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Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/1/2016 9:43:51 AM

Kantti

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Joined: 6/10/2016
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I am nearing the first blizzard ever against a human player (me playing Axis). It has been years since I played the game against AI and it was with standard Blizzard. For standard Bliz there was tons of guides how to cope with it (send best units to germany, send LW to germany, send SU's to germany or keep in cities, retreat couple hexes in time).

With mild blizzard I am a bit lost. How do german units react to mild blizzard? Is it still needed to send units to winter holidays to Germany or are good forts+cities enough? Any other basic tips for mild blizzard?

In the game I am in fairly good position with Leningrad and Moscow captured, but just falling short of Rostov. So I am enticed to fight in winter, but I don't know if it is viable under mild blizzard -option.

Post #: 1

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/1/2016 9:50:38 AM

morvael

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Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
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Dig in early (to get at least level 2 forts) in good terrain (behind rivers too, until they freeze completely they will be an obstacle) and try to hold, counterattacking with mobile forces to keep the line static (and preserve forts on the flanks of the contested terrain, you would have to abandon without a fight otherwise). Try to rotate beaten units to forts, replacing them with "fresh" ones. Try to rest some panzer corps in a city behind a front if you can spare one or two. Refill fighting units from air (moving airbases near) with ammo and fuel, otherwise they will be weaker and easier to defeat, as your land resupply also suffers in first winter (especially in December and to a lesser degree in January).

(in reply to Kantti)

Post #: 2

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/1/2016 10:32:34 AM

821Bobo

Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
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Soviet attack bonus is also huge factor in mild blizzard. If you are playing without the bonus winter will be cakewalk for you.

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 3

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/1/2016 11:27:04 AM

Kantti

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Joined: 6/10/2016
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Thank you for the tips.

Yes, we're playing without attack bonus as it seemed on quick glance to be a standard on the many AAR's here. Is there any consensus on the options (mild/normal, attack bonus/no bonus) at current balance of the game?

(in reply to 821Bobo)

Post #: 4

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/1/2016 12:05:59 PM

821Bobo

Posts: 2311
Joined: 2/8/2011
From: Slovakia
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No there isn't consensus. But as you will see in your game, if your units will be at least in level 2 forts, Soviets won't be able to make any big push. Definitely you don't have to worry. You can check this AAR. German perspective, mild blizzard, no bonus.

(in reply to Kantti)

Post #: 5

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/1/2016 12:16:51 PM

morvael

Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
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And this one is from Soviet perspective.

(in reply to 821Bobo)

Post #: 6

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/1/2016 1:37:54 PM

TheOne

Posts: 52
Joined: 10/26/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kantti

I am nearing the first blizzard ever against a human player (me playing Axis). It has been years since I played the game against AI and it was with standard Blizzard. For standard Bliz there was tons of guides how to cope with it (send best units to germany, send LW to germany, send SU's to germany or keep in cities, retreat couple hexes in time).

With mild blizzard I am a bit lost. How do german units react to mild blizzard?
Is it still needed to send units to winter holidays to Germany or are good forts+cities enough? Any other basic tips for mild blizzard?

In the game I am in fairly good position with Leningrad and Moscow captured, but just falling short of Rostov.
So I am enticed to fight in winter, but I don't know if it is viable under mild blizzard -option.

Oka north hole the lines and Oka south you can retreat if not dugin 1-2 hexes per turn during Dec.

It is critical now with the .01 patch that you still put panzers in citys near front or send to Germany, send all SU's to Germany and LW.

Also its critical you DO NOT attack during blizzard as lose ratio/counter attack ratio's have been changed.

Also all Divisions should be set to ready other then panzers in towns and ToE set to 71%,
all SU's in Germany set to 71% ToE other then pioneers set to 100%.

This will greatly lower your manpower/armament loses over the winter.

When March hits turn all Panzer units to ready, lower all SU ToE% to 55% and turn all infantry under 80% ToE to refit.

Once all units are over 80% then set all to refit 93% units, you can play with this, but by June all infantry will be at NM or higher lvls and all over 95% ToE

At some point in June put all Panzer Divisions on refit 93% - all SU's to 71% and all infantry on ready at 93% ToE.

You can at this time also disband a few HQs and AB's.

Your Army should be at max strength with a large pools of man.guns and AFV's for the summer dispite .01 new settings. LW will also be strong.

(in reply to Kantti)

Post #: 7

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/1/2016 2:19:45 PM

EwaldvonKleist

Posts: 2038
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From: Berlin, Germany
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Why set infantry units at Exactly 71%? Is this another magic number like with the HQ TOEs?

(in reply to TheOne)

Post #: 8

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/1/2016 2:31:42 PM

morvael

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Question: what is the relation of manpower saved in blizzard by following TheOne's scenario, to manpower lost having to regain the given up ground (assuming you still plan to get those 260/290VP in 1942, not turtle and await the G�tterd�mmerung). I ask out of curiosity, perhaps the ratio is favourable, I don't know.

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)

Post #: 9

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/1/2016 2:32:37 PM

sillyflower

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No need to reduce to 71% - never seen this advice anywhere else. You have nothing to fear with your optional rules set-up. You need to minimise attrition where you can, but frankly that's not difficult as the R blizzard O will not be very effective so you don't need everyone shivering in the trenches.

In my game I went down to 85% except for mtn units and those refitting back in the warmth of a polish winter. All the average or below inf xx were on 90% TOE much earlier anyway.

Keep your units strong and be ready to start your full spring O in Feb.

I don't agree with the refit advice earlier. Depends on your m/power and arms position but all the pz, mot divs and 80+ morale inf xx should be put at 100%. I also keep SUs at 100% except for heavy arty because you don't ever want to build any 210mm howitzers, for example. I tend to keep these and higher calibre arty at 65% and to use judicious disbands.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 12/2/2016 10:29:16 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 10

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/1/2016 8:13:02 PM

STEF78

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From: Versailles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheOne
[...
Also its critical you DO NOT attack during blizzard as lose ratio/counter attack ratio's have been changed.
...

I respectfully don't agree.

With mild blizzard you will have opportunities to counterattack. Don't let your opponent feel free. See the battle of Stalino Bobo821 vs Stef78

And without soviet bonus, you shouldn't worry.

(in reply to TheOne)

Post #: 11

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/8/2016 6:13:14 PM

EwaldvonKleist

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@sillyflower: Pelton is able to get excellent OOBs with his army. Just look at Steltecks AAR. Its June 1942 and his Germans have 4 million men. or the one against Pitaman with its 4,7 mio men OOB. If your army is 10% smaller, you also need 10% less truck capacity to supply it, probably saving some.

How are your pools at the end of blizzard TheOne?

The questions to consider are:

Less men=>less blizzard attrition=>less losses (+++)
Less men=>lessCV=>more lost battles=>more combat losses and more attrition losses due to destroyed forts (---)
Less men=>more territory lost in blizzard=>more to be taken back=>more combat losses (---)
Less men=>less CV=>more victories for the enemy=>better morale of the Soviets (---)
Less men=>more ground has to be given=>longer supply lines for the Soviets=>more Soviet truck losses (+++)

Are the positive or the negative effects greater?

(in reply to STEF78)

Post #: 12

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/8/2016 7:31:17 PM

Icier

Posts: 564
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TheOne comments are quite intriguing & informative & gives an intelligent slant on how to overcome shortages the German army has in 42 and its nice to read without the distracting cryptic comments.
Good one Pelton!

_____________________________

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

(in reply to TheOne)

Post #: 13

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/8/2016 8:06:16 PM

EwaldvonKleist

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From: Berlin, Germany
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Yes I too prefer the posts which contain less allusions, as it was often very hard to follow the discussion if you do not know the entire story since 2010/11 and only joined the party late (like me).
The blizzard tips post was very good. In general TheOnes Style is good, because he says everything necessary in as few words as possible.

(in reply to Icier)

Post #: 14

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/8/2016 8:13:12 PM

charlie0311

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So... Erik seems to be getting his way... The new Pelton can come back with his real name maybe?? And really maybe.. the designers pay some attention... ps others have noticed and given up (with 2x3) trying to get the game fixed up that is.

The logistics needs work, lots know, few say so..

Yes, if, really IF, you don't use "all out" logistics it's a good game.

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)

Post #: 15

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/8/2016 8:35:40 PM

EwaldvonKleist

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I have worked a little bit into the WITE 1 logistics and not at all in the WITE logistics, but my impression:
WITE 1 has binary supply mechanics and does not model everything in the same way. It is extremely complex in a few areas while on the other hand, it has mechanics at board game level. So it is no miracle that there are exploits.

But still an extraordinary game, thanks to everyone who contributed to make it great

(in reply to charlie0311)

Post #: 16

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/8/2016 9:54:46 PM

morvael

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What's interesting is that this mix of part classic paper wargame and part detailed accounting was actual vision of the designers. It's not a byproduct of compromises that had to be made.

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)

Post #: 17

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/8/2016 10:12:07 PM

EwaldvonKleist

Posts: 2038
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From: Berlin, Germany
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Interesting, thanks for the clarification morvael.
There are many ways to analyze and model war. A non exhaustive list:
1)the narrative way: Stories of single soldiers expressed in novels: Wargame expression: Tactical wargames
2)the classis approach of historicians: analyzing politics, socio-cultural and economical aspects of war in a describing way: Wargame expression: Grand strategy games with diplomacy/roleplay elements (good example is DC: Barbarossa)
3)the military history/physicist approach: Try to analyze and quantify all aspects of the war with the aim on a good model: Wargame expressions: Well researched simulation games: Maybe WITE 2 and for sure Nigel Askeys Project

I prefer the approach number 3). If I deal with and read about WW2, I like to think in number ratios, equilibriums, probability, technical specifications and organisational/army management aspects. Thats why I value Nigel Askeys Books very high. For example, he uses a model of conservation of ressources resembling to the energy conservation in physics.
I would love a game with a logistics model working like a complex system in physics.

I don't have a boardgame or army background, so I don't share some experiences you have.

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 18

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/9/2016 1:59:05 PM

TheOne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

The questions to consider are:

Less men=>less blizzard attrition=>less losses (+++)

Allot less, if you are putting all planes in Reserve, all SU's in OKH in Germany, putting as many Panzer units in cities or Germany.

Less men=>lessCV=>more lost battles=>more combat losses and more attrition losses due to destroyed forts (---)

Remember how blizzard works, Dec is bad, Jan ok and Feb easy. So your CV is same as it would be with or without refit on for Dec, a little lower for Jan and Feb is same as Russians cant do much.

Less men=>more territory lost in blizzard=>more to be taken back=>more combat losses (---)

No, Oka north your not losing any ground as your MT troops are up here with good terrain. In the south your giving ground
(+ no attrition losses for 1 logistics phase as your not in contact), you give ground no matter what tactic you use anyways. Plus the ground you lost in south you get to roll over manpower center AGAIN.

Less men=>less CV=>more victories for the enemy=>better morale of the Soviets (---)

No difference really, morale is done different no so it comes back to NM levels faster going up or down. The victories won are slightly higher on for Jan.

Less men=>more ground has to be given=>longer supply lines for the Soviets=>more Soviet truck losses (+++)

Allot less loses for Germany and slightly more Russian

Are the positive or the negative effects greater?

As Germany by the end of Feb you should have 200,000 to 250,000 men in the manpower pool, 1500-2000 AFVs and you saved 10,000 of armament pts-1000's of guns and trucks

You turn refit on in March and your army is at full strength by April.

So by June 15ish you have close to 100% ToE of everything + all the production from April-Mid June in pools.

Huge difference.

Guys simply read all of Pelton's posts + AAR's which is all I have done - then you can help the newbies get up to speed allot faster.

The game is basicly like a living cell as one area effects another for +/- effects.

< Message edited by TheOne -- 12/9/2016 2:00:32 PM >

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)

Post #: 19

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/9/2016 4:11:56 PM

M60A3TTS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheOne
Guys simply read all of Pelton's posts + AAR's which is all I have done - then you can help the newbies get up to speed allot faster.

Since you wrote it all too, must make for easy reading.

(in reply to TheOne)

Post #: 20

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/9/2016 5:23:26 PM

TheOne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheOne
Guys simply read all of Pelton's posts + AAR's which is all I have done - then you can help the newbies get up to speed allot faster.

Since you wrote it all too, must make for easy reading.

I thought there were forum rules for trolling?

(in reply to M60A3TTS)

Post #: 21

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/9/2016 5:45:20 PM

RedLancer

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There are forum rules for trolling and now that I am a mod I will enforce them. However when two people come to the same conclusion independently I wonder if it's coincidence.

@ The One (Pelton). Go away - you are not welcome here anymore. Cowards hide behind false identities but you cannot hide your grammar style. Feel free to send me another abusive e-mail that I can joyfully delete but if you do so again I promise that I will delete every thread on this forum that you created too.

@ M60A3TTS

_____________________________

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WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to TheOne)

Post #: 22

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/9/2016 6:26:42 PM

TheOne

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Joined: 10/26/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

There are forum rules for trolling and now that I am a mod I will enforce them.
However when two people come to the same conclusion independently I wonder if it's coincidence.

@ The One (Pelton). Go away - you are not welcome here anymore. Cowards hide behind false identities but you cannot
hide your grammar style. Feel free to send me another abusive e-mail that I can joyfully delete but if you do so again
I promise that I will delete every thread on this forum that you created too.

@ M60A3TTS

What I was talking Red Lancer was M60 - calling Hunter Pelton and now I am Pelton?

Just because 2 or 3 people think someone is person x
they are person x? I am sure you can simply look up a personal IP address and know for sure who is who.

Not sure what your personal issues are with me, but I am truly sorry you feel the way you do.

Just tring to help new people better understand the game and really don't care to get tangled up in a bunch of finger pointing drama
that has nothing to do with the thread.

Hope you have a great weekend.

(in reply to RedLancer)

Post #: 23

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/9/2016 7:18:56 PM

RedLancer

Posts: 4314
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheOne

What I was talking Red Lancer was M60 - calling Hunter Pelton and now I am Pelton?

How odd that you noticed what M60 had posted to someone else and felt the need to comment. Another coincidence? You must think I fell out of the stupid tree.

I'll have a good weekend when Pelton stops childish attempts to sneak back making poor attempts at being someone else and realises his behaviour has made him no longer welcome here in any guise.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to TheOne)

Post #: 24

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/9/2016 11:35:28 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

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Never a dull moment

(in reply to RedLancer)

Post #: 25

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/11/2016 3:27:20 PM

EwaldvonKleist

Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline

Thanks for the tips TheOne.
Just one more question: You say you have around 200 000 men in the pools at the end of blizzard. Assuming you don't stockpile them and 10-20% get killed due to blizzard, this means you save 20-40 thousand men with this tactic?

quote:

(+ no attrition losses for 1 logistics phase as your not in contact),

Good point, haven't considered this before!

quote:

Plus the ground you lost in south you get to roll over manpower center AGAIN.

Good point as well

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 12/11/2016 3:36:32 PM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)

Post #: 26

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/11/2016 6:49:06 PM

Icier

Posts: 564
Joined: 7/15/2014
From: a sunny beach nsw
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kantti

I am nearing the first blizzard ever against a human player (me playing Axis). It has been years since I played the game against AI and it was with standard Blizzard. For standard Bliz there was tons of guides how to cope with it (send best units to germany, send LW to germany, send SU's to germany or keep in cities, retreat couple hexes in time).

With mild blizzard I am a bit lost. How do german units react to mild blizzard?
Is it still needed to send units to winter holidays to Germany or are good forts+cities enough? Any other basic tips for mild blizzard?

In the game I am in fairly good position with Leningrad and Moscow captured, but just falling short of Rostov.
So I am enticed to fight in winter, but I don't know if it is viable under mild blizzard -option.

Oka north hole the lines and Oka south you can retreat if not dugin 1-2 hexes per turn during Dec.

It is critical now with the .01 patch that you still put panzers in citys near front or send to Germany, send all SU's to Germany and LW.

Also its critical you DO NOT attack during blizzard as lose ratio/counter attack ratio's have been changed.

Also all Divisions should be set to ready other then panzers in towns and ToE set to 71%,
all SU's in Germany set to 71% ToE other then pioneers set to 100%.

This will greatly lower your manpower/armament loses over the winter.

When March hits turn all Panzer units to ready, lower all SU ToE% to 55% and turn all infantry under 80% ToE to refit.

Once all units are over 80% then set all to refit 93% units, you can play with this, but by June all infantry will be at NM or higher lvls and all over 95% ToE

At some point in June put all Panzer Divisions on refit 93% - all SU's to 71% and all infantry on ready at 93% ToE.

You can at this time also disband a few HQs and AB's.

Your Army should be at max strength with a large pools of man.guns and AFV's for the summer dispite .01 new settings. LW will also be strong.

The more that I look @ this the more I realize what a loss ( he who shall not be named)
is to the game.This post is from someone who is passionate & understands about the game!

_____________________________

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

(in reply to TheOne)

Post #: 27

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/11/2016 7:18:48 PM

HardLuckYetAgain

Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ice

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kantti

I am nearing the first blizzard ever against a human player (me playing Axis). It has been years since I played the game against AI and it was with standard Blizzard. For standard Bliz there was tons of guides how to cope with it (send best units to germany, send LW to germany, send SU's to germany or keep in cities, retreat couple hexes in time).

With mild blizzard I am a bit lost. How do german units react to mild blizzard?
Is it still needed to send units to winter holidays to Germany or are good forts+cities enough? Any other basic tips for mild blizzard?

In the game I am in fairly good position with Leningrad and Moscow captured, but just falling short of Rostov.
So I am enticed to fight in winter, but I don't know if it is viable under mild blizzard -option.

Oka north hole the lines and Oka south you can retreat if not dugin 1-2 hexes per turn during Dec.

It is critical now with the .01 patch that you still put panzers in citys near front or send to Germany, send all SU's to Germany and LW.

Also its critical you DO NOT attack during blizzard as lose ratio/counter attack ratio's have been changed.

Also all Divisions should be set to ready other then panzers in towns and ToE set to 71%,
all SU's in Germany set to 71% ToE other then pioneers set to 100%.

This will greatly lower your manpower/armament loses over the winter.

When March hits turn all Panzer units to ready, lower all SU ToE% to 55% and turn all infantry under 80% ToE to refit.

Once all units are over 80% then set all to refit 93% units, you can play with this, but by June all infantry will be at NM or higher lvls and all over 95% ToE

At some point in June put all Panzer Divisions on refit 93% - all SU's to 71% and all infantry on ready at 93% ToE.

You can at this time also disband a few HQs and AB's.

Your Army should be at max strength with a large pools of man.guns and AFV's for the summer dispite .01 new settings. LW will also be strong.

The more that I look @ this the more I realize what a loss ( he who shall not be named)
is to the game.This post is from someone who is passionate & understands about the game!

The person caused their own demise. Posting in a respectful way would have never gotten someone banned. I can understand the passion for the game, but the rhetoric could have been phrased a great deal more elegantly to be more persuasive without character attacks.

(in reply to Icier)

Post #: 28

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/14/2016 12:24:59 AM

Hunter63

Posts: 28
Joined: 6/14/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheOne

What I was talking Red Lancer was M60 - calling Hunter Pelton and now I am Pelton?

How odd that you noticed what M60 had posted to someone else and felt the need to comment. Another coincidence? You must think I fell out of the stupid tree.

I'll have a good weekend when Pelton stops childish attempts to sneak back making poor attempts at being someone else and realises his behaviour has made him no longer welcome here in any guise.

Red Lancer just sent you a private message at 11/16/2016 8:23:10 AM:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pelton Posts
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alex

I have deleted your thread regarding Pelton in the WitE AAR posts. I have done so for three reasons:

- I am not convinced that you are not Pelton posting under a pseudonym or he is using your login.

- Pelton was banned from the forum for repeated violations of forum rules despite numerous warnings. This is a balatant circumventing of that ban. Whether it is you or he posting is immaterial. Pelton has lost the right to air his views or opinions on the WitE or WitW Forums.

- The forum is a better place since Pelton went. He has not been missed and I have received feedback from players who are now returning because he is no longer around to bully people.

I will delete any further post you make that air the views of Pelton. I will be locking Pelton's AAR threads.

Whilst I am at it I if you also know TheOne then the same goes for his posts and just to make it quite clear
I have no time for people who break rules or feel they are outside accepted behaviour.

John

----------- End of Private Message (PM) -------------

You can locate this message on our forum at (you may need to login first):

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/pm.asp?m=250365

==============================================
Matrix Games Forums
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As everyone can see Red you PMed asked ME to contacted TheOne who at the time I did not know,
but because of your PM I contacted him. That was back in mid-November kind Sir.

So TheOne knew long before this thread started (Dec 1st) you and others are on some kind of witch hunt, looking for the ghost
of Pelton behind every post.

I have no idea what your problem is with TheOne - I can see me I am a RL friend of Pelton so you can hate on me and I am cool with it.

But to randomly pick someone out of the crowd and claim they are someone they are not and call them a coward is very sad.

I might expect something like that from Pelton, but your the MOD on these forums dude?

Why all the hate for people you don't even know?

(in reply to RedLancer)

Post #: 29

RE: Mild Blizzard tips? - 12/14/2016 1:35:41 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline

Here we go again.

_____________________________

(in reply to Hunter63)

Post #: 30