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RE: April 1944 - 1/23/2017 12:06:36 AM

pwarner328

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I was thinking Hood

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RE: April 1944 - 1/23/2017 1:46:47 AM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

quote:

Dan is indeed very Grant like in his methods. Very willing to accept losses to achieve a greater gain. But in the end the results justify the means.

Depends on what results are the objective. If it's to push back the Japanese conquests, that happens eventually with just about any decently compentent Allied player and a modicum of luck. (The fact that the Allies have suffered major troop losses in Sumatra and Celebes and yet still have enough for an offensive in the Phillipines speaks for itself.) If it's to pile up victory points (and this is, after all, a game), then John has clearly outplayed Dan. If it's to make for an interesting and unusual game, then Dan has done brilliantly (half a million hits!)

Well, you may have a point. I don't think the American public could swallow the expenditure of men such as Dan has done. But it is the game not the simulation that we are talking about. There is little to simulate here in that it is a pure fantasy mod that gives the Japanese a lot more to play with. When you consider that, I think Dan is doing the superior job. Not to say John is no slouch here. Dan admits that Sumatra was a good idea executed with poor foresight as he underestimated the power of the Japanese air force in this mod. None the less, he accepted the defeat and moved on and has pretty much controlled the pace since. That boy is good....

John I feel your pain. I think the key to winning for the Allies is to focus on the Japanese DD force. Once it is cut down to size, the rest of the surface fleet becomes very easy to defeat. Even with the bonuses that your mod gives the math eventually catches up with Japan.

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RE: April 1944 - 1/23/2017 12:10:12 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

SIX were sunk by Air.

Sunk outright or finished off? I have a devil of a time hitting DD's with planes.

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RE: April 1944 - 1/23/2017 2:02:07 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

SIX were sunk by Air.
Sunk outright or finished off? I have a devil of a time hitting DD's with planes.

Well, once they are wounded in a previous action I find that they become very vulnerable. Even Allied torpedoes seem to find them a lot easier.

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RE: April 1944 - 1/23/2017 2:20:39 PM

John 3rd

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Will do an official Post later going through the details. Just got called in to work for a few hours on my day off. Sigh...

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RE: April 1944 - 1/23/2017 4:04:08 PM

adarbrauner

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John, sincerely I thought something much much worst. Waiting to see your spirits rised again, just do it FAST because we need to start the campaign to force CR out of Philippines.

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RE: April 1944 - 1/23/2017 10:00:54 PM

John 3rd

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My day went HE** and have been stock at the store working. It happens. Doubt if I will get home until its late. Not often I have employee issues so I guess we can suck it up and SMILE!

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RE: April 1944 - 1/24/2017 11:04:11 AM

adarbrauner

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I think that the bombardment of Legaspi or of other sensitive and highly protected locations should be delegated to Night Air Strikes only moment being.

Attacks to disrupt local shipping may instead be delegated to more expendable and nimble vehicles, such as PTs.

I think also that the occasion for a quick resolution of the invasion has gone, apart probably for counter invasion of the smaller Philippine Islands supporting the main snake head at Legaspi. This means a long campaign aimed to keep as much allied units in Luzon, where they are, pinned, requiring a gigantic effort by CR to logistically support them, support that we are aimed to disrupt, with the purpose to force CR to retreat his invasion forces at a certain point.

and still, counter invasions of weakier garrisoned islands is VITAL in my opinion to deprive CR of air bases (this should be done by night). In any case, equal or superior land forces than those estimated already landed at Luzon are required to stop and frustrate ANY further advance by CR, + others for counter invasions/counterstrikes and/or reserves.

Furtherly, i'd explore the idea to probe the Big Sea Snake or Dragon extending from New Guinea and southernly more, up to Legaspi, with cautious pokes even by capitol ships or fleets. This should induce CR to dilute his escorting fleet all over the long track, easing the occasion to concentrate our forces for a bigger air-naval strike may the occasion arise.

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RE: April 1944 - 1/24/2017 12:55:37 PM

Itdepends

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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

I think also that the occasion for a quick resolution of the invasion has gone, apart probably for counter invasion of the smaller Philippine Islands supporting the main snake head at Legaspi. This means a long campaign aimed to keep as much allied units in Luzon, where they are, pinned, requiring a gigantic effort by CR to logistically support them, support that we are aimed to disrupt, with the purpose to force CR to retreat his invasion forces at a certain point.

and still, counter invasions of weakier garrisoned islands is VITAL in my opinion to deprive CR of air bases (this should be done by night)

It's the allies n 1944, logistical support is not something they will struggle with unless you can control the SLOC.

Luzon is a great place for the allies to fight, they can reinforce easily at bases they control and then move forces up to the front line without needing to delay as they prep for new targets. Massed allied late armour in particular will have a field day. Delaying the taking of Manila is about the best that can be done to dny the use of the shipyard as long as possible.

As far as invading bases only at night, how do you propose to do that? I assume you mean to protect shipping which means having the landing ships out of range of air attack but close enought to close to the target and fully unload all in the one night phase. Have you successfully demonstrated this against an AI or human opponent?

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RE: April 1944 - 1/24/2017 1:23:02 PM

John 3rd

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Nice commentary guys.

My Store Opener is sick again and just called for me to come in. My day is now shot. Will try to get a turn to Dan this afternoon. Nature of the beast when it comes to Managing...

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RE: April 1944 - 1/24/2017 2:32:06 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

I think that the bombardment of Legaspi or of other sensitive and highly protected locations should be delegated to Night Air Strikes only moment being.

Attacks to disrupt local shipping may instead be delegated to more expendable and nimble vehicles, such as PTs.

I think also that the occasion for a quick resolution of the invasion has gone, apart probably for counter invasion of the smaller Philippine Islands supporting the main snake head at Legaspi. This means a long campaign aimed to keep as much allied units in Luzon, where they are, pinned, requiring a gigantic effort by CR to logistically support them, support that we are aimed to disrupt, with the purpose to force CR to retreat his invasion forces at a certain point.

and still, counter invasions of weakier garrisoned islands is VITAL in my opinion to deprive CR of air bases (this should be done by night). In any case, equal or superior land forces than those estimated already landed at Luzon are required to stop and frustrate ANY further advance by CR, + others for counter invasions/counterstrikes and/or reserves.

Furtherly, i'd explore the idea to probe the Big Sea Snake or Dragon extending from New Guinea and southernly more, up to Legaspi, with cautious pokes even by capitol ships or fleets. This should induce CR to dilute his escorting fleet all over the long track, easing the occasion to concentrate our forces for a bigger air-naval strike may the occasion arise.

Ah. So you want to:

1. Attack the myriad smaller PI bases (preferably at night) with landing forces sufficient to capture them.

2. Attack the "head" at Legaspi with a cautious 'probe' of capitol ships or fleets?

3. Get sufficient LCUs to Luzon sufficient to reverse the Allied gains?

4. Concentrate our forces for a bigger air-naval strike (may the occasion arise)?

That's not asking too much, is it?

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RE: April 1944 - 1/24/2017 2:33:28 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
My day is now shot. Will try to get a turn to Dan this afternoon. Nature of the beast when it comes to Managing...

Sorry man. My parents owned a restaurant for 10+ years, so I've heard many tales of woe along those lines. Being your own boss kind of sucks.

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RE: April 1944 - 1/24/2017 3:36:14 PM

adarbrauner

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1) No. No attack against the Beach head in Luzon, it is too big already, just not to allow it to advance in any way, and pose a concrete real threat to it. By deploying an equal if not superior number of AV.

2) Myriad of small Islands: they are not so much, and it could be done one after the other possibly; Yes, it came time to strip other locations from their garrisons, yes including Sumatra and Taiwan ( No China);

4th point: yes, definitely.

Rversal of allied land gains won't be achieved so quickly at this stage. This is going to be a long campaign, of wearing down his logistic supply, just need to be started the earliest.

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RE: April 1944 - 1/24/2017 4:55:18 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

1) No. No attack against the Beach head in Luzon, it is too big already, just not to allow it to advance in any way, and pose a concrete real threat to it. By deploying an equal if not superior number of AV.

2) Myriad of small Islands: they are not so much, and it could be done one after the other possibly; Yes, it came time to strip other locations from their garrisons, yes including Sumatra and Taiwan ( No China);

4th point: yes, definitely.

Rversal of allied land gains won't be achieved so quickly at this stage. This is going to be a long campaign, of wearing down his logistic supply, just need to be started the earliest.

You and I have different opinions, it's clear.

John must limit the incursion to Luzon or it's over. By "it", I mean "the war effort". Simple as that.

I've already stated my bit about having twenty five different first or top priorities in one's planning as being equivalent to having zero top priorities in one's planning. If one is unable to identify where the greatest needs lie, then they tend to vacillate and degenerate into spasmodic and reactionary acts that are not a cogent defense. "He who defends everything defends nothing".

There are too many mutually exclusive options in what you stated above. My 'rolley eye' emoticon was meant to express that, but probably failed to get the point across. So I'll say it clearly here: you cannot accomplish all of the things that you are spraying onto the board. If you want to gather your troops on Formosa for a counterattack, then you're-by definition-NOT stripping your troops (garrison) from Formosa for a counterattack. Or were you proposing using the garrison troops per se as a counterattack force and I misunderstood you?

You cannot both use large amphibious operations at Ambon or Sorong or the 'head of the snake' and also have simultaneously available large amphibious forces to reinforce Luzon and stem the Allied advance there AND recapture some of the island airfields in the central Phillipines. You cannot do it all. You especially can't focus a mass of fire in seven different areas simultaneously.

John-pick your battle. Make sure it's the most important one. Focus your attention and avoid looking at the sparkling lights of minor naval victories over LCTs and LCIs and tiny bases 1000 miles away from the main event.

You know as well as I do that if Dan gets on Luzon with force, every base on that island will be maxed out with an airfield of 7-9. You will have 4EBs eating your breakfast, lunch and dinner on the South China Sea, the Philippine Sea, Formosa, Okinawa and the islands leading to Kyushu. Sumatra is an afterthought now. So's Borneo, the Celebes and maybe even Java. It's Luzon-do or die.

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RE: April 1944 - 1/24/2017 5:34:40 PM

pws1225

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quote:

It's Luzon-do or die.

Yep. +1

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RE: April 1944 - 1/24/2017 6:38:51 PM

adarbrauner

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To be clear: 5-6 Division equivalent on Luzon, confronting the allied army.

Other sufficient LCUs to counterinvade smaller islands IN PHILIPPINES only.

+ naval guerrila all along the dragon-snake trailing from Guinea to Philippines,always waving from security distance the thick stick of Combined Fleet.

Unfortunately, my impression is that if CR's logistic flow isn't even partially disrupted, we shouldn't expect to successflly overcome him attacking his beachead. This means time, with all of its consequences. Mean while, CR has control over 2 locations only on Luzon to build over them air bases. Again, given the strenght he managed to land, I don't think he could be dislodged so quickly and directly. I'm thinking to force him to retreat, if John, again, manages to sabotage his resupply AND at same time places a credible land counterforce.

The gradual overtaking of the supporting islands around Legaspi, AND the strong garrisoning of Panay, Cebu etc to prevent their invason that I think is imminent in CR's intentions, is essential exactly for the reason you stated: "if Dan gets on Luzon [EDIT: and the surroundings] with force, every base on that island will be maxed out with an airfield of 7-9."
It is true that this requires many LCUs that have to taken from elsewhere.
For this operations, the shipping track to targets must be very short and finished within one night to avoid air interdiction. For example, from Panay Island as starting point to Masbate as target.

I understand, that even if John manages to retake by surprise one island, for example "Masbate", the invading party may find itself stuck there, by Allied air and naval superiority (unless air or naval night gradual evacuation), but I think this is a risk worth to be taken.

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 1/24/2017 7:19:33 PM >

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RE: April 1944 - 1/24/2017 7:05:48 PM

Chickenboy

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John,

It would be worth a look at the specific Allied forces that came ashore in the myriad Phillipines landings. You showed us there were 40,000+ troops on Legaspi (now Naga). What about all the other islands-whether contested or not? Would any of these lend themselves to counterinvasions 'on a shoestring'?

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RE: April 1944 - 1/24/2017 10:50:18 PM

John 3rd

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Am home and seriously dragging.

I have notes on the landing forces and can provide them in a post.

My crippling limitation is lack of DDs. Simple as that. I've got the second line DDs building and starting to come in but they are way too late and not near enough.

Going to try and run a turn.

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RE: April 1944 - 1/24/2017 10:51:11 PM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
My day is now shot. Will try to get a turn to Dan this afternoon. Nature of the beast when it comes to Managing...

Sorry man. My parents owned a restaurant for 10+ years, so I've heard many tales of woe along those lines. Being your own boss kind of sucks.

I really do enjoy it but there is absolutely no break from work. A phone call can and does occur at any time. Thanks for the thought though!

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RE: April 1944 - 1/24/2017 11:22:38 PM

John 3rd

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Looked at my notes when I decided to not even try to run a turn. Too tired and cannot do a turn half-assed at this point.

Major Units in the Philippines: 43rd ID, 6th ID, 2nd Marine Div, 38th ID, 9th Aust ID, 6th Aust ID, and 11th East African ID.

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RE: April 1944 - 1/25/2017 2:42:47 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Looked at my notes when I decided to not even try to run a turn. Too tired and cannot do a turn half-assed at this point.

Major Units in the Philippines: 43rd ID, 6th ID, 2nd Marine Div, 38th ID, 9th Aust ID, 6th Aust ID, and 11th East African ID.

John-are these all on Luzon or elsewhere? What is their distribution elsewhere in the PI (e.g., 11th East African ID on Macloban)?

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RE: April 1944 - 1/25/2017 2:47:39 PM

Chickenboy

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Do you have house rules regarding PT TF formation or size? If not, I'd expect...oh...about 1,000 PT TFs in the central PI any day now. Even a few handfuls of 5x PT TFs will slow down any interdiction efforts on your part.

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RE: April 1944 - 1/25/2017 4:37:11 PM

John 3rd

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Looked at my notes when I decided to not even try to run a turn. Too tired and cannot do a turn half-assed at this point.

Major Units in the Philippines: 43rd ID, 6th ID, 2nd Marine Div, 38th ID, 9th Aust ID, 6th Aust ID, and 11th East African ID.

John-are these all on Luzon or elsewhere? What is their distribution elsewhere in the PI (e.g., 11th East African ID on Macloban)?

To my knowledge all but one are on Luzon. The 11th East Africa landed at Talud and has been picked up.

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RE: April 1944 - 1/25/2017 4:37:30 PM

John 3rd

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MIRACLE: Just sent Dan a turn.

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Post #: 3024

RE: April 1944 - 1/25/2017 4:43:34 PM

John 3rd

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April 12, 1944

I-184
The Japanese sub arm has been getting pasted recently but still has the ability to reach out and touch someone. In preparation for an upcoming operation, I-184 gets orders to check out the Allied base at Akyab. Are there mines? PTs?

The sub moves into the base's port and sinks TWO single ship convoys. First AKL Nam Young is sunk with a TT and 3 Sh and then AK Fusto Arosemena gets 2 TT and 3 Shells.

Nothing else left in the base hex so no PTs. Didn't hit a mine either. This is good...

Orders come down to now do the same thing at Akyab...

ELSEWHERE
Having rested for near 10 days at Sabang, orders arrive for 3 CV, 3 CVL, 2 BB, 1 BC, 3 CL, and 12 DDs to raise anchor and form into three TFs. The CVs are one, 2 old CLs form the second, and the Battlewagons are the third. They are ordered to move to point NW of Port Blair.

Attachment (1)

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RE: April 1944 - 1/25/2017 5:17:42 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Looked at my notes when I decided to not even try to run a turn. Too tired and cannot do a turn half-assed at this point.

Major Units in the Philippines: 43rd ID, 6th ID, 2nd Marine Div, 38th ID, 9th Aust ID, 6th Aust ID, and 11th East African ID.

John-are these all on Luzon or elsewhere? What is their distribution elsewhere in the PI (e.g., 11th East African ID on Macloban)?

To my knowledge all but one are on Luzon. The 11th East Africa landed at Talud and has been picked up.

OK. Thanks for clarifying. What are the other Allied units in possession of the outlying Phillipine islands then? If there are none, and he's dumped everything onto Luzon, that may make sense to recapture on the cheap. Have you initiated recon of the LCUs?

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RE: April 1944 - 1/25/2017 10:33:42 PM

John 3rd

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I am bringing in more and more recon to look. Mindanao and Luzon are awash in Air Flotillas and Base Forces so I have lots of support. There are just single units at any of the bases he isn't building at. I'll do a screenshot with unit intel later tonight.

We are celebrating my eldest's 13th B-Day tonight. I have a teenager. SCARY! Seemed like I was just holding him, minutes old, yesterday...

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RE: April 1944 - 1/26/2017 2:26:25 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I am bringing in more and more recon to look. Mindanao and Luzon are awash in Air Flotillas and Base Forces so I have lots of support. There are just single units at any of the bases he isn't building at. I'll do a screenshot with unit intel later tonight.

We are celebrating my eldest's 13th B-Day tonight. I have a teenager. SCARY! Seemed like I was just holding him, minutes old, yesterday...

You poor bastard. I won't have a teenager until...gulp...May. I'm in the same boat as you, John. Sigh...

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Post #: 3028

RE: April 1944 - 1/26/2017 2:49:07 AM

BillBrown

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Teenage daughters are not so bad. Just lock them in the basement for the next 10 years.

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RE: April 1944 - 1/26/2017 3:37:58 AM

John 3rd

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You know...it isn't often that you have a 'perfect' family night or day but we came pretty close this evening. Gave the B-Day boy a cance to pick his own place for dinner and so we went to a Hibachi Steak House and then went to a local ice cream place that folds in the yummy other stuff with the ice cream. Walrus of Fort Collins is a MAGNIFICENT place to get ice cream. It is 30 years old and pre-dates all those knock-offs (Cold Stone) of today.

The family laughed, ate well, swapped stories, and had a very nice, pleasant evening. Am pretty content right now. Doesn't happen often but did tonight.

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RE: April 1944