung is forts three.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 678

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/18/2016 1:13:19 AM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

The J2M2 Jack just accelerated to 3/43 and should start producing the last week of Feb.

What production rate are you planning for it?

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 679

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/18/2016 1:15:58 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

I am confident that I will have enough to hold these hexes until reinforcements arrive. T

So this is early '43 so the allied firepower hasn't increased that much. Just be aware that as '43 ends this changes and you need to be careful ... firepower is what fuels attack even at what appears to be even AV ...

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 680

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/18/2016 4:10:10 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
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From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

What production rate are you planning for it?

This is a good and timely question as I have been thinking about it.

The short answer is, probably not too large of a production because I want to rely more on the George. The George should be here about 6/43 or sooner and I want just enough Jacks to fill the gap in Burma until it arrives. I am thinking maybe just four or five units plus some replacements.

Of the six locations now R&Ding, I am thinking of moving three on-to the J2M3 and moving three to the Sam.

I am interested in your thoughts.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 681

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/18/2016 4:14:50 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
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From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

So this is early '43 so the allied firepower hasn't increased that much. Just be aware that as '43 ends this changes and you need to be careful ... firepower is what fuels attack even at what appears to be even AV ...

These are some beat-up Chinese units trying to move out of China and I suspect they have little or no supply. If all goes according to plan, I will crush them in the not to distant future.

But thanks for the info on firepower. I will keep it in mind as we go.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 682

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/18/2016 10:51:43 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

What production rate are you planning for it?

This is a good and timely question as I have been thinking about it.

The short answer is, probably not too large of a production because I want to rely more on the George. The George should be here about 6/43 or sooner and I want just enough Jacks to fill the gap in Burma until it arrives. I am thinking maybe just four or five units plus some replacements.

Of the six locations now R&Ding, I am thinking of moving three on-to the J2M3 and moving three to the Sam.

I am interested in your thoughts.

George/Jack are the same plane in terms of uses. I would think in terms of total combined production of the two first, then see how you want to split them. I never research both. I choose one at the beginning (coin flip).

Think of them as the IJN "Tojo". Actually, they are better, but the idea still holds. They can be used in place of the Zero except when you need the range. I am prejudiced slightly towards the George, only because the one model has effective range to escort; however, it isn't that big of a deal. So, just like the Tojo gets you away from Oscar, the Jack/George get you away from the Zero for your LBA fighter groups.

Difference being that your IJN "Frank", the SAM, is a LONG way off and so you have to use the Jack/George almost the whole game.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 683

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/18/2016 10:53:49 PM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

So this is early '43 so the allied firepower hasn't increased that much. Just be aware that as '43 ends this changes and you need to be careful ... firepower is what fuels attack even at what appears to be even AV ...

These are some beat-up Chinese units trying to move out of China and I suspect they have little or no supply. If all goes according to plan, I will crush them in the not to distant future.

But thanks for the info on firepower. I will keep it in mind as we go.

Yeah, the '44 US upgrade gets the US INF squads over 2x the firepower of the IJ squads and that doesn't count all the arty inherent in the US ID's .... that's how they rout you out of 3x terrain ... the firepower trashes your units before contact and then they are able to make up the 3x defensive terrain.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 684

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/19/2016 12:57:50 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

George/Jack are the same plane in terms of uses. I would think in terms of total combined production of the two first, then see how you want to split them. I never research both. I choose one at the beginning (coin flip).

Think of them as the IJN "Tojo". Actually, they are better, but the idea still holds. They can be used in place of the Zero except when you need the range. I am prejudiced slightly towards the George, only because the one model has effective range to escort; however, it isn't that big of a deal. So, just like the Tojo gets you away from Oscar, the Jack/George get you away from the Zero for your LBA fighter groups.

Difference being that your IJN "Frank", the SAM, is a LONG way off and so you have to use the Jack/George almost the whole game.

I concur with all of this.

Looking over my Production locations, there is only one or two locations available that I am willing to change a/c type. So, as much as I hate to, I think I am going to let one of the Jack R&D locations go into production. I will change one of the other mentioned and get-up to sixty factories a month, with-in a month, to start.

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 685

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/19/2016 1:08:03 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
Status: offline

BURMA-CHINA Feb 6, 1943 Turn 427

We finally routed this group west of Paoshan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 64,45 (near Paoshan)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 40410 troops, 449 guns, 745 vehicles, Assault Value = 1097

Defending force 5516 troops, 155 guns, 39 vehicles, Assault Value = 146

Japanese adjusted assault: 634

Allied adjusted defense: 268

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), op mode(-), leaders(+), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
746 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 80 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled
Vehicles lost 38 (4 destroyed, 34 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1799 casualties reported
Squads: 77 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 87 destroyed, 28 disabled
Engineers: 12 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 56 (33 destroyed, 23 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (5 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Units retreated 3

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 686

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/19/2016 11:19:03 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

George/Jack are the same plane in terms of uses. I would think in terms of total combined production of the two first, then see how you want to split them. I never research both. I choose one at the beginning (coin flip).

Think of them as the IJN "Tojo". Actually, they are better, but the idea still holds. They can be used in place of the Zero except when you need the range. I am prejudiced slightly towards the George, only because the one model has effective range to escort; however, it isn't that big of a deal. So, just like the Tojo gets you away from Oscar, the Jack/George get you away from the Zero for your LBA fighter groups.

Difference being that your IJN "Frank", the SAM, is a LONG way off and so you have to use the Jack/George almost the whole game.

I concur with all of this.

Looking over my Production locations, there is only one or two locations available that I am willing to change a/c type. So, as much as I hate to, I think I am going to let one of the Jack R&D locations go into production. I will change one of the other mentioned and get-up to sixty factories a month, with-in a month, to start.

So, that means you are going to support 2 - 3 groups in operation. Cool. You'll like Jack after Zero. DUR change will make you smile. Your losses will drop off noticeably and the effect of rest will be more pronounced.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 687

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/23/2016 3:19:55 AM

el lobo

Posts: 825
Joined: 7/20/2013
From: Khon Kaen, Thailand (orig: Sacramento, CA)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Cool. You'll like Jack after Zero. DUR change will make you smile. Your losses will drop off noticeably and the effect of rest will be more pronounced.

I'm looking forward to them Pax. I am going to need some good bomber killers in the near future I'm thinking.

BURMA-CHINA Feb 9, 1943 Turn 430

The DA at Chengtu went as expected. Hopefully another in about two weeks will finish it off.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Chengtu (75,41)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 114058 troops, 1451 guns, 955 vehicles, Assault Value = 3829

Defending force 129760 troops, 254 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4083

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 1442

Allied adjusted defense: 5937

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 4 (fort level 1)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
20440 casualties reported
Squads: 185 destroyed, 1530 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 86 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 261 disabled
Guns lost 173 (8 destroyed, 165 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
3734 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 277 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 153 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled

The Japanese High Command is celebrating the first major assault of the war by the Allies, a Shock attack actually. We hope the rest go as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Lashio (62,46)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 4616 troops, 117 guns, 171 vehicles, Assault Value = 396

Defending force 16276 troops, 170 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 555

Allied adjusted assault: 0

Japanese adjusted defense: 1702

Allied assault odds: 1 to 99 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Allied ground losses:
1699 casualties reported
Squads: 154 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 108 disabled
Engineers: 12 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 62 (46 destroyed, 16 disabled)
Vehicles lost 33 (4 destroyed, 29 disabled)

_____________________________

El Lobo (J) vs Rio Bravo (A)
Rio Bravo's AAR - "The War College"
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3851786

Gamey is not a game style. It is someone's definition.

(in reply to PaxMondo)

Post #: 688

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/23/2016 8:12:09 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

The Japanese High Command is celebrating the first major assault of the war by the Allies, a Shock attack actually. We hope the rest go as well.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 689

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bra... - 11/23/2016 8:14:08 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

I am going to need some good bomber killers in the near future I'm thinking.

Jack/George is about as good as you get for the IJ ... 4x20mm. You'll wish for something similar for the IJA fighter groups, but ....

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to el lobo)

Post #: 690

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