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Weapon/Vehicle Breakdown - Fixed?

 
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Weapon/Vehicle Breakdown - Fixed? - 5/14/2001 2:27:00 AM   
Peregrine Falcon

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Is this really fixed in 5.0? Or is Mr.Murphy around again? I did lots of tests (curiosity I guess) with "running targets" (trucks) using 20mm AA-guns and machine guns. Some 20mm guns suffered a breakdown, still, crew never managed to fix it during the "battle" (+40 turns) Or are jams modelled as well? If they are, they should be easy fo fix. This happened several times during my tests. During the same timeframe, enemy fixed 3-5 trucks + other "target" units (Jeeps). I can understand this if you have very 'green' crew that have little combat experience, but even then, they should be able to fix jams and breakdowns, even if it takes more time.. (broken spring? jammed bolt? dud?) After all, they are trained to do that - right? Is this how it should be? Vehicles are FAR MORE easier to fix than guns? It think this should be completly the opposite. [ May 13, 2001: Message edited by: Peregrine Falcon ]

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- 5/14/2001 2:38:00 AM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I'd be also interested knowing this...in the game I'm currently playing I've gotten 2 weapon breakdowns among 60 or so units. Neither of these has been fixed..first one has been broken for about 10 turns. With vehicles I've gotten some breakdowns, and some repairs too..never gotten a weapon repair yet. I think that with weapons the repair should be either relatively easy (jam) or not during the game (broken parts) Voriax

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Post #: 2
- 5/14/2001 3:46:00 AM   
headhunter

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 5/8/2000
Status: offline 		I've asked myself the same ... seen some vehicle breakdowns & fixes but never has a weapon in the last 8 battles been fixed. I don't think this does work yet. :(

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Post #: 3
- 5/14/2001 3:53:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		My experience has been that it has been toned down considerably from what it was. I remember well testing Watchword Freedom, the first battle, and having two Tigers and two Panthers with no main gun. Then one of those Tigers plus another had movement breakdown. Needless to say... But in 5.0-5.1 I have been pretty pleased with what I have seen. Of course in scenario play, even one breakdown can be crucial and you feel that it is too many :eek:. I will run a few more tests just to verify your findings...WB

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Post #: 4
- 5/14/2001 4:11:00 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		I, myself have noticed a great difference. I still have an occassional tank, get stuck in a creek, but so far, hardly any weapons breakdown(still a few but not 5 or 6 on first shot as before), or any vehicle breakdown on "normal" terrain.

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Post #: 5
- 5/14/2001 4:13:00 AM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Bill, you are right. The weapon breakdowns are much rarer now. In fact so rare that I've switched the weapon breakdown option back on :) It just feels that they'll never get fixed.... Voriax

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Post #: 6
- 5/14/2001 4:28:00 AM   
Peregrine Falcon

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Weapon jams and breakdowns should happen more often IMO, but repairs/unjams should take only a turn or two (Crew experience should help thinks a bit) Vehicles.....Fixing a tank track should take some time - would it? Or fixing a gearbox, or maybe flat tire?

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Post #: 7
- 5/14/2001 7:22:00 AM   
Mike Rothery

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		I had an MG34 unit have a break down of its MG34. That's the first time I ever recall having an infantry unit suffer a weapon failure.

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MikeR

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Post #: 8
- 5/14/2001 8:26:00 AM   
achappelle

 

Posts: 150
Joined: 5/11/2001
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline 		I agree, the frequency of vehicle breakdowns is much less in "virgin" terrain, meaning open, flat, uncratered. That's great for me, I can run my hordes of t34s down the German's flank. It seems to me that, yes, the majority of vehicle breakdowns will be of the sort that can't be fixed in a short time frame, whereas a jam can be cleared, barrel on an MG changed much quicker. Maybe code could be added for engineering vehicles to increase the chance of a vehicle repair with a one time chance to fix, but otherwise make it next to impossible to get the big beasts going again, imagine changing a track on your favorite panzer, in the middle of battle with 122 shells, screaming katys and every other piece of hardware falling on you.

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Post #: 9
- 5/14/2001 4:01:00 PM   
Kharan

 

Posts: 505
Joined: 5/9/2000
Status: offline 		Has anyone seen a weapon getting repaired, ever? Could be a bug...

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Post #: 10
- 5/14/2001 4:36:00 PM   
Peregrine Falcon

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Kharan: Has anyone seen a weapon getting repaired, ever? Could be a bug...
I tried this already in 4.5. Guns were never fixed, vehicles were. Now weapon breakdowns are very rare (5.0), but I think this is a real fat bug we are seeing here: Weapons are still never repaired, ever.

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Post #: 11
- 5/14/2001 9:26:00 PM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		We will look into it... There sems to be some problems with some of teh randomization - has anyone ever seen a HEAT round NOT have its listed pen value...or pen/5? IT should be changing but doesn't seem to be...We will look into it

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Post #: 12
- 5/15/2001 4:20:00 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Peregrine Falcon: I tried this already in 4.5. Guns were never fixed, vehicles were. Now weapon breakdowns are very rare (5.0), but I think this is a real fat bug we are seeing here: Weapons are still never repaired, ever.
Some breakdowns just can't be repaired with a turn of a wrench. I was just reading a book about the war in the desert the other day, and one problem there was sand getting in the recoil track. When a gun was fired it recoiled back and got stuck in somewhere in the rear position, since the recoil hydrolics weren't strong enough to break the barrel loose again. This is depot level maintenance, you send the gun back for repair and hope you get it back before you need it again. Also in the book was the admission of a German tanker that he knew how to break the fan belt on the tanks motor just by steering the tank a certain way. Anytime he wanted out of a battle, instant breakdown. thanks, John.

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Post #: 13
- 5/15/2001 4:43:00 AM   
Peregrine Falcon

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by john g: Some breakdowns just can't be repaired with a turn of a wrench. I was just reading a book about the war in the desert the other day, and one problem there was sand getting in the recoil track. When a gun was fired it recoiled back and got stuck in somewhere in the rear position, since the recoil hydrolics weren't strong enough to break the barrel loose again. This is depot level maintenance, you send the gun back for repair and hope you get it back before you need it again. Also in the book was the admission of a German tanker that he knew how to break the fan belt on the tanks motor just by steering the tank a certain way. Anytime he wanted out of a battle, instant breakdown. thanks, John.
True. Some breakdowns should belong to this category. Some broken parts cannot be repaired/replaced in combat conditions. Its just that player does not know when repair is impossible. Maybe some sort of reading could help, but that could be hard to code..Like : "Weapon Breakdown. Possibility of repair: 87%" That story about German tanker is quite familiar....now where I have heard it before? :rolleyes:

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Post #: 14
- 5/15/2001 10:16:00 AM   
BruceAZ


Posts: 608
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: California
Status: offline 		My experience has been to see a marked improvement. The breakdowns seem less frequent and I even had some fix themselves and move on. To tell the truth, I am quite happy with it! I now try and stay away from certain terrain that causes higher probility (sp?) of breakdown. My current breakdown rate was 4 in 38 vehicles of which two were my fault as I took wheeled vehicles in terrain where they do not belong. I think this is what they intended to do. Bruce Semper Fi

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Post #: 15
- 5/15/2001 6:11:00 PM   
Arralen


Posts: 827
Joined: 5/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Peregrine Falcon: I tried this already in 4.5. Guns were never fixed, vehicles were.
I had a main gun on a Japs Tank repaired in V4.5 . But it broke down in turn 5 and was fixed in turn 33 (or something like this..) Dunno about v5.01 ... download at 56% :) A.

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Post #: 16
- 5/15/2001 6:35:00 PM   
Mikimoto

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 11/6/2000
From: Barcelona, Catalunya
Status: offline 		Hello. In version 4.5 there were a lot more vehicle/weapons breakdowns that in 5.01. Toned down a lot, as promised. I never saw a weapon repaired in 4.5. Well, actually, when a vehicle losed the main gun I sended to the rearguard, and forgive it. The weapons breakdown was a funny thing when it was my Infantry squads grenades that failed (sabotage!!!), but a lot of LMG's failed too, mainly overheated barrels in defense (too much fire), also failed AT-Rifles, BAR's, rifle-grenades, etc.. don't remember if things like AT-mines and molotovs failed. And never saw a repair. But I give no pause to my troops, and it can be a negative effect on repairing? I'll watch this on 5.01.

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Post #: 17
- 5/15/2001 6:45:00 PM   
Peregrine Falcon

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Arralen: I had a main gun on a Japs Tank repaired in V4.5 . But it broke down in turn 5 and was fixed in turn 33 (or something like this..) Dunno about v5.01 ... download at 56% :) A.
Well, that is rare. Or should be. I never saw any repairs done, even with several big tests (+40 turn truck-massacres, using company size MG/tank units)

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Post #: 18
- 5/16/2001 12:47:00 AM   
murx

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline 		I had lots of both Weapons & Movement breakdowns in 4.5 and now in 5.01 too (cause I mainly use large battles with hundreds of units). I agree that in 4.5 vehicles were repaired slowly but that felt allright, but never untill now saw a single weapon repaired. Be it small arms (MG) or big gun. Maybe there should be different repair classes mainly based on primary & secondary weapon. German MG units (afaik all units that had a MG) had always a spare barrel & breach with them - so it would take about 1-3 minutes (depends on supression & experience) to change the breach, 20-30 seconds for the barrel. So switching all MGs to secundary weapon slots and having a different repair chance for primary and all secondary weapons could help. Repairing a larger weapon sure takes long (maybe the ride to the repair depot) but still weapons like the MK20 or even the 3.7mm PAK type guns should be possible. murx

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Post #: 19
- 5/16/2001 7:38:00 AM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I think someone need to take another look at the breakdown routine. I am about 2/3 of the way through my third battle of a WWII Campain playing the Germans (vs the British). And so far out of the 7 AC's I have had three 20mm break, 4 CMG break, out of three MK III one 37mm break, in my company of Mech Inf only one MG34 has broken. Out of two MKIV one has suffered a broken 75mm and the other a broken CMG. In a AA Platoon I have had one 37mm break. This is more breakdowns in one game than I have had in any campain in v4.5. I can not believe my luck could be so bad. None have been fixed. And the British Tanks notorious for breaking run fine.

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Post #: 20
- 5/18/2001 12:45:00 PM   
Gloo

 

Posts: 272
Joined: 4/4/2001
From: Chapelle-Guillaume
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Peregrine Falcon: ...Fixing a tank track should take some time - would it?...
I guess it depends on the reliability of the vehicule but for tanks, it doesn't seem to be as long as we could suppose. As I reported in another thread, the Schwere Panzerabteilung 503 lost 34 Tigers out of 44 between 5th and 8th of July 43. 32 were damaged and two permanently lost. On July the 8th, 33 Tigers were fixed and operationnal... . Only 10 of them needing between 8 hours and more than a week to be repaired definitly (replacement parts to be delivered I guess). [ May 18, 2001: Message edited by: Gloo ]

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Post #: 21
- 5/18/2001 4:50:00 PM   
Sunder

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 5/18/2001
From: Finland
Status: offline 		uh... its great to play version 4.5 if you have for example 10 german "super tanks" you can be sure that 2 of thouse brekdowns in allmost beginning of the battle ..... :confused: oh and mainguns allso brouks fast during the battle :eek:

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Post #: 22
- 5/18/2001 6:47:00 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I have considered the break downs and have come to the conclusion that in a combat sitiuation if a weapon can not be repaired in 10-15 min. it can not be repaired outside of an armory. In game turns this translates to 'if it's not repaired in the first three to four turns then it's lost for the game'. I don't know how the repair routine works but if it could be tweaked to give a higher repair probility for the first three to four turns after malfunctioning, I think we would have a much more realistic breakdown/repair routine. Vehical breakdown and repair I think is well done. And Matrix is doing a wonderful job of working with a program that appears to actively resist changes. :)

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Post #: 23
- 5/19/2001 5:01:00 AM   
Mikimoto

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 11/6/2000
From: Barcelona, Catalunya
Status: offline 		Hello. I would know if repairing breakdowns is OK and how it works. What affects? Remain stationary?, out of sight of enemy?, other modifiers? Or it is a bug and isn't working?

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Post #: 24
- 5/19/2001 6:23:00 AM   
Mikimoto

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 11/6/2000
From: Barcelona, Catalunya
Status: offline 		Hello again. I have played the Flanking tutorial right now. Ten minutes of heavy fighting. One tank, a Kv1, suffers a breakdown result in turn one, it becomes inmovilized during four turns. In turn five it is repaired!!! And a message notices it to me!!! Wonderfull. It works!!!. :D :D :D By the way, the score is: Germans: 25 man killed and five tanks knocked Soviets: 0 man killed and 0 tanks knocked. But two have destroyed the main gun. :(

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Post #: 25
- 5/28/2001 8:26:00 AM   
Gloo

 

Posts: 272
Joined: 4/4/2001
From: Chapelle-Guillaume
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Mikimoto: ...It works!!!...
Yes it does but no way to repair damaged weapons... ! :confused:

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