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OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 1:51:41 AM   
Footslogger


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Yes Gentleman. They are finally doing a movie about Dunkirk!

Here is the trailer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5QBye6-ToM

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 2:13:42 AM   
SheperdN7


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Yes, Christopher Nolan directing. Loved Inception and TDK Trilogy, here's hoping that he can get the pure desperation feeling to appear in this movie.

I think Dunkirk would probably be the hardest war movie ever to make, simply because of the sheer size and scale of that evacuation and the amount of desperation and what was at stake.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 2:34:21 AM   
btd64


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Finally....GP

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 2:39:45 AM   
rustysi


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I wait with bated breath. Please let it be a good one.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 2:43:56 AM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SheperdN7

Yes, Christopher Nolan directing. Loved Inception and TDK Trilogy, here's hoping that he can get the pure desperation feeling to appear in this movie.

I think Dunkirk would probably be the hardest war movie ever to make, simply because of the sheer size and scale of that evacuation and the amount of desperation and what was at stake.


You mean like 'Overlord'. Think 'The Longest Day'. Good movie for Hollywood at that time. Oh, wait you're 'just a whippersnapper', you don't go back that far.

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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 3:03:31 AM   
BBfanboy


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All the troops in the evacuation scenes can be done with CGI, as can most of the boats. Getting good writing for the parts and the actors to deliver them is the hard part. Since we already know the storyline, the tension has to come from giving us characters we can care about and then having some of them survive and other not, or survive with crippling wounds.

I do hope they left out the obligatory love story - other than loved ones in Britain waiting to learn of their mens' fates.

Oh, and please minimize Goering's screen time too!

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 3:57:34 AM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

Yes Gentleman. They are finally doing a movie about Dunkirk!

Here is the trailer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5QBye6-ToM



I hope it turns out great! But when you say "finally", this is the one that immediately came into my mind.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051565/

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 4:38:04 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Oh, and please minimize Goering's screen time too!


Feh. I'm interested in the pastry buffet he has set out for him every morning. Maybe some nice lox (too Jewish?), eggs, sausages (naturally) and champagne fresh from the finest cellars in France. They could fill 5 minutes-easy-with him filling his plate and his gob.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 4:58:10 AM   
Big B

 

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One of my favorite movies growing up was 1969's Battle of Britain....I still love it.
Hermann Goering was portrayed as a buffoon who didn't understand fighter pilots and modern aerial warfare.

As an adult I understand that things back then were still portrayed in WW2 propaganda format.
Today, I understand that Hermann Goering was the last leader of Richthofen's Flying Circus in WW1, and an accomplished fighter ace in his own right... he couldn't have been the ass he is portrayed as in popular history - in reality - something doesn't smell right.

The Germans finally getting crushed doesn't mean the propaganda was accurate either ..... just saying (and I'm an American Fanboy).

B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Oh, and please minimize Goering's screen time too!


Feh. I'm interested in the pastry buffet he has set out for him every morning. Maybe some nice lox (too Jewish?), eggs, sausages (naturally) and champagne fresh from the finest cellars in France. They could fill 5 minutes-easy-with him filling his plate and his gob.



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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 6:16:57 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

One of my favorite movies growing up was 1969's Battle of Britain....I still love it.
Hermann Goering was portrayed as a buffoon who didn't understand fighter pilots and modern aerial warfare.

As an adult I understand that things back then were still portrayed in WW2 propaganda format.
Today, I understand that Hermann Goering was the last leader of Richthofen's Flying Circus in WW1, and an accomplished fighter ace in his own right... he couldn't have been the ass he is portrayed as in popular history - in reality - something doesn't smell right.

The Germans finally getting crushed doesn't mean the propaganda was accurate either ..... just saying (and I'm an American Fanboy).

B



That movie was incepted though with strict cooperation and advice from A. Galland, who may have known one or two things more than others regarding Goering, the Luftwaffe and its management.

This without disqualifing your insight.


I'd like to see again the "Battle of Britain", but cannot find it on the interenet - for free.


Any how this new movie here on Dunkirk looks very good.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 6:35:47 AM   
Big B

 

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@ adarbrauner, I saw Battle Of Britain 1969 for $3.99 region 1 (USA & Canada) It's a fantastic fim.
I don't know where you are and what region - but it's worth a search.


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

One of my favorite movies growing up was 1969's Battle of Britain....I still love it.
Hermann Goering was portrayed as a buffoon who didn't understand fighter pilots and modern aerial warfare.

As an adult I understand that things back then were still portrayed in WW2 propaganda format.
Today, I understand that Hermann Goering was the last leader of Richthofen's Flying Circus in WW1, and an accomplished fighter ace in his own right... he couldn't have been the ass he is portrayed as in popular history - in reality - something doesn't smell right.

The Germans finally getting crushed doesn't mean the propaganda was accurate either ..... just saying (and I'm an American Fanboy).

B



That movie was incepted though with strict cooperation and advice from A. Galland, who may have known one or two things more than others regarding Goering, the Luftwaffe and its management.

This without disqualifing your insight.


I'd like to see again the "Battle of Britain", but cannot find it on the interenet - for free.


Any how this new movie here on Dunkirk looks very good.




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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 6:35:57 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

Yes Gentleman. They are finally doing a movie about Dunkirk!

Here is the trailer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5QBye6-ToM




Already been done (1958)). Were we manage to salvage a glorious defeat from the jaws of victory.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 6:36:53 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

One of my favorite movies growing up was 1969's Battle of Britain....I still love it.
Hermann Goering was portrayed as a buffoon who didn't understand fighter pilots and modern aerial warfare.

As an adult I understand that things back then were still portrayed in WW2 propaganda format.
Today, I understand that Hermann Goering was the last leader of Richthofen's Flying Circus in WW1, and an accomplished fighter ace in his own right... he couldn't have been the ass he is portrayed as in popular history - in reality - something doesn't smell right.

The Germans finally getting crushed doesn't mean the propaganda was accurate either ..... just saying (and I'm an American Fanboy).

B
warspite1

Hi Big B I would recommend The Battle of Britain (Holland) and The Most Dangerous Enemy (Bungay). There may have been an element of mickey take about his portrayal in that excellent film - but not much given what the likes of Galland and Speer had to say.

I don't think Goering's personal bravery (before his drug addiction) comes into his ability to command the Luftwaffe. His tactics in the battle and his lack of energy in understanding what was required (look at the British efforts to get damaged aircraft back in the skies compared to the Germans as just one example) were woeful.

Goering was a political animal and what was right for Germany appeared to come second to what was right for the Luftwaffe - and for Goering! Don't get me wrong, Goering was, by all accounts highly intelligent, but (and I can only assume his addiction was the issue here) he was the wrong man to lead the Luftwaffe - let alone the economy!


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/16/2016 6:48:15 AM >


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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 6:43:52 AM   
Big B

 

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Thanks Warspite1
I finally watched the Trailer, I would rather recommend 1942's "In Which We Serve"
It's not 2016, but it's faithful to the time of Dunkirk 1940, and I think more of their mood, and includes their action at Dunkirk

< Message edited by Big B -- 12/16/2016 6:50:17 AM >


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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 6:50:38 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

One of my favorite movies growing up was 1969's Battle of Britain....I still love it.
Hermann Goering was portrayed as a buffoon who didn't understand fighter pilots and modern aerial warfare.

As an adult I understand that things back then were still portrayed in WW2 propaganda format.
Today, I understand that Hermann Goering was the last leader of Richthofen's Flying Circus in WW1, and an accomplished fighter ace in his own right... he couldn't have been the ass he is portrayed as in popular history - in reality - something doesn't smell right.

The Germans finally getting crushed doesn't mean the propaganda was accurate either ..... just saying (and I'm an American Fanboy).

B




He must have been a very good pilot but that does not mean he was any good at leadership. Been any number of so called great leaders who were not as great as propaganda made them out to be. Only history/hindsight (without bias) can proove if they where. Not too sure if propaganda has stopped being part of any film making but at least this one was a good film unlike the movie that should not be mentioned.

< Message edited by Chris H -- 12/16/2016 6:51:35 AM >

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 8:37:45 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dUv5FcyNM0

I my opinion , this movie beats anyone else for realism

The meeting with Goering, as related and telled by Galland himself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjz8pAGRvsg

for me , this is the most loyal possible representation of the facts.

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 12/16/2016 9:01:07 AM >

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 8:57:00 AM   
Encircled


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Its going to have to be pretty decent to beat the 1958 version.

it ok though, when they made another film about Dec 7th 1941 after Tora! Tora! Tora! they didn't get it hopelessly wrong........oh hang on

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 10:55:54 AM   
spence

 

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The movie seems to echo a BBC 3-part docudrama about the same topic. Enjoyed that one

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 11:07:18 AM   
Encircled


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Yeah, that was good as well

For you young ones on here, some boy band member is in it.

If it means a load of teens googling Dunkirk and learning about it, then that is no bad thing.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 11:23:17 AM   
stuart3

 

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quote:

As an adult I understand that things back then were still portrayed in WW2 propaganda format.
Today, I understand that Hermann Goering was the last leader of Richthofen's Flying Circus in WW1, and an accomplished fighter ace in his own right... he couldn't have been the ass he is portrayed as in popular history - in reality - something doesn't smell right.


He was courageous, and also politically and commercially astute, but his military involvement ended in 1918 until his purely political appointment as head of the newly formed Luftwaffe. He had no staff training or experience, which was a bit of a limiting factor in the world's only six star general. Mind you, his boss had no staff training or experience either and his highest military rank had only been corporal.

Add in the mood swings resulting from his morphine addiction resulting from the injuries he received at the Munich Beer Hall and the fact that almost no one ever dared to tell him "no" and you have the problem that was Hermann Goering.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 1:02:15 PM   
stuart3

 

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I'll correct myself before someone else does. Goering wasn't promoted until after the fall of France. He was still a mere five star general at Dunkirk.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 3:03:12 PM   
Chickenboy


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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

One of my favorite movies growing up was 1969's Battle of Britain....I still love it.
Hermann Goering was portrayed as a buffoon who didn't understand fighter pilots and modern aerial warfare.

As an adult I understand that things back then were still portrayed in WW2 propaganda format.
Today, I understand that Hermann Goering was the last leader of Richthofen's Flying Circus in WW1, and an accomplished fighter ace in his own right... he couldn't have been the ass he is portrayed as in popular history - in reality - something doesn't smell right.

The Germans finally getting crushed doesn't mean the propaganda was accurate either ..... just saying (and I'm an American Fanboy).

B
warspite1

Hi Big B I would recommend The Battle of Britain (Holland) and The Most Dangerous Enemy (Bungay). There may have been an element of mickey take about his portrayal in that excellent film - but not much given what the likes of Galland and Speer had to say.

I don't think Goering's personal bravery (before his drug addiction) comes into his ability to command the Luftwaffe. His tactics in the battle and his lack of energy in understanding what was required (look at the British efforts to get damaged aircraft back in the skies compared to the Germans as just one example) were woeful.

Goering was a political animal and what was right for Germany appeared to come second to what was right for the Luftwaffe - and for Goering! Don't get me wrong, Goering was, by all accounts highly intelligent, but (and I can only assume his addiction was the issue here) he was the wrong man to lead the Luftwaffe - let alone the economy!



I remember enjoying The Battle of Britain when I watched it as an adolescent. Upon further review, I think I'm coming around to Ebert's point of view about it the more I think about it. I know-sacrilege!

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/battle-of-britain-1969

The movie, while it *did* contain some cool aerial fights and "plane porn" was pretty full of schmaltz and overwrought sentimentalism. A totally unnecessary love story was included that detracted from the greater whole as well. Not as blindingly awful a film as TMTSNBN, but-in retrospect-not one I'd say held up well over time.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 7:07:04 PM   
warspite1


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Wow. Genuinely wow! That is one of the most awful movie reviews I have ever read. No. It is singularly the worst I have ever read.

And no, my view is not because of the “sacrilege” of saying he did not like Battle of Britain – frankly I couldn’t give a toss who likes it or who hates it because each to their own.

No, I just can’t believe some of the bilge this guy has written – it’s like he is desperate to show how clever he is but the comments he makes vary between the dumb and the really dumb.

quote:

Of all the insults to our intelligence in "The Battle of Britain," perhaps the very worst is when Michael Caine's dog looks wistfully up into the sky and whines for his master to return. We are asked to applaud heroism because of the discomfort it causes dogs. There was hardly a wet eye in the house.


This is a truly awful start – and I’m not even a dog lover…. The British generally are animal lovers and this scene, if one is so inclined, causes a bit of a stiff upper lip moment. Personally I can take it or leave it, but one thing I am confident of – the film makers are not asking me to acknowledge and applaud heroism because it leaves sundry canines owner less. What a puerile comment.

quote:

"Battle of Britain," in fact, is a throwback to those phony war movies of the 1940s. Remember the obligatory scene of the dashing young pilots lounging around the officers' club? Suddenly the attack alarm sounds, and they all dash out into the night, leaving the fire burning and a few chairs overturned. The faithful old servant moves slowly through the room, adjusting chairs, and then the roar of airplanes is heard overhead as our boys fly off to engage the Hun. The servant takes a half-empty pint of beer from a table, lifts it to toast the heroes, and softly says: "Here's to You, sir!"
To its credit, "The Battle of Britain" eliminates this scene.

Okay… so one up to the BoB apparently… but what is actually so wrong about that “obligatory” scene anyway?

Now the author of this bilge really starts to lose the plot:

But it catalogs (?) all the others:
quote:

The pilot staring moodily out the hotel window while his girl looks pensive on the bed;

Yes you are right. Personally I would never watch a war film with such a ridiculous scene.
quote:

Churchill, represented by a cigar;

**** me really?! I mean seriously? BoB shows Churchill complete with cigar! That’s outrageous. Why wasn’t his personage appropriately reflected – you know dressed in his favourite pink tank top while smoking a pipe?
quote:

the Kid who gets killed on his first mission;

Er news flash. The average age of a RAF pilot was 20 – the youngest was 18. The life expectancy was four weeks. The training time was cut to meet the need for more pilots. As the Japanese found, the less hours in an aircraft, the more chance you’re not going to see another sun rise….. Why is showing a couple of youngsters failing to return from their first mission so wrong? It told a sad truth. It happened. But according to this idiot, that cannot be shown in a war film because of what and why exactly?
quote:

the brave little Red Cross nurse;

My mum was a very green 21-year old when she was sent to Australia to nurse the sick and wounded in the Pacific. Showing the courage of a nurse in a war film? Yeah, don’t know why the film makers would have done such a thing. Shocking.
quote:

the outcast officer whose early warnings are vindicated;

Cos that never happens does it? No matter the film, no matter the genre, the wisened, experienced person helping to explain the plot through his own previous experience just doesn’t happen – or shouldn’t. The fact it happens in BoB truly confirms this as a rubbish film. Or does it confirm the reviewer as someone who doesn't actually know what he's blabbing on about because its a well used method to bring the audience up to date with the plot?
quote:

the officious German general;

The point is? The officious German general – and what about the pompous British officer trying to teach the Poles (who of course need no teaching)? They are characters.
quote:

the Nazi pilots drinking champagne

Yes, the German pilots who had grown confident, and battle experienced, in success after success in Spain, Poland, the Low Countries and now France. The champagne perhaps a metaphor for the total and utter confidence that the young Luftwaffe pilots had at the start of the battle?
quote:

while the harried British gulp tea and make repairs.

We drink a lot of tea. Sorry and all that. But we do. Sorry that is a crime I know. Re the repairs have a look at German “efforts” to get damaged aircraft back in service and compare that with the British……
quote:

And interminable shots of airplanes being shot down.

Yes – it’s a ****ing war film. And here's an absolute shocker. Many people who go to watch war films, go to see war based action. They go to watch aircraft porn, battleship filth and downright naughty panzers. I know right? Who knew?

quote:

The airplanes are another sore point. Sure, Harry Saltzman spent millions to assemble and repair Spitfires and Hurricanes, and there was even a TV special about the authenticity of the movie. But you've got to USE airplanes; it isn't enough to own them. Some of the aerial photography is very good. We see dogfights actually filmed in the air and fought by real planes (instead of by models and visual effects).


Right so a positive yes?

quote:

But the aerial scenes are allowed to run forever and repeat themselves shamelessly, until we're sure we saw that same Heinkel dive into the sea (sorry -- the "drink") three times already. And the special effects aren't all that good for a movie that cost $12,000,000.


Yes that is true. It takes a few watches but when first watching the film – or maybe the first few even, one doesn’t necessarily realise they are the same shots from different angles. Shame the budget wasn’t bigger but that’s real life.

quote:

For example: We see hundreds of German bombers, row after row, thundering across the sky to bomb London. But every one of the bombers moves at precisely the same speed, There's no relative change in position, or correcting for altitude. Nobody even dips a wing. The Germans were good, but they weren't that good.

So what? You now sound like a nerd because you want to impress us with your formation flying knowledge. But exactly how many people did those few seconds of celluloid spoil the film for? Compare that to more modern films with bigger budgets where aircraft are flying off in all impossible directions and angles…..

quote:

And so the scene looks fishy, and we figure out we're looking at models. No progress has been made since that notorious scene in "Mrs. Miniver" (1942), where the Dunkirk fleet churned across the English Channel at exactly the same speed (rowboats, gunboats, it didn't matter) and you realized they were being towed through a tank on the same string.

Same again – it was hardly a deal breaker….

quote:

Inept as a lot of the effects are, they look good compared to the plot, or story, or whatever it is. Despite a lot of impressive speechmaking, no attempt is made to explain and clarify the Battle of Britain. Strategy is confined to pushing symbols around on maps. There are so many characters we never get involved. We can't even keep them straight. The writers never solved the problem of incorporating the top-heavy special effects into their thin little plot.

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez. What is possibly not possible to understand about the film? The Germans have won the Battle for France, the Battle for Britain is about to begin - that is all explained. Its also explained about how the Germans are preparing for invasion and we get little vignettes with Curt Jurgens and Ralph Richardson in Switzerland – plus speeches by Laurence Olivier (Dowding) to explain further e.g. the rate at which the young Allied pilots needed to shoot down their German opposite numbers, the mistake that was turning on London etc. I mean genuinely where did you get lost in this massively complex story line??????

quote:

There's also evidence that the movie was butchered in the editing. Several scenes seem to lead into or out of other scenes that aren't there. For example, after Susannah York learns that Christopher Plummer has been shot down in flames, there's one of those obligatory scenes intended only to telegraph an outcome. She sees a badly burned man and is lectured on plastic surgery and all that. So we're set up for her dramatic confrontation with Plummer, which never comes. We never see either one of them again, in fact.


Ever heard of less is more? We know what has happened to the Canadian pilot, we know that his and his wife’s life will never be the same again. Leaving it at that is a way of dealing with that episode. Yes they could have dealt with it head on. The fact they didn’t doesn’t make it a bad film.

quote:

All we're left with is the offensive publicity campaign. It may be necessary to remind ourselves that the movie is not the battle itself. That TV documentary seemed to hint that Harry Saltzman, the producer, was only slightly less heroic than the guys who flew in the battle. They only died. He had to buy the planes.


Offensive? Yeah whatever…..the only thing offensive is your review - well no its not offensive, its just rubbish.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/16/2016 7:53:05 PM >


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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 7:19:22 PM   
Chickenboy


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But what did you think of the review?

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 7:45:33 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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I never read reviews of movies in which I am interested. Far too often the reviewers POV is diametrically opposed to my own...

BTW Warspite, you are spot on in your review of the review. Roger Ebert had no clue about the subject of the film.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 7:48:40 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

But what did you think of the review?
warspite1

Not sure. I'm on the fence at the moment....

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 8:09:38 PM   
Big B

 

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That's why I have NEVER bothered to pay attention to movie reviews in the media.
I don't need one of those idiots to tell me what to think about something...I can judge for myself thank you very much - in about 30 seconds of watching a clip.
I do have to admit one thing though - when reviewers hate a film - it usually perks my interest ...because I know most of the time our views are different - so I guess they are useful - in a backhanded way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

I never read reviews of movies in which I am interested. Far too often the reviewers POV is diametrically opposed to my own...

BTW Warspite, you are spot on in your review of the review. Roger Ebert had no clue about the subject of the film.



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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 11:24:37 PM   
SheperdN7


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Actually just watched "The Longest Day" a week or two ago, personally I would've liked it being more about the build-up and waiting game along with the superb German March theme playing whenever the scene shifts back across the channel. I loved the movie and I mean LOVE 10/10 probably one of the best ever during the first hour, I was actually thinking it may replace "Apocalypse Now" for my favourite movie ever. By the time the troops hit the beaches I was starting to fidget, which is my secret signal for "end credits please".


Combine the sheer combat horror of Saving Private Ryan with the superb build up and anticipation of "The Longest Day" and there you go- the picture perfect war movie. Maybe sound editing from "Fury" as well.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/16/2016 11:38:17 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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All this talk about the movie Battle of Britain made me dig out my copy and watch it this afternoon. I got no turns run in my game, but it was still a very enjoyable afternoon...

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 12/17/2016 12:23:02 AM   
SheperdN7


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BoB is a good movie in its own right.

I would like to weigh in on the Goering talk that was occurring earlier on here.

IMHO, just looking strictly at evidence, Goering was an idiot in the captain's chair. There's just no other possible way to put it. Skilled pilot no doubt, probably was a total ladies man too, at least until the donut addiction started.

But I look at what Galland and Speer said about him. Galland I put stock in, he's essentially the Rommel of the air and from what I believe kept his distance from the political side of things just like the Desert Fox himself, so I think just based on common sense that he wouldn't just be trying to diminish the man just because he wanted vengeance for some past misgiving.


Which brings me to Speer... The Nazi who said sorry... I just have one word in reference to that- bull.



Common sense would tell me that Speer would have an actual grudge or two against Goering so I'd be willing to place stock in the theory that a lot of what Speer said about him would simply be stuff to diminish the man, maybe most of it was founded but I think we can all agree that there is a difference between trying to hurt someone's career and actively trying to destroy it.



"My Luftwaffe is invincible... And so now we turn to England... How long will this one last? Three? Four weeks?"

Probably one of my favourite quotes simply because it was so true and so false.


< Message edited by SheperdN7 -- 12/17/2016 12:25:41 AM >


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