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Interception of Transport Planes - 1/3/2017 9:05:52 AM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline 		Can they be intercepted? In what phase?

Subsidiary question:

If a player sets a LRCAP in an area far from target but on the flying path of an incoming enemy's strike flight, is there any chance his CAP shall intercept the incoming planes?

for example, suppose Japanese bombers are targeting an objective in Java from East, for example southern Borneo, but the Allied player has set a LRCAP in an hex which is right on bombers approaching path, over Java Sea, some hexes far away from their target. any chance for an interception?

TIA

Adar
Post #: 1
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/3/2017 11:03:00 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Air missions are strictly point to point. The flight path is not modelled into the game engine, so interception in a hex along the flight path is impossible.

You have two options:
LRCAP the destination base (actual air combat happening but not modelled in the replay as it happens after the pm phase) or LRCAP the base of origin which will abstract combat by increasing op losses for all planes operation from there.

edit: when you CAP destination base the replay will display an according message ('transports flying to x intercepted')

< Message edited by LoBaron -- 1/3/2017 11:27:44 AM >

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RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/3/2017 3:19:26 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Air missions are strictly point to point. The flight path is not modelled into the game engine, so interception in a hex along the flight path is impossible.

You have two options:
LRCAP the destination base (actual air combat happening but not modelled in the replay as it happens after the pm phase) or LRCAP the base of origin which will abstract combat by increasing op losses for all planes operation from there.

edit: when you CAP destination base the replay will display an according message ('transports flying to x intercepted')


When planes are intercepted, they are shown as air-to-air losses. I can't speak as to whether the presence of LRCAP or CAP increases ops losses.

Also, I've never been able to get the "intercepted" message using LRCAP - only CAP with the proper range settings and capabilities (IIRC from the beta patch notes the base being intercepted must be within half of normal range for the plane on CAP). It also depends on altitude, apparently...

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 3
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/3/2017 4:51:37 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		LRCAP has been effective in intercepting transports all the way back to Uncommon Valor.

Used to see lots more of it in UV than I see now though so I hope it wasn't nerfed.

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Post #: 4
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/3/2017 9:30:22 PM   
RogerJNeilson


Posts: 1277
Joined: 4/12/2012
From: Bedlington, Northumberland, UK
Status: offline 		I operate on the basis that sweeps will intercept provided they are at 4 or less hexes range. I picked that up in an AAR a while back and have used it to good effect.

Roger

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RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/3/2017 11:44:39 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline 		Roger: you meant they intercept any kind of airplane/mission?

But what do you mean by 4 hexes distance? You can sweep only over an enemy base, isn't it?
Therefore, the sweeping aircrafts shall have a chance to intercept enemy airplanes bounded to, or originating from, a base wich is within 4 hexes from the target you've chosen?

Please furtherly explain

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Post #: 6
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 12:08:54 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Air missions are strictly point to point. The flight path is not modelled into the game engine, so interception in a hex along the flight path is impossible.

You have two options:
LRCAP the destination base (actual air combat happening but not modelled in the replay as it happens after the pm phase) or LRCAP the base of origin which will abstract combat by increasing op losses for all planes operation from there.

edit: when you CAP destination base the replay will display an according message ('transports flying to x intercepted')


When planes are intercepted, they are shown as air-to-air losses. I can't speak as to whether the presence of LRCAP or CAP increases ops losses.

Also, I've never been able to get the "intercepted" message using LRCAP - only CAP with the proper range settings and capabilities (IIRC from the beta patch notes the base being intercepted must be within half of normal range for the plane on CAP). It also depends on altitude, apparently...

You should see it in the Ops report ...

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Post #: 7
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 12:10:24 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Roger: you meant they intercept any kind of airplane/mission?

But what do you mean by 4 hexes distance? You can sweep only over an enemy base, isn't it?
Therefore, the sweeping aircrafts shall have a chance to intercept enemy airplanes bounded to, or originating from, a base wich is within 4 hexes from the target you've chosen?

Please furtherly explain

They can, but my experience is that there is some probability involved. LRCAP is far more effective on a routine basis, but it really hits the groups fatigue and morale. So it is hard to do long term....

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Post #: 8
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 12:49:32 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

Air missions are strictly point to point. The flight path is not modelled into the game engine, so interception in a hex along the flight path is impossible.

You have two options:
LRCAP the destination base (actual air combat happening but not modelled in the replay as it happens after the pm phase) or LRCAP the base of origin which will abstract combat by increasing op losses for all planes operation from there.

edit: when you CAP destination base the replay will display an according message ('transports flying to x intercepted')


When planes are intercepted, they are shown as air-to-air losses. I can't speak as to whether the presence of LRCAP or CAP increases ops losses.

Also, I've never been able to get the "intercepted" message using LRCAP - only CAP with the proper range settings and capabilities (IIRC from the beta patch notes the base being intercepted must be within half of normal range for the plane on CAP). It also depends on altitude, apparently...

You should see it in the Ops report ...


And during the replay, but I don't unless I:

1) use CAP, not LRCAP
2) meet the other requirements (under half normal range, etc.)

Also, they are air to air losses, not ops. Ops losses are something else.

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Post #: 9
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 3:45:44 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		I've seen enemy flak take down transport planes too.

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Post #: 10
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 5:26:13 AM   
RogerJNeilson


Posts: 1277
Joined: 4/12/2012
From: Bedlington, Northumberland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Roger: you meant they intercept any kind of airplane/mission?

But what do you mean by 4 hexes distance? You can sweep only over an enemy base, isn't it?
Therefore, the sweeping aircrafts shall have a chance to intercept enemy airplanes bounded to, or originating from, a base wich is within 4 hexes from the target you've chosen?

Please furtherly explain


Transport planes flying to or from a base will in my experience be intercepted if I have my fighters on a sweep mission targeting that base provided my fighters are flying from their own base that is within 4 hexes of the intercept base. This is of course subject to the normal supply, base size, weather etc etc.....

Doing a search through my archived combat reports I located 530 instances of this... the last one being:

War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition\SAVE\archive\Combat_Events_440325.txt
00166: Transports flying to Tandjoengbalai intercepted
00167: Transports flying to Sorong intercepted
00168: Transports flying to Sorong intercepted

It doesn't tell you the results of the interceptions, but looking at the plane losses for that move would indicate some were shot down whilst the others will have turned back. Its 8 months ago in game time so I don't have the data any more in Tracker from then.

I suspect since then my opponent realised and stopped flying into bases where I was sweeping in this manner.

I used a program called Windows Grep (Open source) to search all the text files.

Incidentally you also get a report in the aoperations report for example....

War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition\SAVE\aoperationsreport_431029.txt
00251: Transports flying to Raba intercepted





Roger

< Message edited by Roger Neilson 3 -- 1/4/2017 6:43:19 AM >

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Post #: 11
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 8:46:58 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Sweeps do not intercept transport missions Roger. They tangle with either CAP or LRCAP under the right circumstances, thats it.

What you might experience is one of the following:
1) leaky CAP due to proximity between bases.
2) inadvertedly set LRCAP

LRCAP against transports works as advertised. The effectiveness significantly decreases with mission range though. There was a bug with LRCAP not engaging transports effectively due to incorrect range calculations. Michael fixed it in one of the betas about 12-18 months ago IIRC.

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Post #: 12
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 8:51:31 AM   
RogerJNeilson


Posts: 1277
Joined: 4/12/2012
From: Bedlington, Northumberland, UK
Status: offline 		Interesting, as I have intercepts occurring in the past, and I don't use LRCAP because of the fatigue that it incurs, and the units were set to sweep the base in question - but it was a while ago so maybe its a feature of the Beta of the time which has now been sorted. I have no up to date information as my opponent seems to have stopped trying to evacuate or reinforce where I am sweeping.

Roger



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Post #: 13
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 9:45:01 AM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline 		Is the LRCAP on enemy's airport effective only against transport planes, or even against other outbound missions and planes?

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Post #: 14
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 9:50:11 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3

Interesting, as I have intercepts occurring in the past, and I don't use LRCAP because of the fatigue that it incurs, and the units were set to sweep the base in question - but it was a while ago so maybe its a feature of the Beta of the time which has now been sorted. I have no up to date information as my opponent seems to have stopped trying to evacuate or reinforce where I am sweeping.

Roger




Roger I do not doubt what you say. I am 99.9% sure though that you are not witnessing a cause/effect relationship but rather a random correlation between settings and events. That happens a lot in WitP and people tend to jump conclusions before they ran any proper verification and negative tests. Thats how all those hard to debuff urban legends are born.

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Post #: 15
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 9:54:12 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Is the LRCAP on enemy's airport effective only against transport planes, or even against other outbound missions and planes?


It is effective on all outbound missions. Note that this is highly abstracted to mitigate limitations in the game engine, which is to my best knowledge also the reason for losses not showing up as A2A but rather as op losses.

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Post #: 16
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 6:11:01 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Is the LRCAP on enemy's airport effective only against transport planes, or even against other outbound missions and planes?


It is effective on all outbound missions. Note that this is highly abstracted to mitigate limitations in the game engine, which is to my best knowledge also the reason for losses not showing up as A2A but rather as op losses.


I will try again with LRCAP - perhaps I wasn't meeting the range requirements or something.

However, I am going to reiterate that without a doubt the losses show up as A2A and not Ops. Likewise with flak losses from enemy flak at the destination - they show up as flak.

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Post #: 17
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 6:17:06 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I've seen enemy flak take down transport planes too.


Heavy flak will murder transports carrying an air born assault. It is nice to see.

Other than that, I use LRCAP to interdict transports. They will engage escorts and sometimes can have a bloody air battle that nobody ever sees in the replay. Sometimes they miss the transports but that is OK because a lot of troop transport happened at night for just that reason. OP losses on transports are very high so it all seems to work out in the end.

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Post #: 18
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 7:04:22 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I've seen enemy flak take down transport planes too.


Heavy flak will murder transports carrying an air born assault. It is nice to see.
Oh, yes - I forgot about that! Also, I recently saw flying boats damaged and at leas tone destroyed at a base I had captured shortly before. They had to be pulling out troops.

Other than that, I use LRCAP to interdict transports. They will engage escorts and sometimes can have a bloody air battle that nobody ever sees in the replay. Sometimes they miss the transports but that is OK because a lot of troop transport happened at night for just that reason. OP losses on transports are very high so it all seems to work out in the end.



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RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/4/2017 10:45:59 PM   
SheperdN7


Posts: 296
Joined: 2/23/2016
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Status: offline 		+1000 on the heavy flak point by crsutton. I got a baptism by fire in my first para-drop, that's for sure.

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RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/8/2017 8:00:41 AM   
LoBaron


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From: Vienna, Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
However, I am going to reiterate that without a doubt the losses show up as A2A and not Ops. Likewise with flak losses from enemy flak at the destination - they show up as flak.


Indeed. CAP the destination base of outbound (i.e. Transport) missions and losses will show up as A2A. CAP the homebase of outbound and the result will be an increase of op losses.

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Post #: 21
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/8/2017 6:13:50 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

LRCAP against transports works as advertised. The effectiveness significantly decreases with mission range though. There was a bug with LRCAP not engaging transports effectively due to incorrect range calculations. Michael fixed it in one of the betas about 12-18 months ago IIRC.


I'm playing a stock game and I hope this isn't the reason why I've been unable to interdict Japanese transports flying troops out from right under my nose. In eight months, using CAP, LRCAP, day/night and various altitude settings over destination bases, I have not caused a single transport loss to my knowledge.


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Post #: 22
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/8/2017 8:03:41 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

LRCAP against transports works as advertised. The effectiveness significantly decreases with mission range though. There was a bug with LRCAP not engaging transports effectively due to incorrect range calculations. Michael fixed it in one of the betas about 12-18 months ago IIRC.


I'm playing a stock game and I hope this isn't the reason why I've been unable to interdict Japanese transports flying troops out from right under my nose. In eight months, using CAP, LRCAP, day/night and various altitude settings over destination bases, I have not caused a single transport loss to my knowledge.



You have!

We are also playing a recent beta, so the fix is included.

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Post #: 23
RE: Interception of Transport Planes - 1/9/2017 7:49:12 PM   
Alpha77

 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 9/24/2010
Status: offline 		LR CAP vs. transport works - atleast 1 hex from pegu to rangoon and yes,they hsow as air to air losses (that is the transports were flying to rangoon).. but it height of both parties is a factor too

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Post #: 24
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