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Attacks into/from Marsh Hexes should be more restricted

 
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Attacks into/from Marsh Hexes should be more restricted - 1/2/2017 4:02:14 PM   
Malor

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		I think an adjustment needs to be made to slow down units in a marsh hex. I've see axis tanks move thru three marsh hexes and perform two attacks against another unit in a marsh hex. Seems strange for a tank to be able to move so easily in a marsh.

Maybe increasing the move cost for tanks in a marsh hex and reduce the number of attacks down to one when attacking from a marsh hex. Tanks are open country units and should be severely restricted in a marsh. Just the amount of effort to keep them fueled by support trucks would slow down movement very quickly.

I also think tanks should receive a penalty when attacking a city. Right now, they are the best unit to use when in reality, they were normally the worst. Anyone with minor explosives could attack each tank from the flanks and damage them. In the game, they attack and cause so much damage without taking loses that it does not make sense.

Thanks for listening.
Malor

< Message edited by Malor -- 1/2/2017 4:03:52 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Attacks into/from Marsh Hexes should be more restri... - 1/3/2017 5:23:31 PM   
bwheatley

 

Posts: 3650
Joined: 12/13/2004
Status: offline 		Agree. +1

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RE: Attacks into/from Marsh Hexes should be more restri... - 1/3/2017 10:19:54 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Meanwhile I do agree for the swamps, I'd like to remember that armoured units are not "only and exclusively tanks", but it is a formation including armour, infantry (motorized or mechanized) and support units; usually including assault engineers / sturm pionere formations.

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Post #: 3
RE: Attacks into/from Marsh Hexes should be more restri... - 1/5/2017 9:04:48 PM   
Dmondragon75

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 1/4/2016
Status: offline 		Agree +1

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 4
RE: Attacks into/from Marsh Hexes should be more restri... - 1/5/2017 9:29:19 PM   
Goodmongo

 

Posts: 346
Joined: 9/22/2011
Status: offline 		Marshes did have roads in them. And moving 3 hexes is about 60 miles in a turn which is not unrealistic since turns last from 7 to 21 days.

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Post #: 5
RE: Attacks into/from Marsh Hexes should be more restri... - 1/6/2017 2:10:14 AM   
Malor

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		I've looked at the map a little more and I've noticed that where I'm seeing the unrealistic movement is where the marsh hex has a river in it. There is no movement penalty assigned to those hexes. There are many around on the map but they can easy be found around Novograd (Southeast of Leningrad). The same goes for forest hexes with a river in it. There is no movement penalty assigned to river/marsh river/forest when the same type of hex without the river right next to them has a +1 penalty. In the mountains, the river does not drop the penalty to zero.

The lack of penalty makes the river act as a clear land and defeats the purpose of calling the hex a marsh or forest. If the hex is to be treated as clear, than the map should be updated to show a clear land graphic, not marsh or forest.

Also, look at the road/marsh/river hex SE of Kaunas. It does not have a penalty. However the two road/marsh hexes to the NW do have a penalty of +1. Another example is the Priyat marshes. The road/rail through the center along the river has no penalty, which makes sense because of the road, but the hexes south of Pinsk with the rivers in them also show no penalty, but they are shown as marsh, which makes a nice north/south road in that area (without the graphic).

The penalties are not consistently applied to the terrain shown on the map. Either the map is showing the wrong graphic or the data under the map is not setup correctly. The differences need to be cleaned up so they are the same across the map.

I read my comments twice and I want to make it clear, I'm not nagging. I like this game and want to see the issues corrected to make it balanced and more playable without cheats. The issues with movement in marshes is a bug in my eyes and needs to be corrected (either hex graphic update or penalty update) so it is clear to the player what they are dealing with.

Thanks for listening.
Malor

(in reply to Goodmongo)
Post #: 6
RE: Attacks into/from Marsh Hexes should be more restri... - 1/6/2017 8:00:06 PM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		Hi Malor

I'm looking at this but I seem to be getting different results, as if I go to move a unit into a hex with a river and marsh it is charging 2 APs for doing so, as in the image below.

If you are seeing different results elsewhere I'd be interested in seeing more.

Thanks

Bill




Attachment (1)

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(in reply to Malor)
Post #: 7
RE: Attacks into/from Marsh Hexes should be more restri... - 1/6/2017 11:18:37 PM   
Malor

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		Bill,

I'm not actually selecting a unit when I'm reviewing the movement cost. I'm just hovering the mouse over a hex and reading the info displayed in the bottom left control panel.

For the hex shown in your image with a 3 in it (the end of the path), I see a movement cost of zero while the two hexes to the NE and SE of the hex (across the river but still marsh show +1 movement cost. I would expect a zero penalty for the first hex in the path because of the road, but not because of the river.

For another example, follow the river east of Novograd until it hits the next city. The hexes with a river have a zero movement cost and the ones without the river have a +1 cost in the display. I'm trying to understand why the river would reduce cost because it not like the units are floating on it. They could navigate along it of course, but in a game of this scale, I don't think that makes sense because they still would need to fight in the entire hex.

Based on your image, the issue may be a simple display issue with the panel. But since I've see tanks move through marsh like it does not exist I think an additional penalty for tanks is required. At the unit scale the game uses (Army and Corps) that could mean anywhere from 20000-60000+ men and their machines moving through a marsh. While I agree it is possible, I don't think they could do it and still remain a fighting force at the other end without time to rest and reorg. Moving three hexes and still being able to attack twice is a big stretch, even when the turns are four weeks long, I.E. "winter" which would add it's own issues.

How can I generate a screen print from within the game to attach after adding my notes to help descript what I'm seeing?

Thanks for listening.
Malor

(in reply to BillRunacre)
Post #: 8
RE: Attacks into/from Marsh Hexes should be more restri... - 1/8/2017 1:53:50 PM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		Hi Malor

I see what you mean, as the Interface panel is probably only reading the potential penalty due to the river (in this case set to none) rather than the marsh.

So the movement is penalised, but the display there doesn't reflect it.

Your Print Screen button would generate an image for pasting into a image programme, but no need in this case as I can see what you're saying here.

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(in reply to Malor)
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