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RE: On the Fence - 1/28/2017 8:15:12 AM   
n0kn0k

 

Posts: 564
Joined: 6/23/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: oxford_guy

if the devs (and community) continue to support the game.


That's not an "if" i'm sure. Looking at the support for the past 10 years we'll be fine.

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)
Post #: 31
RE: On the Fence - 1/28/2017 9:01:03 AM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 1041
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: n0kn0k

quote:

ORIGINAL: oxford_guy

if the devs (and community) continue to support the game.


That's not an "if" i'm sure. Looking at the support for the past 10 years we'll be fine.


Great, glad to hear it!

(in reply to n0kn0k)
Post #: 32
RE: On the Fence - 1/28/2017 12:30:56 PM   
Ironclad

 

Posts: 1924
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I didn't think it was a dig, I just thought that describing CEaW as 'finely-tuned' was a bit off. CEaW has some features I would have liked to see in SC3 [Oil, Manpower, Convoy System], but SC3 has more features that are not in CEaW [more than two attacks on a unit, movement and combat, EDITOR!!]. Add in that CEaW is multi-player only, and support is nil, and I give it a big fat zero on the personal expense scale. [To be slightly fair, CEaW was still being developed as of my last contact in May 2016, but they are pretty close minded and stubborn, and are only interested in multi-player].


For many years I was a keen supporter of CEAW-Grand Strategy because I loved the game and thought it was the best non-mega WW2 grand strategy game around for multiplayer. I have now switched to SC3 because of its great qualities and because CEAW-GS screen resolution is frozen in time and for copyright reasons cannnot be updated so is less attractive for me these days.

Its fair to point out that the Grand Strategy expansion that converted a good game into a great one is entirely the work of unpaid enthusiasts who have done a fantastic job for the player community. Matrix has continued to support their efforts to its credit and everytime CEAW-GS is updated, always with a mass of improvements, the update is free (as has the GS expansion been from the start) to all who paid for the original version of the game. The expansion has always been produced primarily for multiplayer use and although it can provide a decent game in single player its inevitable that the latter will not have the same attraction given that the AI has never received an equivalent update.

< Message edited by Ironclad -- 1/28/2017 12:56:05 PM >

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 33
RE: On the Fence - 1/28/2017 2:12:25 PM   
colberki

 

Posts: 201
Joined: 6/16/2007
Status: offline 		CEAW is great game. The best for multi player. I have supported SC series, in part for appreciation of Matrix supporting our CEAW community.

(in reply to Ironclad)
Post #: 34
RE: On the Fence - 1/28/2017 5:36:38 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 1041
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ironclad

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I didn't think it was a dig, I just thought that describing CEaW as 'finely-tuned' was a bit off. CEaW has some features I would have liked to see in SC3 [Oil, Manpower, Convoy System], but SC3 has more features that are not in CEaW [more than two attacks on a unit, movement and combat, EDITOR!!]. Add in that CEaW is multi-player only, and support is nil, and I give it a big fat zero on the personal expense scale. [To be slightly fair, CEaW was still being developed as of my last contact in May 2016, but they are pretty close minded and stubborn, and are only interested in multi-player].


For many years I was a keen supporter of CEAW-Grand Strategy because I loved the game and thought it was the best non-mega WW2 grand strategy game around for multiplayer. I have now switched to SC3 because of its great qualities and because CEAW-GS screen resolution is frozen in time and for copyright reasons cannnot be updated so is less attractive for me these days.


I haven't played CEAW-GS for at least 18 months, as got distracted by EU4, but had some great multiplayer games of CEAW, I've been tempted to get back into it for MP play, following the 4.0 GS release, but am having problems getting it working properly on my external monitor (I use a laptop computer, but prefer a larger screen for gaming), and the limited resolution of the game is quite tiresome. The gameplay (of 3.1 GS anyway, but I presume 4.0 is even better) was great, though. SC3 does some things better (especially supply, and of course the AI and graphics), though I preferred the naval system in CEAW, especially how it handles submarines, and found the scale (less hexes) a bit more manageable. Also little things, like being able to rotate units in an entrenched hex without loosing ALL entrenchment, which you can't do in SC3 currently, which is a bit silly.

I suspect, though, that SC3 will be my go-to WW2 grand strategy game going forward, though, especially if it's going to improve after a few patches.



(in reply to Ironclad)
Post #: 35
RE: On the Fence - 1/29/2017 2:45:42 AM   
colberki

 

Posts: 201
Joined: 6/16/2007
Status: offline 		Adding Oil, Manpower and a Convoy system to SC would be great.

Meanwhile I continue playing SC3 and CEAW.

< Message edited by colberki -- 1/29/2017 3:02:51 AM >

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)
Post #: 36
RE: On the Fence - 1/29/2017 7:24:20 AM   
Meteor2


Posts: 429
Joined: 7/20/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		DC:B is a very good game, but not comparable.
Scale and approach is totally different, but I recommend both games.
DC:B includes unique elements, which takes it to another level.
Have a closer look at the forum over there!

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 37
RE: On the Fence - 1/29/2017 10:50:57 AM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 1041
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: colberki

Adding Oil, Manpower and a Convoy system to SC would be great.

Meanwhile I continue playing SC3 and CEAW.


Whilst I like the CEAW convoy system, I don't think it's essential, but the naval side of things could do with some improvement, especially how subs are handled, currently they don't really behave like subs should e.g. they can't ambush units whilst submerged (except DDs!) Oil and Manpower would be nice and would make it much more realistic for the axis

(in reply to colberki)
Post #: 38
RE: On the Fence - 1/29/2017 12:28:20 PM   
Dmondragon75

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 1/4/2016
Status: offline 		Oh sry mate, I wasnt reffering to anyone in particular. Just sharing my thoughts that by paying full price for product, we help product to be improved in the future by supporting good ideas.
I must admitt, I also luv buying games which are on discounts, I m only human after all :)

(in reply to nickaepi)
Post #: 39
RE: On the Fence - 1/29/2017 3:28:32 PM   
Toby42


Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: colberki

Adding Oil, Manpower and a Convoy system to SC would be great.

Meanwhile I continue playing SC3 and CEAW.


If you make the game more complicated you will lose players? I think that manpower is handled by having "Hard" builds as an option.

_____________________________

Tony

(in reply to colberki)
Post #: 40
RE: On the Fence - 1/29/2017 4:35:07 PM   
Ironclad

 

Posts: 1924
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Treale


quote:

ORIGINAL: colberki

Adding Oil, Manpower and a Convoy system to SC would be great.

Meanwhile I continue playing SC3 and CEAW.


If you make the game more complicated you will lose players? I think that manpower is handled by having "Hard" builds as an option.


The subtle thing about manpower in CEAW-GS is that it relates to both builds and reinforcements and when it reaches key thresholds in a nation's overall manpower eg below 75% or 50% it reduces combat effectiveness. So having those thresholds in mind you have to balance how much manpower goes as reinforcements and how much to new units despite having more than enough production builds available and the MPP equivalent points to create them. Also highly techical units such as aircraft or armoured require less manpower than infantry units whilst being more expensive in build or reinforcement points so that's another consideration to weigh up.

(in reply to Toby42)
Post #: 41
RE: On the Fence - 1/29/2017 5:09:38 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dmondragon75

I assume my post will be misunderstood, but...
In order to have quality games as SC3, why are ppl so worried if game costs 10/20 dollars more or less. FFS You will pay 20 mins with the hooker in red Amst Red District 70 USD. Gamers are buying a product they ll probably enjoy for years and also helping programmers and developers to put even better games in the future. Gaming community is 90% like this, always moaning about price of the game. For example, lots of strategy lovers are moaning about costs of Grigsby War in the east/west price. I m just wondering do ppl think about time and work invested in this game by Mr. Gary and the fact they have very accurate strategic simulation? I m buying lots of games on Steam which I don't play, just to show appreciation for the ppl with good ideas and give them opportunity to put even better games on the market, fact that they live from the money they make from gaming shouldn't be irrelevant


Truthfully Dmondragon75 I am very confused with that post, now just maybe everyone in Dalmatia [where ever that is is rich like you buying games they do not use just to keep the programmers programming. As I said I paid $5.95 total for the game from Amazon, but Matrix sold the game to Amazon for I guess for full price that they charge stores.

So Matrix came out of this with what they wanted, and I found away to pay less than most people, I should get credit for being smarter in my buying options than you are Oh well each to their own.

Bo

(in reply to Dmondragon75)
Post #: 42
RE: On the Fence - 1/29/2017 10:19:54 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

manpower is handled by having "Hard" builds as an option.

It is not and I hope you stop claiming this. Let me explain, using Finland and CEaW as an example. Finland was a country of four million people. Compared to Germany's 70 million, and Russia's 170 million, Finland had a limited pool of manpower. In CEaW Finland will start the war at 100% Manpower but with casualties this will quickly fall to 75%, then 50%, causing reduced efficiency. You may continue to add replacement to Finn units, and rebuild destroyed Finn units all you want, but eventually you are below 25% and have a mass of untrained ten year olds.
In SC3, you can use the Finn's units to your hearts content, attacking everywhere, taking magnificent losses, losing as many Finn units as you want, all to be rebuilt at no penalty other than some MPP's. MPP's do not represent nor abstract Manpower, nor do Build Limits. All countries that participated in WWII were faced with manpower shortages. Yes, even the USSR.

It's the same with oil.

If SC3 were ever to include these features, they could be made optional so as to not mandatorily increase complexity. Therefore, no reason to react adversely when others bring up these important but missing features of the WWI strategy.

(in reply to Toby42)
Post #: 43
RE: On the Fence - 1/30/2017 6:14:05 PM   
nickaepi

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 1/17/2017
Status: offline 		No problem man!.. By the way.. This thread escalated quickly into a big mess..LMFAO!

(in reply to Toby42)
Post #: 44
RE: On the Fence - 1/30/2017 6:27:42 PM   
Dmondragon75

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 1/4/2016
Status: offline 		Tnx for the enlightment, I ll never ever buy a game again just to show my appreciation for good idea!
I guess You spared at least few thousands of pounds for my rich pocket which I d have spent if there wasn't your post so I owe U pint of beer at least.

P.S. Dalmatia is somewhere between Alaska and Mozambique, and everyone is speaking Svahili and mountaineering here

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 45
RE: On the Fence - 1/30/2017 8:32:22 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 1041
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dmondragon75

Tnx for the enlightment, I ll never ever buy a game again just to show my appreciation for good idea!
I guess You spared at least few thousands of pounds for my rich pocket which I d have spent if there wasn't your post so I owe U pint of beer at least.

P.S. Dalmatia is somewhere between Alaska and Mozambique, and everyone is speaking Svahili and mountaineering here



BTW Dalmatia is basically the coastline opposite the eastern side of Italy, now part of Slovenia and Croatia (mostly), formerly Yugoslavia


(in reply to Dmondragon75)
Post #: 46
RE: On the Fence - 1/30/2017 9:58:08 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dmondragon75

Tnx for the enlightment, I ll never ever buy a game again just to show my appreciation for good idea!
I guess You spared at least few thousands of pounds for my rich pocket which I d have spent if there wasn't your post so I owe U pint of beer at least.

P.S. Dalmatia is somewhere between Alaska and Mozambique, and everyone is speaking Svahili and mountaineering here




Actually what you said Dmondragon75 was very commendable about helping programmers make better games through supporting them by purchasing them, if I sounded snarky I deeply apologize, I was just reacting to all the complaints by posters about the cost of the game, but more so about the shipping charges.

The other side of the coin is why pay money for a half baked gamed with little thought put into it, I have many sitting on my no play no more shelf ledge

My post answer to you was not thought out properly, for example Hubert and Bill are two of the most deicated programmers around, they back up their games with love and devotion [no I did not get a free game from them ] they will never let us down, but several years ago Fury put out a game called Strategic Command WW2 Pacific theater.

The premise was very well done well thought out but the AI was very poor compared to this new game, and in the end it made the game pretty unplayable AI wise, now I believe it had multiplayer but I always played the AI, with this new AI that game redone could become one of the great computer games ever made hopefully.


P.S. TY Oxford guy for that map had no idea where it was, wonder how the climate is there?

Bo



< Message edited by bo -- 1/30/2017 10:04:18 PM >

(in reply to Dmondragon75)
Post #: 47
RE: On the Fence - 1/30/2017 10:45:33 PM   
Dmondragon75

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 1/4/2016
Status: offline 		Bo this is the beach infront of my house, so much about climate ;)




Attachment (1)

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 48
RE: On the Fence - 1/30/2017 11:25:44 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dmondragon75

Bo this is the beach infront of my house, so much about climate ;)





Awsome sir I can see why you can afford every game no really, my son has a shore home in Ocean city NJ, 4 blocks from the beach which sure does not look like your beach, Average temperature there?

Bo

(in reply to Dmondragon75)
Post #: 49
RE: On the Fence - 1/30/2017 11:28:46 PM   
Dmondragon75

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 1/4/2016
Status: offline 		haha tnx, its 20-35 Celsius during the spring-summer-autumn , mild winters, sea during the spring-summer-autumn 23-28. But country is quite poor currently, was rich during Yugoslavia

< Message edited by Dmondragon75 -- 1/30/2017 11:29:28 PM >

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 50
RE: On the Fence - 1/31/2017 12:27:42 AM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dmondragon75

Tnx for the enlightment, I ll never ever buy a game again just to show my appreciation for good idea!
I guess You spared at least few thousands of pounds for my rich pocket which I d have spent if there wasn't your post so I owe U pint of beer at least.

P.S. Dalmatia is somewhere between Alaska and Mozambique, and everyone is speaking Svahili and mountaineering here



The beer is a great idea, but I only drink Bud "the king of beer" When I brought that particular beer up while doing beta testing with Matrix World in Flames testers I was maligned and scorched as all of the testers were from The Netherlands Sweden, Germany, Denmark, and the only beer they drank was German beer. I am also a great pasta lover.

Bo

(in reply to Dmondragon75)
Post #: 51
RE: On the Fence - 1/31/2017 1:07:55 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline 		BUD !?!? I also malign and scorch you ! lol.

To tell my beer story, I also drank the Bud when I was younger. Then at a party once, there was only Beck's available. While it took some getting used to, I found the extra cost was offset by it's better effects. Sadly, after many many years, in 2012 my beloved Becks sold out to an American brewery and now it sucks

Happily though, a little searching on the interweb found me Spaten Dopplebock Optimator, a lovely treat from Munich.

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 52
RE: On the Fence - 1/31/2017 1:13:17 AM   
James Taylor

 

Posts: 638
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Corpus Christi, Texas
Status: offline 		Yeah bo, beechwood aging and clydesdales to pull a whole wagon full of Bud.....that's beer! May not be the best, but best value? Maybe!

_____________________________

SeaMonkey

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Post #: 53
RE: On the Fence - 1/31/2017 1:24:46 AM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

Yeah bo, beechwood aging and clydesdales to pull a whole wagon full of Bud.....that's beer! May not be the best, but best value? Maybe!


Never allow yourself to defend my beer James, these Euro's will roast you, malign you, besmirsch you, and remember they are all liberals and socialists, and they do not like anything American.

Bo

(in reply to James Taylor)
Post #: 54
RE: On the Fence - 1/31/2017 1:28:42 AM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

BUD !?!? I also malign and scorch you ! lol.

To tell my beer story, I also drank the Bud when I was younger. Then at a party once, there was only Beck's available. While it took some getting used to, I found the extra cost was offset by it's better effects. Sadly, after many many years, in 2012 my beloved Becks sold out to an American brewery and now it sucks

Happily though, a little searching on the interweb found me Spaten Dopplebock Optimator, a lovely treat from Munich.


Nobody from Baltimore should be allowed to scorch anyone, I could never order that beer how the hell would I pronounce it, the bartender would probalby say after I tried to order a few times, forget it buddy here's a Bud

Bo

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 55
RE: On the Fence - 1/31/2017 1:36:04 AM   
James Taylor

 

Posts: 638
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Corpus Christi, Texas
Status: offline 		Except for our military protection!


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

Yeah bo, beechwood aging and clydesdales to pull a whole wagon full of Bud.....that's beer! May not be the best, but best value? Maybe!


Never allow yourself to defend my beer James, these Euro's will roast you, malign you, besmirsch you, and remember they are all liberals and socialists, and they do not like anything American.

Bo



_____________________________

SeaMonkey

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 56
RE: On the Fence - 1/31/2017 1:51:58 AM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

Except for our military protection!


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

Yeah bo, beechwood aging and clydesdales to pull a whole wagon full of Bud.....that's beer! May not be the best, but best value? Maybe!


Never allow yourself to defend my beer James, these Euro's will roast you, malign you, besmirsch you, and remember they are all liberals and socialists, and they do not like anything American.

Bo




Agreed James but to be fair for 7 years we worked on MWIF and never a bad word to me not ever, even though the game frustrated us so badly sometimes I could not sleep at night, we used skype and they all speak perfect English and IMO all fine good men.

Bo

(in reply to James Taylor)
Post #: 57
RE: On the Fence - 1/31/2017 7:13:19 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

I could never order that beer how the hell would I pronounce it,

It's not in any bars, not even the one that has 100 beers ! It's only found at Mr. Wang's Asian Liquor Store. Go figure.

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 58
RE: On the Fence - 1/31/2017 9:55:07 AM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 1041
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bo


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

Except for our military protection!


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

Yeah bo, beechwood aging and clydesdales to pull a whole wagon full of Bud.....that's beer! May not be the best, but best value? Maybe!


Never allow yourself to defend my beer James, these Euro's will roast you, malign you, besmirsch you, and remember they are all liberals and socialists, and they do not like anything American.

Bo




Agreed James but to be fair for 7 years we worked on MWIF and never a bad word to me not ever, even though the game frustrated us so badly sometimes I could not sleep at night, we used skype and they all speak perfect English and IMO all fine good men.

Bo


Real life politics is best not to discuss in game forums, it will only end in tears...

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 59
RE: On the Fence - 1/31/2017 11:06:38 AM   
Iñaki Harrizabalagatar


Posts: 825
Joined: 12/11/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

manpower is handled by having "Hard" builds as an option.

It is not and I hope you stop claiming this. Let me explain, using Finland and CEaW as an example. Finland was a country of four million people. Compared to Germany's 70 million, and Russia's 170 million, Finland had a limited pool of manpower. In CEaW Finland will start the war at 100% Manpower but with casualties this will quickly fall to 75%, then 50%, causing reduced efficiency. You may continue to add replacement to Finn units, and rebuild destroyed Finn units all you want, but eventually you are below 25% and have a mass of untrained ten year olds.
In SC3, you can use the Finn's units to your hearts content, attacking everywhere, taking magnificent losses, losing as many Finn units as you want, all to be rebuilt at no penalty other than some MPP's. MPP's do not represent nor abstract Manpower, nor do Build Limits. All countries that participated in WWII were faced with manpower shortages. Yes, even the USSR.

It's the same with oil.

If SC3 were ever to include these features, they could be made optional so as to not mandatorily increase complexity. Therefore, no reason to react adversely when others bring up these important but missing features of the WWI strategy.

And what about a game in which you can have the entire Whermacht supplied from Bengazi, or whatever obscure town in the Middle East?

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 60
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