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Scoring Issue! Winning Weakest Link without flying anything!

 
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Scoring Issue! Winning Weakest Link without flying anyt... - 1/12/2017 8:29:04 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		Ok this is weird!

Playing .48 Beta.

I wanted to test a GND Attack on an enemy airfield (Krefeld/Venlo) so in the middle of my game I erased all ADs and created this one for RAF Fighter Command.
No other ADs! So I do not have HI or OIL or FUEL targeted, the highscorers of this scenario.

Then I hit the Turn button.

Only once did the AD fly, downed some enemies, lost some planes, --> 186 VPs added to my tally.

Weird.

Then I hit Turn again. No sorties at all. ---> about 180 VPs to my tally.

I hit Turn again. No sorties ---> 152 VPs.

Another go. This time 2 bombing missions. Scored a handful of hits, lost a few planes. ---> Add another 137.

Etc. Etc.

In other words, pressing the Turn button is going to win me the game. Hurrah! But something tells me this isn't WAD.


_____________________________

"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader
Post #: 1
RE: Scoring Issue! Winning Weakest Link without flying ... - 1/12/2017 8:36:46 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		It's a known issue if I remember correctly.

The game was never originally designed to have air only scenarios. I wanted to create the air only scenarios for those wanting to hone air skills and also for those not so interested in ground combat - a Bombing the Reich homage. We did our best in creating a VP system that works but the VP balance is planes lost against damage. If you don't lose any planes then you score more, however you are effectively circumventing the aim of the scenario.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 2
RE: Scoring Issue! Winning Weakest Link without flying ... - 1/12/2017 8:47:15 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		But what damage is being done? No planes lost = 0 points deducted but no damage done is 0 points gained!

I now deleted this GND Attack AD, so nothing is flying on Allied side.

The Air Losses screen now somehow shows only 1 FW-190D being lost on Axis side, and 0 on Allied side.

Yet still it says Bombing VPs = 76

So where does that 76 come from? The multipliers are listed in the VP screen but nothing of that list was hit, of course. Nothing was bombed at all.


< Message edited by Skyhigh -- 1/12/2017 10:45:50 PM >

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 3
RE: Scoring Issue! Winning Weakest Link without flying ... - 1/12/2017 8:58:56 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		.clutter

< Message edited by Skyhigh -- 1/12/2017 10:45:30 PM >

(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 4
RE: Scoring Issue! Winning Weakest Link without flying ... - 1/12/2017 10:16:52 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		It's a bit sad that the NoPlay-score each turn is higher than the score I make when I actually send out raids...

Anyway below is the VP Graph for 9 turns in Weakest Link without setting any AD. So no airplanes of mine get airborne, so nothing gets bombed, nothing gets shot down.
It's clear that each turn the VPs get less by a seemingly 2nd order fashion.

Why is this? Clearly this is wrong. This raises some questions about VP scoring when you actually do send out airplanes. Is that scoring correct? What is going on here?




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Skyhigh -- 1/12/2017 11:50:07 PM >

(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 5
RE: Scoring Issue! Winning Weakest Link without flying ... - 1/12/2017 11:40:46 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		Oh wait...

I think I get it now!
As the German economy is already damaged at the start, you get points for that in the first logistic phase that you play. This is about 180 points. In my graph based on subsequent turns we see the VPs getting less: this is the German economy slowly being restored!
And unless you bomb the hell out of it, you will get less VPs.

But in that case, there is an offset in scoring... Isn't it possible to substract VPs every turn?
In principle the first time a score is calculated, this 186 for pre-Turn1 damage should be substracted from whatever you bomb and how many planes you lose. This is the true score what YOU do in Turn 1.

I think the goal should be to damage more than can be repaired, and that should be reflected in the scoring.

Then the Strategic Damage that is calculated after Turn 1 and what you start Turn 2 with should be substracted from whatever damage you make and planes you lose and what they repair during their Turn 2 logistic phase, and that is the true score of Turn 2 etc. etc.

So then to win the scenario you need to do more damage than they can repair, plus don't lose too much planes while you are at it.

But yeah, I checked the editor - it is not so easy to do that... However, you should be able to make a new Victory Metrics graph that reflects this, right? And for an air war, just replace the VP calculation top Right with the correct Airwar VP calculation.

< Message edited by Skyhigh -- 1/13/2017 12:03:41 AM >

(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 6
RE: Scoring Issue! Winning Weakest Link without flying ... - 1/13/2017 4:33:23 PM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4314
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline 		My fault I believe. I spent hours and hours getting the VP scoring right but completely missed that someone might think that the best way to win a wargame is pacifism.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 7
RE: Scoring Issue! Winning Weakest Link without flying ... - 1/13/2017 7:48:38 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		Well.

It's not right, really. It's not just being pacifist - let's take a late-scenario turn, like Turn 17. If you did your bombing best you have degraded German industry quite a bit.
And then suddenly: VERY POOR WEATHER! Nothing flies.

But lo and behold, you get a score of 565 VPs added to your total. It's weird, if you ask me.

But! I have some ideas to remedy this. I will let you know the upcoming days.

< Message edited by Skyhigh -- 1/13/2017 7:49:08 PM >

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 8
RE: Scoring Issue! Winning Weakest Link without flying ... - 1/13/2017 7:52:53 PM   
zakblood


Posts: 22687
Joined: 10/4/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

It's a known issue if I remember correctly.

The game was never originally designed to have air only scenarios. I wanted to create the air only scenarios for those wanting to hone air skills and also for those not so interested in ground combat - a Bombing the Reich homage. We did our best in creating a VP system that works but the VP balance is planes lost against damage. If you don't lose any planes then you score more, however you are effectively circumventing the aim of the scenario.


quote:

It's a known issue if I remember correctly.


correct as i remember it being brought up also, and will search now for the post

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 9
RE: Scoring Issue! Winning Weakest Link without flying ... - 1/14/2017 11:55:06 AM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		Guys, please see my revised scoring system at:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4216869&mpage=1&key=�

(in reply to zakblood)
Post #: 10
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