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RE: OT: Use of Capture Equipment - 1/28/2017 11:11:07 AM   
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comte
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Posts: 2358
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From: Be'eri, Hadarom, Israel
Status: offline 		Further OT: How big was the Italian merchant marine? I tried looking for information on this recently and came up empty. How big were the convoy's that brought supplies to North Africa?


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Post #: 61
RE: OT: Use of Capture Equipment - 1/28/2017 11:51:52 AM   
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warspite1
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aces8

Further OT: How big was the Italian merchant marine? I tried looking for information on this recently and came up empty. How big were the convoy's that brought supplies to North Africa?

warspite1

I'll see what I can find in terms of nos. I know that a large percentage was lost on the declaration of war as Mussolini - with usual foresight - hadn't bothered to get ships back from overseas

The convoys varied in size depending on what was being sent over and so in some cases were liners while at one point for example the RM reverted to sending fuel they desperately needed on board destroyers. The RN found the destroyers and, as can be imagined, the result was not pretty....

EDIT: That was quicker than expected According to Rohwer (a good source) the Italian merchant marine was circa 3.4 tons, and 1.2m was lost on 10 June 1940......

EDIT 2:

Here is an excellent site for further info:

http://www.regiamarina.net/detail_text_with_list.asp?nid=53&lid=1&cid=1

This supports O'Hara's view re total tonnage that was delivered to North Africa - and also confirms the devastation suffered by individual convoys when found - Duisburg and Tarigo - without massively impacting overall numbers.

It could be argued that the threat to the convoys was just as important as the actual result. Many convoys (particularly around the time of Crusader I believe) were escorted by pretty much the entire fleet - with all that meant in terms of precious oil usage....

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/28/2017 12:26:28 PM >

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Post #: 62
RE: OT: Use of Capture Equipment - 1/28/2017 12:19:32 PM   
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JohnDillworth
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Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		KV-2 was almost useless as a tank and production was discontinued. Impervious to almost anything, yes, but way to heavy and slow. More a pillbox than anything else. IT was so heavy the turret could only turn when the tank was on level ground. not good

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Post #: 63
RE: OT: Use of Capture Equipment - 1/29/2017 3:06:28 AM   
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pcellsworth
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Posts: 47
Joined: 4/28/2013
Status: offline 		The Japanese Army captured some P-40s and later operated a number in Burma. The Japanese appear to have had as many as 10 flyable P-40Es. For a brief period in 1943, a few of them were actually used operationally by 2 Hiko Chutai, 50 Hiko Sentai (2nd Air Squadron, 50th Air Regiment) in the defense of Rangoon. Testimony of this is given by Yasuhiko Kuroe, a member of the 64 Hiko Sentai. In his memoirs, he says one Japanese-operated P-40 was shot down in error by a friendly Mitsubishi Ki-21 "Sally" over Rangoon.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 64
RE: OT: Use of Capture Equipment - 1/30/2017 7:27:27 PM   
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warspite1
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Posts: 41353
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From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aces8

Further OT: How big was the Italian merchant marine? I tried looking for information on this recently and came up empty. How big were the convoy's that brought supplies to North Africa?

warspite1

I'll see what I can find in terms of nos. I know that a large percentage was lost on the declaration of war as Mussolini - with usual foresight - hadn't bothered to get ships back from overseas

The convoys varied in size depending on what was being sent over and so in some cases were liners while at one point for example the RM reverted to sending fuel they desperately needed on board destroyers. The RN found the destroyers and, as can be imagined, the result was not pretty....

EDIT: That was quicker than expected According to Rohwer (a good source) the Italian merchant marine was circa 3.4 tons, and 1.2m was lost on 10 June 1940......

EDIT 2:

Here is an excellent site for further info:

http://www.regiamarina.net/detail_text_with_list.asp?nid=53&lid=1&cid=1

This supports O'Hara's view re total tonnage that was delivered to North Africa - and also confirms the devastation suffered by individual convoys when found - Duisburg and Tarigo - without massively impacting overall numbers.

It could be argued that the threat to the convoys was just as important as the actual result. Many convoys (particularly around the time of Crusader I believe) were escorted by pretty much the entire fleet - with all that meant in terms of precious oil usage....
warspite1

You're welcome - don't mention it

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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 65
RE: OT: Use of Capture Equipment - 1/30/2017 10:08:18 PM   
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John 3rd
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Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I could REALLY use a captured equipment option. With an entire Allied Field Army surrendering in Sumatra in 1943 and then a Allied Corps in 1944, I am sure I could field enough modern Allied Tanks and Artillery to have some real fun!


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(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 66
RE: OT: Use of Capture Equipment - 2/1/2017 12:29:31 PM   
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GI Jive
Matrix Trooper



Posts: 171
Joined: 10/30/2005
Status: offline 		Here is a British Motorized Support device in use by the Japanese.






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 67
RE: OT: Use of Capture Equipment - 2/1/2017 12:44:54 PM   
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mind_messing
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Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		Captured equipment is an interesting idea, but it is more suited to the war in Europe, where captured equipment from both France and Russia ended up playing a significant role in the Whermacht's lineup.

For AE, it would be a nice abstraction if the surrender of units added a limited amount of armaments to the Japanese pools, to reflect weapons being repurposed.

For vehicles, it doesn't make much sense for Allied tanks to transform in to Japanese tanks, so perhaps having them come back as motorized support?

In an ideal world (AE 2?), it would be nice if the game tracked captured tanks. Combined with some sort of unit upgrade or creation system to use them, that would cover it.

Of course, that opens the possibility of a successful Japanese player forming tank regiments of Shermans to over-run India, which didn't happen.

At the end of the day, it's a minor thing on a small scale. I tell myself its abstracted in motorized support; it helps me sleep at night.

(in reply to comte)
Post #: 68
RE: OT: Use of Capture Equipment - 2/1/2017 8:53:56 PM   
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rustysi
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Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
quote:

but it is more suited to the war in Europe, where captured equipment from both France and Russia ended up playing a significant role in the Whermacht's lineup.


Don't discount all those t-38's from Czechoslovakia.

quote:

I tell myself its abstracted in motorized support; it helps me sleep at night.




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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 69
RE: OT: Use of Capture Equipment - 2/3/2017 7:11:59 AM   
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Barb
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Posts: 2503
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Bratislava, Slovakia
Status: offline 		I would be more interested in having all those AT-guns and artillery guns captured early to be used to equip some Japanese Divisions... :D

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Post #: 70
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