Allied Invasion - May 1943

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Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/29/2016 2:41:50 PM

Beruldsen

Posts: 174
Joined: 2/15/2011
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So...it's May 1943 and my Axis forces are doing well in the East ... Leningrad, Kiev and even Moscow are in my hands ... the balance has clearly turned in my favor as the Russians entire southern defenses have collapsed. In Africa, I'm close to taking Cairo (I opted for taking all of France and this delayed moving across Africa. And then to my surprise 20 allied units landed in France in May of 1943. I assumed an invasion wouldn't occur for another year and I only had a few token corps in France. Is this normal? Did I completely mismanage my sub force in the Atlantic? I moved most of the subs to the Mediterranean and had some success destroying the English Aircraft carriers. I left the German Fleet in the Baltic.

Any thoughts on how I can delay an allied invasion for at least a year?

Post #: 1

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/29/2016 4:18:08 PM

n0kn0k

Posts: 564
Joined: 6/23/2007
Status: offline

Yes it happens. The A.I. will attack early when it has a proper force to attack with.
Scout with your subs and look for a U.S. buildup. They might also go to Africa though. Good luck!

(in reply to Beruldsen)

Post #: 2

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/29/2016 5:43:27 PM

Ironclad

Posts: 1924
Joined: 11/22/2006
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Or even both NA and France in 43 which happened in my most recent game. The former being more of a spoiler to the main event on the continent which followed a few turns later.

(in reply to n0kn0k)

Post #: 3

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/29/2016 7:14:52 PM

stockwellpete

Posts: 582
Joined: 12/20/2012
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I am just reading something on WW2 at the momnt and it is suggesting that Churchill did everything he could to forestall an attack on western Europe during 1942-4 because he was concerned that the USA would quickly come to dominate any military campaign against Nazi Germany. Although the USA and Britain were allies they were also imperial rivals too (spheres of influence etc).

I am wondering if this is modelled at all in the game and, if not, whether it could be, so as to be an occasional factor that might delay the invasion of France for a random number of extra months?

(in reply to Ironclad)

Post #: 4

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/29/2016 7:42:03 PM

Ironclad

Posts: 1924
Joined: 11/22/2006
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Yes the game is accurately modelling the possibility of the earliest possible invasion by the Allies dependent on circumstances.

The USA had a firm strategic view that the correct strategy against Germany was to attack the enemies main concentration ie in France and the Low countries and avoid side shows which they knew the Britich tended to favour. They had the resouces planned to achieve this and it fitted their (the Union) military doctrine from the Civil War and reflected in USA war plans for WW1 success.

The British had bitter memories of the carnage of the Western front in WW1, as well as the Western/Dunkirk debacle and were very conscious of just how deadly German formations were in battle. They wanted to prepare carefully for the main attack preferably after the Germans had suffered greater attrition ie eastern front and in the air war over Germany, and saw the Mediterranean as a means to divert/delay the Americans from a premature attack across the channel, as well as a useful opportunity to weaken the Axis by taking out NA and Italy plus giving the many green troops essential combat experience against more of the second rate enemy units. An added consideration was that the Atlantic campaign had to be won the enable the massive build up of material and men to be concentrated in the UK and it wasn't until mid 43 that the Uboat menace was tamed.

There was actually a plan for an invasion as early as 42 called Roundup but this would only apply if the Germans had collapsed in the East. The main event could not happen earlier than 43 but the delay to 44 meant it occurred with the Allies chances of success massively more favourable compared to the position twelve months earlier.

(in reply to stockwellpete)

Post #: 5

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/29/2016 9:44:56 PM

MasterDust

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Joined: 12/16/2014
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I'm hearing all the valid explanations--but it won't wash. I like this game more than I thought I would, but there are serious issues with it which I'll address when I have more time for a separate posting. I had both Cairo and Leningrad. Moscow and Stalingrad (later captured) were still a long way off and Bang! the May 1943 Northern France invasion. At LEAST 20 units. It happened both on Normal and Rookie settings. Maybe there's a trigger if the Axis gets too far ahead or close to Moscow. But, frankly, it should be adjusted with a Patch. Unlike Commander Europe at War where there are limits to both transports and landing crafts (Maximum Amphibious Warfare Research be damned.) the floodgates open and in one turn you have an instant Eastern Front situation in the West. This is dead wrong. And, don't get me started on the Aircraft Tech Creep. The UK got the Gloster Meteor jet operational in the closing weeks of the war--not Spring 1943!
Like I say--Fury I like your game and you've made some money off it. Now PLEASE fix it.

(in reply to Ironclad)

Post #: 6

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/29/2016 10:04:52 PM

ILCK

Posts: 422
Joined: 6/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bowie

I'm hearing all the valid explanations--but it won't wash. I like this game more than I thought I would, but there are serious issues with it which I'll address when I have more time for a separate posting. I had both Cairo and Leningrad. Moscow and Stalingrad (later captured) were still a long way off and Bang! the May 1943 Northern France invasion. At LEAST 20 units. It happened both on Normal and Rookie settings. Maybe there's a trigger if the Axis gets too far ahead or close to Moscow. But, frankly, it should be adjusted with a Patch. Unlike Commander Europe at War where there are limits to both transports and landing crafts (Maximum Amphibious Warfare Research be damned.) the floodgates open and in one turn you have an instant Eastern Front situation in the West. This is dead wrong. And, don't get me started on the Aircraft Tech Creep. The UK got the Gloster Meteor jet operational in the closing weeks of the war--not Spring 1943!
Like I say--Fury I like your game and you've made some money off it. Now PLEASE fix it.

You can edit the technology costs. I have pondered it because of the the air progression, among others, but I am not sure if a higher cost will convince the AI to spend elsewhere or just spend crazy amounts to keep doing the same thing.

(in reply to MasterDust)

Post #: 7

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/29/2016 10:43:03 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

Here is a situation, April 1943.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Beruldsen)

Post #: 8

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/29/2016 10:43:52 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
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Here is one turn later. This certainly looks like a disaster for the Axis Player. However, against the Computer [running the Allies] it is
not an irretrievable situation and is actually a nice challenge. This invasion has nothing to do with progress on the other fronts. It may
happen elsewhere, but normally occurs in NW Europe. While I can agree that historically the Allies never had enough transport for so many
corps, from a game-challenge perspective, anything less wouldn't require the movement of Axis assets from other fronts [which took place
historically starting in 1942].

Attachment (1)

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 9

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/29/2016 10:44:38 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

In my current game [pictured below] it is March 1943, and I am waiting for it. Something may happen soon, or maybe not. It feels like an
integral part of the Strategy of SC3. Without it, it would be too easy, I think.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 10

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/29/2016 11:09:09 PM

Ironclad

Posts: 1924
Joined: 11/22/2006
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Here's the situation at the end of my recent game with an Axis major victory just announced. By this time the Allies have been held and forced back from their initial lodgement having lost probably half the ground units committed. Their landing in 43 followed an earlier landing in North Africa so hairy time for the Axis engaged in offensives to take Moscow, Stalingrad and Murmansk and poised to invade Persia.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Ironclad -- 12/29/2016 11:12:49 PM >

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 11

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/29/2016 11:12:24 PM

Ironclad

Posts: 1924
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

After being stunned (and impressed} by the AI Allied invasions in my first couple of games, I learnt to keep a decent garrison in the west including a couple of fighter units all up to strength and upgraded supplemented by a vigorous uboat canmpaign supported by surface naval forays where possible. Inevitably redeployments are required from the east together with most of available reinforcements and key research - advanced aircraft, subs and tanks is a high priority. It has meant things get tight in the east but its still possible to maintain the offensive there provided the Soviets remain inferior in terms of battle field technology.

(in reply to Ironclad)

Post #: 12

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/29/2016 11:23:27 PM

Meyer1

Posts: 899
Joined: 2/9/2010
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I`m suffering a '43 invasion right now, pretty impressive... loving it. I don't want it to be exactly like the real war, it�s nice to be surprised.

(in reply to Ironclad)

Post #: 13

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/30/2016 12:23:08 AM

aaatoysandmore

Posts: 2848
Joined: 9/11/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bowie

I'm hearing all the valid explanations--but it won't wash. I like this game more than I thought I would, but there are serious issues with it which I'll address when I have more time for a separate posting. I had both Cairo and Leningrad. Moscow and Stalingrad (later captured) were still a long way off and Bang! the May 1943 Northern France invasion. At LEAST 20 units. It happened both on Normal and Rookie settings. Maybe there's a trigger if the Axis gets too far ahead or close to Moscow. But, frankly, it should be adjusted with a Patch. Unlike Commander Europe at War where there are limits to both transports and landing crafts (Maximum Amphibious Warfare Research be damned.) the floodgates open and in one turn you have an instant Eastern Front situation in the West. This is dead wrong. And, don't get me started on the Aircraft Tech Creep. The UK got the Gloster Meteor jet operational in the closing weeks of the war--not Spring 1943!
Like I say--Fury I like your game and you've made some money off it. Now PLEASE fix it.

It's WAD and nothing wrong with an early invasion at the right opportunity. I like the design and there is "nothing" to fix.

(in reply to MasterDust)

Post #: 14

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/30/2016 8:25:24 PM

MasterDust

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/16/2014
Status: offline

Okay, so I've had a chance to cool down from my original post above... I DO appreciate the screen capture shots and commentary from sPzAbt653 and Ironclad. Good to know this forum is being vigorously utilized. Although I had stopped playing my game as Axis in Summer 1943, I now see that I am not yet toast. Troops operate shifted East to West, etc. (Although I am seriously outclassed in Air Power.)
My initial gripe was NOT so much because of WHEN the D-Day landing took place, in 1943, but HOW it took place. The numbers and how far inland troops can advance. Seemed a bit gamey to me. But then, I guess you could argue if the landing craft/transport numbers were more historically accurate it wouldn't be as much of a challenge.
I don't mind if the game deviates from the historical WW2 record as long as it's within reason. Yes, it should be a "little" unpredictable. I still don't like the idea of being pounded by Allied jets in 1943. (Potential Luftwaffe squadron kill in 2-3 strikes. This while I'm losing an average of one full-strength Corps per turn just from bombing. I'm at levels 1 & 2 anti-air.) But I guess I'll have to get used to it.
There is a learning curve with this game. And much of it has to do with Research. This is what separates this game from others. And, yes, I still haven't quite wrapped my head around it all. Maybe I'll leave it at that.
There are still some glitches causing game shut downs that should be addressed, however. Playing as Allies and just moving Yugoslav/Albanian Partisans has caused the game to stop. "Left Button" something or other. So, a suggestion for a Patch of some sort might not be unreasonable.

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)

Post #: 15

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/30/2016 9:12:50 PM

Ironclad

Posts: 1924
Joined: 11/22/2006
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AA research is also very useful for the Axis in the west. I used to regard it as a luxury, which is true against Russia, but the air situation in the west cries out for some protection for combat units and resources against devastating allied air power. This is especially the case given that there is no restriction on the number of air attacks on individual units (unlike say the limit of 2 per hex maximum in CEAW-Grand Strategy) which means that units can be pulverised or considerably weakened by air power alone combined with the the serious and increasingly heavy MPP losses from strategic bombers with their two strike rates.

(in reply to MasterDust)

Post #: 16

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/30/2016 9:30:58 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline

Some of you might be interested in taking a look at the '653H Mod' in the Mod Section. It does address some concerns, such as double strikes and fast research, along with other things. However, I have to this point left the Allied invasion abilities as they are in the stock campaign [it works the other way also - the Germans can do a large scale Sea Lion]. But since 653H is tailored toward the historic, I'm not against making a possible change. I just have to be sure that I am not unbalancing the game and totally wrecking all the excellent work that B&H have put into it.

I'm still working on 653H to squeeze in Free France, and to get Build Limits stable. So, while it is quite playable now, a newer version is probably less than two weeks away.

(in reply to MasterDust)

Post #: 17

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 12/31/2016 1:23:21 AM

ILCK

Posts: 422
Joined: 6/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ironclad

After being stunned (and impressed} by the AI Allied invasions in my first couple of games, I learnt to keep a decent garrison in the west including a couple of fighter units all up to strength and upgraded supplemented by a vigorous uboat canmpaign supported by surface naval forays where possible. Inevitably redeployments are required from the east together with most of available reinforcements and key research - advanced aircraft, subs and tanks is a high priority. It has meant things get tight in the east but its still possible to maintain the offensive there provided the Soviets remain inferior in terms of battle field technology.

I tend to send a large % of all the German corps West to hold while the armies, tanks and mech fight in the east.

The Americans love to spend on air tech so advanced aircraft are critical or your fighters will get chewed up.

(in reply to Ironclad)

Post #: 18

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 1/1/2017 9:26:25 PM

Titan

Posts: 482
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: new Zealand
Status: offline

Ive been playing CEAW to long and i got caught out big time by the 43 invasion. Im fighting tooth and nail in east cant expand my army as all rsourses are spent replacing either destroyed Divsions or used on replacemnts. Then BANG!!!! Allies land and i had nothing but a few Garrisions in the west. Franceliberated with several turns pulling what i can back from the east to western front...Soviet AI keeps the pressure and starts breaking through many areas in the east as Axis army is in a full dis-orderly retreat. We are September 43 and i have a feeling this will end in tears but its been great to get ripped apart by the AI....Only Bright spot is ive captured Cairo

(in reply to ILCK)

Post #: 19

RE: Allied Invasion - May 1943 - 1/3/2017 12:10:33 AM

SgtKachalin

Posts: 45
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ironclad

AA research is also very useful for the Axis in the west. I used to regard it as a luxury, which is true against Russia, but the air situation in the west cries out for some protection for combat units and resources against devastating allied air power. This is especially the case given that there is no restriction on the number of air attacks on individual units (unlike say the limit of 2 per hex maximum in CEAW-Grand Strategy) which means that units can be pulverised or considerably weakened by air power alone combined with the the serious and increasingly heavy MPP losses from strategic bombers with their two strike rates.

Hugely useful; I've researched up to AA 2, and have all units in the west (incl garrisons) at least at AA 1. Also put AA 1 on all cities, mines, etc. in N. France. The AI has pretty much ceased all air 'harrasment' in the west.

Don't know if that's what did it, but it seems to be working.

< Message edited by Sgt Barker -- 1/3/2017 12:11:34 AM >

(in reply to Ironclad)

Post #: 20