Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

I know that we can set up the attack range of carrier TF to limite the distance from which a carrier strike can occur.
However, I have experienced situations in the game in which even though the range is set to zero the strike is performed.

are there some mods (or could be implemented ?) in which a confirmation order window is shown so you can finally approve or reject such as strike? it could really be very convenient.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

I know that we can set up the attack range of carrier TF to limite the distance from which a carrier strike can occur.
However, I have experienced situations in the game in which even though the range is set to zero the strike is performed.

are there some mods (or could be implemented ?) in which a confirmation order window is shown so you can finally approve or reject such as strike? it could really be very convenient.

The setting you are talking about governs surface/sub/ASW reaction ranges. It determines up to what distance to a hostile contact the TF moves to engage in the reaction phase of the turn resolution. If, for example, you set an ASW group to react '3', it will react (and hopefully engage) towards any sub detected within 3 hexes - naturally this also depends on a couple of other parameters as usual in WitP.

It does not help with carrier battles in general because there additional parameters that ignore (or overrule) the reaction range setting come into play. A CV TF will always react in a specific way (see manual) to an enemy CV TF based on their nationality.

Note that the above is in no way related to 'the distance from which a carrier strike can occur'. This can only be influenced via the Air Group range settings.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

I know that we can set up the attack range of carrier TF to limite the distance from which a carrier strike can occur.
However, I have experienced situations in the game in which even though the range is set to zero the strike is performed.

are there some mods (or could be implemented ?) in which a confirmation order window is shown so you can finally approve or reject such as strike? it could really be very convenient.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

I know that we can set up the attack range of carrier TF to limite the distance from which a carrier strike can occur.
However, I have experienced situations in the game in which even though the range is set to zero the strike is performed.

are there some mods (or could be implemented ?) in which a confirmation order window is shown so you can finally approve or reject such as strike? it could really be very convenient.

You seem to be asking the AI to stop processing the turn and ask you for permission to carry out a strike you did not plan on. This is the equivalent of a Naval HQ on land not allowing the TF commander at sea to use his initiative - something that has proven disastrous time after time IRL.

Apart from interfering with turn processing (by requiring you to monitor turn execution) this would also remove one of the variables that make the game exciting and realistic. You have picked your TF commander and given him his command. When unexpected situations occur it is the commander's job to figure out how to handle it. I say - "hands off".

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

I know that we can set up the attack range of carrier TF to limite the distance from which a carrier strike can occur.
However, I have experienced situations in the game in which even though the range is set to zero the strike is performed.

are there some mods (or could be implemented ?) in which a confirmation order window is shown so you can finally approve or reject such as strike? it could really be very convenient.

The setting you are talking about governs surface/sub/ASW reaction ranges. It determines up to what distance to a hostile contact the TF moves to engage in the reaction phase of the turn resolution. If, for example, you set an ASW group to react '3', it will react (and hopefully engage) towards any sub detected within 3 hexes - naturally this also depends on a couple of other parameters as usual in WitP.

It does not help with carrier battles in general because there additional parameters that ignore (or overrule) the reaction range setting come into play. A CV TF will always react in a specific way (see manual) to an enemy CV TF based on their nationality.

Note that the above is in no way related to 'the distance from which a carrier strike can occur'. This can only be influenced via the Air Group range settings.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

I know that we can set up the attack range of carrier TF to limite the distance from which a carrier strike can occur.
However, I have experienced situations in the game in which even though the range is set to zero the strike is performed.

are there some mods (or could be implemented ?) in which a confirmation order window is shown so you can finally approve or reject such as strike? it could really be very convenient.

The setting you are talking about governs surface/sub/ASW reaction ranges. It determines up to what distance to a hostile contact the TF moves to engage in the reaction phase of the turn resolution. If, for example, you set an ASW group to react '3', it will react (and hopefully engage) towards any sub detected within 3 hexes - naturally this also depends on a couple of other parameters as usual in WitP.

It does not help with carrier battles in general because there additional parameters that ignore (or overrule) the reaction range setting come into play. A CV TF will always react in a specific way (see manual) to an enemy CV TF based on their nationality.

Note that the above is in no way related to 'the distance from which a carrier strike can occur'. This can only be influenced via the Air Group range settings.

Just one caveat here, ASW TF's won't react to subs. They will chase those that are detected when they pass through the ASWs' hex, but they will not react toward them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi
Just one caveat here, ASW TF's won't react to subs. They will chase those that are detected when they pass through the ASWs' hex, but they will not react toward them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

It does not help with carrier battles in general because there additional parameters that ignore (or overrule) the reaction range setting come into play. A CV TF will always react in a specific way (see manual) to an enemy CV TF based on their nationality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

I know that we can set up the attack range of carrier TF to limite the distance from which a carrier strike can occur.
However, I have experienced situations in the game in which even though the range is set to zero the strike is performed.

are there some mods (or could be implemented ?) in which a confirmation order window is shown so you can finally approve or reject such as strike? it could really be very convenient.

The setting you are talking about governs surface/sub/ASW reaction ranges. It determines up to what distance to a hostile contact the TF moves to engage in the reaction phase of the turn resolution. If, for example, you set an ASW group to react '3', it will react (and hopefully engage) towards any sub detected within 3 hexes - naturally this also depends on a couple of other parameters as usual in WitP.

It does not help with carrier battles in general because there additional parameters that ignore (or overrule) the reaction range setting come into play. A CV TF will always react in a specific way (see manual) to an enemy CV TF based on their nationality.

Note that the above is in no way related to 'the distance from which a carrier strike can occur'. This can only be influenced via the Air Group range settings.

Just one caveat here, ASW TF's won't react to subs. They will chase those that are detected when they pass through the ASWs' hex, but they will not react toward them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

I know that we can set up the attack range of carrier TF to limite the distance from which a carrier strike can occur.
However, I have experienced situations in the game in which even though the range is set to zero the strike is performed.

are there some mods (or could be implemented ?) in which a confirmation order window is shown so you can finally approve or reject such as strike? it could really be very convenient.

The setting you are talking about governs surface/sub/ASW reaction ranges. It determines up to what distance to a hostile contact the TF moves to engage in the reaction phase of the turn resolution. If, for example, you set an ASW group to react '3', it will react (and hopefully engage) towards any sub detected within 3 hexes - naturally this also depends on a couple of other parameters as usual in WitP.

It does not help with carrier battles in general because there additional parameters that ignore (or overrule) the reaction range setting come into play. A CV TF will always react in a specific way (see manual) to an enemy CV TF based on their nationality.

Note that the above is in no way related to 'the distance from which a carrier strike can occur'. This can only be influenced via the Air Group range settings.

Just one caveat here, ASW TF's won't react to subs. They will chase those that are detected when they pass through the ASWs' hex, but they will not react toward them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

OK, look here.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3981268&mpage=2&key=ASW%2Creacting%2Csub&#

Edit:Check Alfred's post 41.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

OK, look here.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3981268&mpage=2&key=ASW%2Creacting%2Csub&#

Edit:Check Alfred's post 41.

Hey rustysi, thanks for the link.

Interesting read, I was not aware of this discussion up to now.

So combining what I read in that debate and what my personal expeerience is this sums up like below:

In my games I use ASW TF´s set with 2 or 3 PZs and react 2-4 depending on the situation. In areas where it is possible I put up a lot of NavS to vector the ASW TF´s on possible contacts.
My empirical data is that a) I get the `TF xyz reacts to enemy TF` message during the reaction phase on a regular basis where xyz is referring to the ASW TF. On multiple instances I then see b) combat initiated by the same TF xyz that was reported to react to a contact.
What I did not verify is whether the reaction of TF xyz actually resulted in a genuine deviation from the designated path between PZs to intercept a sub contact and a subsequent attack on that contact, or whether it was just a correlation and TF xyz did not deviate but rather attacked a sub in a hex that was part of the designated path anyway.

So I know that a) and b) happen sequencially for a specific TF, but what I do not know is whether
1) b) is technically a result of a) or
2) b) is just an independent event without any causal relation to a).

From the link you provided Alfred seems to be convinced that 2) applies. This alone makes 2) a real possibility, backed up by the usual extensive research Alfred does before making such statements. But this would at least mean we are experiencing either a bug or at least an inconsistency in messages the game provides to the player (react message although the TF doesn´t react).

Actually it would be pretty easy to sandbox a Scenario to verify what happens:

1) Position a sub TF with react 0 into a hex.
2) Put an ASW TF with high skill commander in a neighbouring hex, single PZ, set to react 1.
3) In a nearby base set up extensive airborne NavS to max out DL on the sub.

Run that setup for a while without changing anything. Any combat initiated by either ASW TF or sub TF will indicate that the ASW TF reacted into the sub TF hex.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77
Also LoBaron why do you use nav search and not ASW ? For the longer range?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77
Also LoBaron why do you use nav search and not ASW ? For the longer range?

For the sake of simplicity of the example I emphasised NavS to max DL.

In my games I use a mix of NavS and airborne ASW and ASW TFs. The mix depends on region priority, type/distance of threat, area to cover, plane types available, pilot skill and training, surface ships available, other threats in the reagion, and the logistics situation. As with all things in WitP AE there is no easy answer to a complex challenge.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

It does not help with carrier battles in general because there additional parameters that ignore (or overrule) the reaction range setting come into play. A CV TF will always react in a specific way (see manual) to an enemy CV TF based on their nationality.

Aha, so the CV fleet re-act setting can be overruled. I had this happen to bad effect, I thought the commander was the culprit. I had a 2CVL fleet following a 4CV fleet and the best and biggest Zero CAP unit was on the CVLs. They were set to follow in the same hex and react "0". But the 4CVs reacted a hex and the CVL not dividing my power and left the CVs without the most important CAP unit. Also the Kates from the CVLs would then go in without escort and apart from the CV planes. Not good, first I did not want any reaction (was overruled) and second I wanted both in the same hex - but the CVLs did not follow the react of the CVs....if they had ended up both in the same hex, ok this particular battle had probably sunk 3 enemy CVs with perhaps no own or light losses. The CAP unit on one of the CVLs was 36 x Zero with "0" range dedicated to protect. They did nothing during the whole batte, the CVLs were not attacked and with range "0" they did not protect the CVs.

Not to mention all the AA guns lost in the CVL fleet...

quote:

ORIGINAL: glyphoglossus

So, just to clarify: a TF with "follow" orders will not necessarily comply if the followed TF reacts-moves (as opposed to just a move)?

(1) Is this absolutely/confirmed/state to be true in some documentation?

(2) Would this hold if the following TF has a "react" > 0? I.e., if the following TF has the same "react" range as the followed TF, can we count on the following TF following the followed TF through a "react" move?

(3) If [2] above is True, is there a risk that the following TF will react move on its own even if the followed TF does not, thus disregarding the "follow" order?

(4) If either [2] is not True or [3] is True, then it seems that the only way for multiple CV TF's to consistently maintain a mutually supporting same-hex relationship with each other is to set react 0 for both?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
TF #1 is an amphibious TF.
TF #2 is a surface combat TF. It has been given movement orders to follow TF #1 and has also been given a naval reaction range of 6.

If an enemy surface TF is detected and all the relevant boxes are ticked, TF #2 will react towards the enemy because the follow order tells it to protect TF #1 and it's own reaction range tells it to move towards the enemy anyway. Remember a reaction move overrides existing movement orders (see point 7 above).

If, however, TF #2 does not have a follow TF #1 order, then it will not react towards the enemy in order to protect TF #1 but will only react on the basis of the threat/opportunity to itself alone. Most players will not notice this situation because they usually set following TFs at a range of zero and hence any enemy TF is simultaneously a threat to both friendly TFs which are in the same hex.