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RE: 12 - Moscow Final thoughts

 
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RE: 12 - Moscow Final thoughts - 12/24/2016 3:26:31 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
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Status: offline 		Don't understand the point of forting cavalry at Sevastopol. Their inherent advantages of mobility are wasted there.

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Post #: 91
RE: 12 - Moscow Final thoughts - 12/24/2016 10:53:11 PM   
topeverest


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Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		appreciate the guidance -

Was using them only as the were available. Had planned to switch them out with infantry.

please don't hesitate to offer other good ideas. I am figuring it out as I go.


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Don't understand the point of forting cavalry at Sevastopol. Their inherent advantages of mobility are wasted there.



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Post #: 92
RE: 12 - Moscow Final thoughts - 12/25/2016 9:10:04 AM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
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From: Back in Blighty
Status: offline 		You still have far too much in the south compared to Moscow area. Moscow and its flanks should be stuffed with inf divs digging. Cavalry units are useless in that role.

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 93
Turn 13 Germans Reach Moscow - 12/26/2016 6:27:53 PM   
topeverest


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Status: offline 		Learning some hard lessons about the game here.
1. reduction of Leningrad continues. Might last another turn or two
2. Panzer ball pushes long distance and takes w Moscow, despite fortified regions reserve units woods and forts. I just don't know what to say about how I might have prevented such a thing from happening, but it has. I will have to plan to retake it in the winter counteroffensive. Only 2 more good weather turns,

In any event, bad Russian turn, and one that reveals my weakness as a player.

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Post #: 94
Leningrad - 12/26/2016 6:32:44 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
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Status: offline 		I have serious issues with how the game works relative to fortified regions and forts and isolation - but I cant do anything about it.

here are the results.





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< Message edited by topeverest -- 12/26/2016 6:33:06 PM >

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Post #: 95
Moscow - 12/26/2016 6:34:54 PM   
topeverest


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Joined: 10/17/2007
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Status: offline 		here is the picture. I will lose the entire city over the next two turns. I also will lose some of the industry. The enemy just exploded this past turn. Jokes on me.




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 12/26/2016 6:39:33 PM >

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Andy M

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Post #: 96
RE: Moscow - 12/26/2016 6:42:33 PM   
topeverest


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From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		ON the dimly bright side, I was able to retake a dozen hexes across the MLR theaters including a number strongly held armored units. None were easy. I will take that as lessons for the upcoming winter counteroffensive.

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Post #: 97
RE: Moscow - 12/26/2016 9:26:39 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

here is the picture. I will lose the entire city over the next two turns. I also will lose some of the industry. The enemy just exploded this past turn. Jokes on me.



You need(ed) your best units defending Moscow not 1 CV ones


< Message edited by sillyflower -- 12/26/2016 9:27:01 PM >

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to topeverest)
Post #: 98
RE: Moscow - 12/26/2016 10:33:17 PM   
M60A3TTS


Posts: 4014
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Status: offline 		Common new guy mistake. You have to respect the ability of the Axis player to do this sort of thing with a HQ buildup.

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Post #: 99
RE: Moscow - 12/27/2016 8:16:55 AM   
Pionpion

 

Posts: 69
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Status: offline 		A 1-unit buffer line just can't hold in front of a strong german push, especially with 5-6 armor units

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Post #: 100
Turn 14 - September 18, 1941 - 12/29/2016 1:31:55 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
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From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		3 more good weather turns in all likelihood.

Germans take Leningrad hex and remainder of garrison will fall next turn.

Germans broaden the Moscow wedge, transferring troops into the wedge.
Germans push on Orel, Kharkov and towards Stalino

Russians push back orel attack successfully
Russians pincer and isolate the entire attacking force going for Kharkov! Germans will get out of the pincer as I don't have enough troops there to capture the german units. hopefully this sends a powerful message to the enemy and will cause them to be less aggressive.
Germans finally firmly across Dneper near dnetropvolsk and zaporryze.

Russians hold reinforcements back to train for counteroffensive, and have decided that it is not possible to take back Moscow until the winter, so I wont be throwing troops away trying to do that.

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Post #: 101
leningrad - 12/29/2016 1:37:07 AM   
topeverest


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Status: offline 		That battle is over, and the enemy is obviously in the process of repositioning his forces




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Post #: 102
Moscow - 12/29/2016 1:40:10 AM   
topeverest


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Status: offline 		I opted not to press a bad situation. I took back a few easy hexes bombed all exposed units, including HQ's, and repositioned units to slow the enemy advance. I am hoping to keep the enemy to 5 hexes past Moscow. I would prefer a salient to pressure more that flat line. In any event this is the big winter focus area.

The remaining fair weather turns will only be opportunistic counterattacks.

50 divisions off all types are still training in the rear and will be the first part of the Russian winter attac.




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 12/29/2016 1:46:13 AM >

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RE: Moscow - 12/29/2016 1:02:44 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
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Status: offline 		This has been a common tactic of mine - as the enemy crosses a river - counterattack.

On the approaches to Tula enemy crosses the Oka river, but not in sufficient strength to stay. Russians concentrate with local forces and re-secure the eastern banks of the oka river - and disperse for defensive operations.

remember, I am playing under the idea there are three more good turns of weather and I want to minimize further loss of factories beyond those I will or have lost in Moscow and Minsc




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 12/29/2016 1:03:12 PM >

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Post #: 104
Kharkov - 12/29/2016 1:15:57 PM   
topeverest


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Status: offline 		The Reds were most successful in at Kharkov.

The Germans attacked into a mass of Russian units and made progress towards K. but they left a number of open hexes and were in the clear. I decided to do a swarm attack of the flanks of his wedge attack. it was broadly successful. most of a german army was pocketed!

if I had a mobile resreve or about 10 more local unnits I could have sealed the pocket tight - making for a desperate german event. as it is he will break the pocket but it will cost him precious time. more importantly this is the fourth such time I have either pocketed or cut his los. I am hopping this gives him ponderous moments on his remaining clear turns.

the reds aren't harmless to the axis.




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 12/29/2016 1:16:18 PM >

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RE: Kharkov - 12/29/2016 2:21:30 PM   
GabrielBora

 

Posts: 48
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Status: offline 		The soviets keept about 80 divisions in reserve during bliZard:
in game terms, if you have divisions ten points bellow national morale ,they should be striped from the fronts structure and keept under military districts and stavka until march :
the units that are used durring the winter battles end up severly understrenght and morale gains are bellow expectations:
A fresh 80 division reserve will help you restore the fronts staying power after the winter battles;

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Post #: 106
RE: Kharkov - 12/29/2016 3:21:33 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the advice.

I haven't extensively planned the Russian winter offensive yet. As you indicated, I don't know how many
units will have good enough morale and support to warrant inclusion. My goal is to be as punishing as
possible and continue to attack wherever I can get nice attritional results on the enemy. If he leaves
his armored units exposed, I will certainly focus on them.

The second part of my winter plan is to stock up on AP's, build cavalry corps, and build as many infantry
brigades as possible to create enough unit mass while I am converting units to corps.

I am pondering holding two armor armies in mobile reserve throughout the winter so that any summer 42 panzer
punch will be more blunt.

Considering my blunder at Moscow has created an opportunity around Stalino and Rostov, if I can hold the
enemy well back there and create a 5+ hex fortified defense in depth, I will have a fighting chanced on holding the
southern corner

BUT I am planning how to get to the moon before Yuri Gregarian's first flight. I must not get ahead of myself

And I welcome ideas and thoughts, as I am an inexperienced player who needs it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GabrielBora

The soviets keept about 80 divisions in reserve during bliZard:
in game terms, if you have divisions ten points bellow national morale ,they should be striped from the fronts structure and keept under military districts and stavka until march :
the units that are used durring the winter battles end up severly understrenght and morale gains are bellow expectations:
A fresh 80 division reserve will help you restore the fronts staying power after the winter battles;




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Post #: 107
RE: Moscow - 12/29/2016 5:42:34 PM   
smokindave34


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quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

I opted not to press a bad situation. I took back a few easy hexes bombed all exposed units, including HQ's, and repositioned units to slow the enemy advance. I am hoping to keep the enemy to 5 hexes past Moscow. I would prefer a salient to pressure more that flat line. In any event this is the big winter focus area.

The remaining fair weather turns will only be opportunistic counterattacks.

50 divisions off all types are still training in the rear and will be the first part of the Russian winter attac.





Not sure why you are keeping 50 divisions training in the rear - they could have been better served defending the approaches to Moscow or at least digging forts for your better units to fall back to. Your reserve units will be in good shape to fight in the blizzard but unfortunately Moscow will already be in axis hands. Nice job around Kharkov - your opponent is behind schedule in the south so you can take some comfort in that.

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Post #: 108
RE: Moscow - 12/29/2016 8:37:25 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
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Status: offline 		Smoking dave - thanks for advice on bringing training units forward to build forts.

I might have thought of that eventually!

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Post #: 109
RE: Moscow - 12/30/2016 12:28:06 AM   
smokindave34


Posts: 877
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Status: offline 		Those training units are very effective. This is my "crack" 1st fortified region in action.....






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< Message edited by smokindave34 -- 12/30/2016 12:30:09 AM >

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Post #: 110
Turm 15 - end of September 1941 - 12/30/2016 9:20:41 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
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Status: offline 		This turn was not remarkable.
1. the enemy continued to broaden the Moscow wedge but did not press across the river to take the other two hexes
2. Germany got out of the Kharkov pocket but did not advance - as expected
3. Enemy brings up more force and attacks again across Oka river towards Tula

Russia begins pouring in reinforcements from points east to deepen the defense in depth and prepare for winter.
Russia also shortens a bit of the MLR to discourage pincer actions
Russia continues to build select air units

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Post #: 111
Turn 15 - Moscow - 12/30/2016 9:22:17 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		I am sending reinforcements to the area as per recommendations of several, most recently smokingdave, to increase the forts built per turn. No real action this turn except attritional Russian air to axis ground




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 12/30/2016 9:23:01 PM >

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Andy M

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Post #: 112
September 41 month end stats - 12/30/2016 9:28:10 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Factory evacuation so far as been successful - but I will lose an additional 12 arm, 15 vehicle, and 9 HI in Moscow when it finally falls. No losses yet on AFV or air.




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RE: September 41 month end stats - 12/30/2016 9:34:17 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
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Status: offline 		Here are the ground and air losses.




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Post #: 114
Current Front COmmanders - 12/30/2016 9:42:59 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
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From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Here are my current commanders at the front level. and MAN did it cost a lot to get rid of the bad ones I have RIF'd

Note I have had two commanders executed - Shakht and Pavlov - both 0 political ratings.





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< Message edited by topeverest -- 12/30/2016 9:53:40 PM >

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Post #: 115
RE: Current Front COmmanders - 12/31/2016 9:52:55 AM   
M60A3TTS


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Status: offline 		It's wasteful in APs to be promoting GL's to Front commands. Leave the good ones in your better and important armies until they at least make GP. With those extra APs you could have a lot more sapper regiments or more/upgraded air regiments.

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Post #: 116
16 - October 2, 1941 - 1/1/2017 10:50:10 AM   
topeverest


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Status: offline 		One more turn of likely good weather and then we are into the mud. Could get mud in North Soviet, but odds are next turn is last clear turn.

We continue the same themes -

Other two hexes of Moscow fall but enemy does not press beyond
Enemy gets too far out in front of his troops at Kursk and has three units pocketed - same story here, I bet they get out of the pocket
Gradual german progress along MLR, but will not reach stalino area

Russians continue to pour units into the MLR, making minimal counterattacks
robust soviet air to ground on german formations continue
several new air units built, balance of APs banked

all eyes to the bad weather

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Post #: 117
RE: 16 - October 2, 1941 - Kursk - 1/1/2017 10:53:28 AM   
topeverest


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Status: offline 		Here is that pocket - I am gonna get one of these destroyed eventually. I need to
maintain a close tactical reserve as time goes on so I can do just that






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< Message edited by topeverest -- 1/1/2017 10:55:14 AM >

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Post #: 118
RE: 16 - October 2, 1941 - South - 1/1/2017 11:16:43 AM   
topeverest


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Status: offline 		My accidental overconcentration in the south yielded Moscow but reaped rewards in the south. It now looks like the southern corner at Rostov will solidly stay in Russian hands until the battles of 42. By accident this is a good outcome and allows both a potential winter counterattack and defense in depth in the spring.




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 1/1/2017 11:17:05 AM >

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RE: 16 - October 2, 1941 - grand view - 1/1/2017 11:37:48 AM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
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Status: offline 		Here is a view of the entire war with comments and risks identified




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< Message edited by topeverest -- 1/1/2017 11:38:10 AM >

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Andy M

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