This is how i kill a S-400 system

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> The War Room >> This is how i kill a S-400 system

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This is how i kill a S-400 system - 1/14/2017 7:30:30 PM

Wasicun

Posts: 139
Joined: 11/10/2013
From: Verona, Italy
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This is my strategy against the terrific S-400 Triumf:

B1 bomber armed with JASSMs (i overange the enemy): it costs 40-50 missiles and you finnaly can wipe out the formidable enemy. I think that it's a very good result, becausa an S-400 costs like 500 millions $ while a JASSM is about 1 million.

Do you know what is the real USAF tactic to face the S-400 ?
I think that a conventional Offensive ECM + Anti Radar Missiles is too dangerous (like EA/18).

What do you think?
What is your way to achieve the victory?

Greetings

Post #: 1

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 1/14/2017 8:38:22 PM

Cik

Posts: 671
Joined: 10/5/2016
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the way to achieve victory is to throw lots of fast-moving SEAD/DEAD weapons at it. preferably missiles that aren't solely anti-radiation so it can't utilize shut-off tactics.

JASSM are probably the best, but AARGM, ITALD, HARM, SLAM-ER, polaris (lul) all probably work.

the other option of course is to just sail a few ships into cannon range and let 'em have it. it can't shoot done thousands of high-ex cannon rounds :^)

there's also other options. nice thing about airops is you always have the initiative. if the S-400 is the lynchpin of their air defenses, you can always attrit around it or bypass it by flying around it's rangebubble. not always possible but an option of you don't have the critical mass of heavy weapons to kill it.

when we get our WTOT function (please) you can also augment the above tactics by throwing a ton of tomahawks at it, just to clutter it's target list. it also probably doesn't have infinite missiles so if you repeatedly throw a bunch of TALD at it it might run out.

< Message edited by Cik -- 1/14/2017 8:41:25 PM >

(in reply to Wasicun)

Post #: 2

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 1/14/2017 8:47:25 PM

Kitchens Sink

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Joined: 5/4/2014
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I like the following:

1. A swarm of MALD-J OECM Drones fired from long range by B-52's (several of the MALD-J's should loiter outside of the Triumf firing range to mess with the S-400 radar, the rest should bore right in on it from diff directions).
2. Closely following the MALD-J's, a volley of JASSM-ER from one or two B-1's
3. A couple of SDB-armed F-22 Raptors coming in med-low behind the MALD-J and JASSM-ER (just in case).

I would wager that the USAF tactic to handle a S-400 includes use of the MALD-J. It's a powerful, inexpensive jammer drone that can be fired in large quantities by the B-52, and in reasonable quantities by other fighter/attack aircraft.

(in reply to Wasicun)

Post #: 3

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 1/15/2017 1:24:03 AM

Dysta

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Have anyone tried to defeat S-400 with only F-35, and without being shot?

Inspired by: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4217374

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RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 1/15/2017 12:47:46 PM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
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From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
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You can use JASSM's to successfully take out an S400 unit, but that's about it as it is not possible to knock out an S400 with your other free-fall weapons unsupported. You either get detected and engaged at around 32 miles by the Cheeseboard radar at plus 6000 feet, or you get detected and engaged while climbing from ground level to 10k feet in order to release your free-fall weapons successfully.. Either way, you are dead. So, no. A single F35 can not take on an S400 unsupported.

HOWEVER: When I team up seven F35's into a JAM/strike strike package (five F35 jammers at 230 miles and two f35 strikers at 12000 feet) I can successfully engage a S400 system with my internally loaded free fall weapons without being detected, but then my weapons get detected and destroyed before they can strike :S

So the answer is no, you can not take on a S400 with the current short range internally loaded free fall weapons on the F35.

W.

< Message edited by wild_Willie2 -- 1/15/2017 1:09:47 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 2/5/2017 1:27:22 PM

poaw

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From: Houston, Texas
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If you can use terrain masking to cover your approach then a single F-35 with 4x mk83s will usually destroy an S-400 and survive.

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 6

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 2/5/2017 6:07:04 PM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
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From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
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If the S400 is indeed situated next to a canyon and has no close in defenses, you could indeed theoretically approach it below ground level and take it out with iron bombs ... One had to be extremely stupid to situate such a system there, but is is indeed theoretically possible (even an F-16 can take it out this way btw...).

w.

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In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

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Post #: 7

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 2/12/2017 7:46:06 PM

magi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: poaw

If you can use terrain masking to cover your approach then a single F-35 with 4x mk83s will usually destroy an S-400 and survive.

Eastern Europe and the Chinese coast is pretty darn flat� So good luck with that in those kind of places�

(in reply to poaw)

Post #: 8

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 2/14/2017 12:32:35 AM

SeaQueen

Posts: 1451
Joined: 4/14/2007
From: Washington D.C.
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I think there's many ways to skin the cat. Nobody really cares about the SAM systems by themselves. They're dangerous. Who could be bothered with that? I don't want to die. The real prize is what they're protecting (e.g. strategic targets, concentrations of ground forces, naval/amphibious forces, C3 nodes, logistics hubs). Those targets might be centers of gravity in the Von Clausewitz sense. You are always attacking/jamming/suppressing SAMs in order to get at something else. Because of that, the course of action one might choose to pursue defeating a given SAM system depends on what you think is necessary to get close enough to attack a given center of gravity. In some cases, a combination of jamming or stealth is all that's necessary. You might not decide to attack any SAMs. In others, attacks with cruise missiles might be necessary. In others, ARMs are the way to go. It's important to recognize, however, that a given SAM system is seldom employed by itself but rather layered up. Maybe the center of gravity I want to attack is sufficiently far away from an S-400 that I can rely on my aircraft's stealth, or decoys to defeat it. Maybe the next target is closer to the same system, so I might choose to destroy it using some sort of standoff weapon. Maybe I haven't pin-pointed the S-400 site because they've been successful in moving quickly between well hidden sites then suddenly turning on their radars so I employ escort jamming and ARMs.

The important thing is that depending on the situation, one might employ many different approaches. Flexibility is the key. No one solution fits all cases.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wasicun

This is my strategy against the terrific S-400 Triumf:

B1 bomber armed with JASSMs (i overange the enemy): it costs 40-50 missiles and you finnaly can wipe out the formidable enemy. I think that it's a very good result, becausa an S-400 costs like 500 millions $ while a JASSM is about 1 million.

Do you know what is the real USAF tactic to face the S-400 ?
I think that a conventional Offensive ECM + Anti Radar Missiles is too dangerous (like EA/18).

What do you think?
What is your way to achieve the victory?

Greetings

(in reply to Wasicun)

Post #: 9

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 5/1/2017 7:23:59 AM

Dan109

Posts: 175
Joined: 4/27/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

You can use JASSM's to successfully take out an S400 unit, but that's about it as it is not possible to knock out an S400 with your other free-fall weapons unsupported. You either get detected and engaged at around 32 miles by the Cheeseboard radar at plus 6000 feet, or you get detected and engaged while climbing from ground level to 10k feet in order to release your free-fall weapons successfully.. Either way, you are dead. So, no. A single F35 can not take on an S400 unsupported.

HOWEVER: When I team up seven F35's into a JAM/strike strike package (five F35 jammers at 230 miles and two f35 strikers at 12000 feet) I can successfully engage a S400 system with my internally loaded free fall weapons without being detected, but then my weapons get detected and destroyed before they can strike :S

So the answer is no, you can not take on a S400 with the current short range internally loaded free fall weapons on the F35.

W.

What about JDAM-ER? 43nm range. Also maybe even drop a MALD-J or two, in order to help protect the ordinance.

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 10

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 5/1/2017 5:41:50 PM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
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From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
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It's not about the range at which you drop the ordinance, its about the fact that the S400 will kill anything detected over its radar horizon (including MALD decoys).

W.

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In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

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Post #: 11

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 5/1/2017 8:31:25 PM

DWReese

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From: Miami, Florida
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One of the things about MALDs is they are cheap, and the S-400 missiles are not. The other thing is that the S-400 missiles are not an endless supply, either. A whole bunch of MALDs could bleed the S-400 dry which accomplishes the same goal.

Doug

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 12

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 5/2/2017 3:33:31 PM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
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That is correct, you can bleed an S400 dry by firing lang range weapons or decoys at it so it has to expends all missiles in self deference. Even BOL launched HARMS from 200 miles away will force it to fire weapons in self defense even if the HARM has no way of ever reaching it.

W.

< Message edited by wild_Willie2 -- 5/2/2017 3:45:11 PM >

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In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

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Post #: 13

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 5/2/2017 5:15:22 PM

mikmykWS

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Joined: 3/22/2005
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200nm away? Could you post a save showing that?

Mike

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Post #: 14

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 5/2/2017 6:32:41 PM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
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There you go, one save game of Harms BOL fired from 200 miles at a S400 and it fires a full defensive spread against them.

Attachment (1)

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In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

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Post #: 15

RE: This is how i kill a S-400 system - 5/2/2017 10:33:53 PM

mikmykWS

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Joined: 3/22/2005
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Thanks will have the guys take a look.

Mike

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Post #: 16