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RE: November 1943 - 12/7/2016 7:50:47 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline 		I think the Germans need to start pulling back inside the Donets.

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 361
RE: November 1943 - 12/8/2016 5:20:38 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

I think the Germans need to start pulling back inside the Donets.

They will need to shorten their line and trade ground against time.

The russians are able to easily move a CV80 stack if attacked from 3 sides and a CV50 stack if attacked from 2 sides.

I've noticed that rifle corps with 2 sapper regiments and a tank regiment are more efficient than rifle corps with 3 sapper regiments. I will build a dozen of medium tank regiments as I have a huge pool.

I also build a 43 engineer-brigade as SU to test the efficiency of this unit. they have 25 more sapper squads than sapper regiments and should be stronger.

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 362
RE: November 1943 - 12/8/2016 7:40:47 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 3509
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Back in Blighty
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quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


I also build a 43 engineer-brigade as SU to test the efficiency of this unit. they have 25 more sapper squads than sapper regiments and should be stronger.


If these are the ones with some labour squads in, they don't do combat: only digging.

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(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 363
RE: November 1943 - 12/9/2016 7:43:56 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


I also build a 43 engineer-brigade as SU to test the efficiency of this unit. they have 25 more sapper squads than sapper regiments and should be stronger.


If these are the ones with some labour squads in, they don't do combat: only digging.

I will wheck when I get the turn back...

(in reply to sillyflower)
Post #: 364
November 1943 - 12/9/2016 7:56:29 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 126, 11th november 1943

25th anniversary of 1918's victory... and snow all over the front.

Novgorod
A 3 inf divs stack in woods can't resist. Note that the german mountain divs which were holding the line in front of Baku are now near Leningrad.



Center

Slow advance but we can now advance where we want.

German bombers without fighters are an easy prey.



Southern bulge

Heavy fights east of Rostov and southeast of Kursk. A breakthrough South of Boguchar. a german airbase is mopped up.





(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 365
RE: November 1943 - 12/12/2016 5:38:22 AM   
vvs007

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/6/2012
Status: offline 		great game and elegant AAR

watching the events more than a year, almost every day to check for updates in the topic :)
could you give a little more statistics (some heroic pilots, the losses, the famous artillery and etc)?
many thanks

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 366
RE: November 1943 - 12/12/2016 2:48:37 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline 		Some good results against the Luftwaffe. I still think the Germans have to withdraw from the front line positions in the Don Bend. They certainly have the room to consolidate and I don't understand why they aren't doing it.

(in reply to vvs007)
Post #: 367
RE: November 1943 - 12/12/2016 4:39:05 PM   
chaos45

 

Posts: 1889
Joined: 1/22/2001
Status: offline 		At this point shortening the line doesnt help the Germans as much as you would think. As then the Soviets concentrate more as well...and with no combat delay on hexes a massive soviet concentration is extremely hard to stop.

The game is slowly tipping to the point the Germans will just have to start retreat or face multiple army sized encirclement losses if they arent careful

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Post #: 368
RE: November 1943 - 12/12/2016 8:25:41 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GDHF

great game and elegant AAR

watching the events more than a year, almost every day to check for updates in the topic :)
could you give a little more statistics (some heroic pilots, the losses, the famous artillery and etc)?
many thanks

Thanks for your kind words.

Tell me which statistics you're interested in.

Below some specific datas.

First, my best leaders per size of headquater. I kept Shaposhnikov at Stavka. Not sure if it's the best choice. At least it's historical.

The global win/loss battle is in my favor!



My best air units. Max TOE moved to 40 early december. I'm heavily using tactical bombers



And my best rifle corps. CV is low due to move and fights. Picture is at the end of the turn



(in reply to vvs007)
Post #: 369
RE: November 1943 - 12/12/2016 8:30:21 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		The losses. Game is intense as shown by the losses of the turn (pictures taken after 90% of the fights were done)

Ground losses



And air losses


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Post #: 370
RE: November 1943 - 12/12/2016 8:35:32 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		And my art unit



Rocket



and tank corps


(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 371
RE: November 1943 - 12/12/2016 10:44:01 PM   
vvs007

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/6/2012
Status: offline 		thank you very much
where is the best Soviet Marshal - Zhukov?

we look forward to continuing fighting, the more that is approaching liberation of my native city Gorlovka (114;95); try to do it without bombers, rocket and art divisions
gg

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 372
RE: November 1943 - 12/13/2016 5:43:25 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf
...I still think the Germans have to withdraw from the front line positions in the Don Bend. They certainly have the room to consolidate and I don't understand why they aren't doing it.

I's hard for the german to choose between time and ground... at the moment, Bobo is doing fine but some parts of the front are now really weakening. He will have an headache...

quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

At this point shortening the line doesnt help the Germans as much as you would think. As then the Soviets concentrate more as well...and with no combat delay on hexes a massive soviet concentration is extremely hard to stop.

The game is slowly tipping to the point the Germans will just have to start retreat or face multiple army sized encirclement losses if they arent careful

It depends on the level of fortification. If the german can prepare a line of level 3 forts with 2 or 3 infs stacked. It can be hard to crack. Unfortunatly for Bobo, I'm now facing in several parts of the front level 0 or 1 forts...

Time is on my side!


(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 373
November 1943 - 12/13/2016 7:44:18 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 127, 18th november 1943

Winter campaign is well on with grinding in several parts of the front. I would bet that unless a large withdrawal is ordered, the german line will collapse before mud 1944.

Leningrad
Axis line is strong in this area. My first goal is to reach gulf of Finland in order to separate the germans and the finns.



Center
the line is now weaker. In some places, I'm facing level forts 0 or 1. That's fine! I also like to see 3 inf divs gathering only 33k men



South
The northern flank of the bulge is strongly defended. The germans are progressively giving up Don bend


(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 374
RE: November 1943 - 12/13/2016 9:17:01 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		The funny thing is that you are a quarter of a year behind the curve in the south, but in the North/Center, the shortest route to Berlin, you are historical.
Will be an interesting and tense endgame+AAR (like before).

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 375
RE: November 1943 - 12/14/2016 5:54:16 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

The funny thing is that you are a quarter of a year behind the curve in the south, but in the North/Center, the shortest route to Berlin, you are historical.
Will be an interesting and tense endgame+AAR (like before).

I thought I was more behind the curve, but it's true. North of Bryansk we are roughly historical. In the South, the frontline should be on the Dniepr. The main difference was Bobo's 1942 campaign. More success, no loss of 6th army.

Below historical frontline.




< Message edited by STEF78 -- 12/14/2016 5:55:10 AM >

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 376
RE: November 1943 - 12/14/2016 8:13:01 PM   
vvs007

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/6/2012
Status: offline 		The front line is really far away from the historical, but the balance of power is better than historical in your favor:

1.01.44 (USSR vs GERMANY(incl sat))
men 6.4 - 4.9 mio
guns 95.6 - 54 k
AFV 5.3 - 5.4 k !!!
planes 10.2 - 3.1 k

We are waiting for ten Stalin's blows



(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 377
RE: November 1943 - 12/14/2016 8:26:43 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		Yes, all in all, it is far behind, but I think here the shortest route to Berlin (Smolensk-Minsk-Warsaw) matters. And there, Stef is fine (a little bit better at Leningrad, a little bit worser at Smolensk). The big buldge in the south will have to be ceded to the Soviet once the frontline becomes too long.
Where do you have your numbers fromGDHF?

(in reply to vvs007)
Post #: 378
RE: November 1943 - 12/14/2016 9:29:43 PM   
vvs007

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/6/2012
Status: offline 		to EwaldvonKleist, paper books - "History WW2" (12;1973) russian




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by GDHF -- 12/14/2016 9:36:25 PM >

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 379
RE: November 1943 - 12/14/2016 9:52:27 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


Posts: 2038
Joined: 4/14/2016
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		Thank you very much GDHF, this is one of the moments when one wants to speak russian.
Well, at my university, one can take russia as a language course. So maybe...
At least there is a similiar work with multiple volumes in my mother language German, called "Das deutsche Reich und der Zweite Weltkrieg", one or two of them were even translated into english.

(in reply to vvs007)
Post #: 380
RE: November 1943 - 12/15/2016 9:03:58 AM   
tolsdorff

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 12/12/2016
Status: offline 		I learned to read russian which goes rather well. speaking it is an entirely different thing though! extremely difficult to understand spoken russian.

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 381
November 1943 - 12/18/2016 8:30:37 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 128, 25th november 1943

Major rivers aren't still frozen. Some axis units benefit from rest before storm.

Leningrad

We have reached the gulf of Finland. German units and finns units are separated!



Center

The germans give some ground between Kursk and Orel. Without level 3 entrenchment a PzGrD is unable to resist.



Don bend

Heavy fights east of Kharkov. The germans give up 20 miles between Boguchar and Rostov



< Message edited by STEF78 -- 12/18/2016 8:33:11 PM >

(in reply to tolsdorff)
Post #: 382
RE: November 1943 - 12/18/2016 11:47:34 PM   
vvs007

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/6/2012
Status: offline 		I'm afraid that will leave the game in favor of the game vs Bozo
well that is another game quickly ended (do not be offended - it's just a joke)

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 383
RE: November 1943 - 12/19/2016 7:31:59 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GDHF

I'm afraid that will leave the game in favor of the game vs Bozo
well that is another game quickly ended (do not be offended - it's just a joke)

Bozo is the best player I've played against (except maybe Schascha). We did 3 games and I lost 3 times. My best performance was when I played the germans. As already written I would have liked to see him against Michael T or Sapper222.


(in reply to vvs007)
Post #: 384
RE: November 1943 - 12/20/2016 1:03:56 AM   
vvs007

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/6/2012
Status: offline 		WITE has a lot of problems with balance and movement rules, the supply system
-build up
-units have no front or rear
-the supply of all army using a single branch railway
-inability to destroy the air on this branch of the railway
etc etc

these unhistorical and unrelated to real life

Take for example counterattacks mechanized corps of the Red Army, in the game it is a useless thing, a suicide, but in real life Zhukov won a lot of time, resources, caused serious damage to the Wehrmacht and save Kiev from the same as the quick capture of Minsk

there are gamers who have learned to very good use of those errors mechanics
do not like such achievements but nevertheless, we love exactly this game - in other games mechanics more far from reality

< Message edited by GDHF -- 12/20/2016 1:05:20 AM >

(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 385
RE: November 1943 - 12/20/2016 8:52:08 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Been reading since I started my game as the ruskies.

Osmosis isn't working for me, so I will just have to learn the old fashioned way - by studying others' results.
great insight here. Thanks





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(in reply to vvs007)
Post #: 386
RE: November 1943 - 12/21/2016 6:39:56 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GDHF

...WITE has a lot of problems with balance and movement rules, the supply system
-build up
-units have no front or rear
-the supply of all army using a single branch railway
-inability to destroy the air on this branch of the railway...

Agreed.

The game isn't perfect. I would had to the list above:
- Permissive logistics allowing german Pzd to move several hundred of miles without rest...
- Encircled units unable to resist more than 2 weeks
- Time/scale. Due to the IGOYOUGO-one week turn, and in order to avoid great encirclement, the russians build a 40 miles deep defence. That's unhistorical.
- AFV losses are far too low
- once they have the initiative, the russians are able to attack during a whole season without rest

But it's the best simulation of WW2 eastern front so far


(in reply to vvs007)
Post #: 387
RE: November 1943 - 12/21/2016 6:42:16 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Been reading since I started my game as the ruskies.

Osmosis isn't working for me, so I will just have to learn the old fashioned way - by studying others' results.
great insight here. Thanks

Thanks

Learning through others AAR is a good way.

But my best lessons come from my personal mistakes/defeats against human players

(in reply to topeverest)
Post #: 388
December 1943 - 12/21/2016 8:47:46 AM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 129, 2nd december 1943

Russian winter is here. Major rivers won't be an issue within 2 weeks.



Leningrad

The battle for Leningrad has begun. Finns are well entrenched but they are fighting at 1 against 10. And I must sack this Krylov!



Center

The german line is always weaker between Smolensk and Orel



Don bend

The germans are giving 10/20 miles. It prevents hasty attacks.



(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 389
December 1943 - 1/1/2017 6:45:46 PM   
STEF78


Posts: 2094
Joined: 2/19/2012
From: Versailles, France
Status: offline 		Turn 130, 9th december 1943

Slow rate of update as we played only 2 turns during the last 3 weeks and as we are only 2 turns ahead. That's why some areas in the center are hidden.

Center

The german line holds but time is hard for front line german units. A routed german Pzd is losing only 20 afv...



Don bend

The germans are still giving 20 miles per week but try to hold Rostov. Very strong line in front of Kharkov


(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 390
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