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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 1/31/2017 10:59:47 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav


I usually have them spelled in my brain different from the map. Balikpapan is a prime example. I also have it spelled in my brain Balikpan. Of course, if it has more then about 5 letters in the name and it is not English or Spanish sounding, I will probably miss spell it. The Dutch names really kill me.
Wa


You want a real head scratcher?
The base north of Pelelieu is shown on the map as Babeldaob, but in some reports in game it pops up as Babeldoap or Babeldaop. I think I saw that during a bombardment by my ships.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Andav)
Post #: 8911
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 12:58:19 AM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline 		Hit them where they ain't is the early war Allied strategy. The Japanese after late 1943 are looking for that showdown where they can put the allies off 6-12 months before the end comes like a tsunami. I know he lost his late 43 carrier battle with you but he has built his forces back and he can still cause damage to your forces if you get sloppy.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 8912
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 2:13:48 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		John's propensity to run the KB (and the Kaigun in general) all over the map, doing inconsequential things, is always interesting to watch.

He appears to think very much at the tactical level - with some operational details thrown in, but he really seems to have a problem with strategic thinking.

I doubt he really comprehends that Canoe is more than happy to sacrifice a division, if he means that John gets totally out of position & isn't able to react effectively against "war-winning" offensives like what Canoe just pulled off in the Philippines.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 8913
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 3:26:21 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline 		I'm just asking, not being critical. But isn't Manila the goal in getting Luzon? I mean, SAC can hit the main islands now, to a degree. But in my pointy headed little mind Manila is need as a forward base. No?

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 8914
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 3:42:14 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah, Manila is a high-priority goal. I've spelled this out, but it's probably been lost in the clutter of my 10k posts.

I'll move on Manila, but not anytime soon. I don't have the army to do it yet. John is bringing in heavy reinforcements - enough to induce a stalemate. So I'll bide my time, building my bases and trying to secure the central Philippines bases, while waiting for the eventual carrier battle or the point in time in which the Allied army and base-structure is strong enough to allow a move on Manila.

As I've explained in the past, this is going to be a long, six-month campaign. The highest priority remains the Japanese navy, the second highest securing and building the bases (most of which I already have),a nd the third highest is to maul big enemy units. The latter can be done more efficiently once KB is out of the way and I can impose a blockade on Luzon, eliminating supply (IE, a reverse of '41 and '42 on Luzon).

I think, though, that if John suffers a lopsided carrier defeat, he'll seriously consider conceding. At that point he won't have much of a navy left. Such an outcome is not a sure thing, but it's a possibility; a possibility that I'm trying to nurture.

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 8915
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 3:46:56 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

....I doubt he really comprehends that Canoe is more than happy to sacrifice a division, if he means that John gets totally out of position & isn't able to react effectively against "war-winning" offensives like what Canoe just pulled off in the Philippines.


This was the point I was making in regards to John's recent re-conquest of Celebes. I felt, at the time, that there was a good chance I could turn an operational nightmare into a strategic victory - that John's focus on Celebes, combined with what I was seeing from SigInt, reconnaissance, lack of base-building, and absence of detection on patrolling subs - that John hadn't properly attended to his Philippine defenses; I thought he was going to live to regret committing two divisions and two mixed brigades to Celebes; and I thought all of this was symptomatic of his larger problem: aggressive play while failing to attend to defenses properly.

I think that events have proven this was all true.

However, you readers have the benefit of reading both sides, so you'll know if I'm misreading things or failing to arrive at proper conclusions.

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 8916
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 4:08:19 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		4/19/44

Big Tent: KB remains posted near the New Guinea coastline; another powerful enemy bombardment TF strikes Sabang to little effect; and Boela (the citadel for Allied shipping in theater right now) isn't molested. Most, but not all, IJN capital ships are now accounted for. John can't have but a few left for duty elsewhere.

Fun House: Death Star retired to Legaspi to replenish lost aircraft, but flew another costly raid vs. shipping at Manila. I've taken measures to prevent that from happening again. Poilolo is now an advanced Allied PBY base. Also, three or so enemy bases in the central PI have auto-flipped in the past week or so. I'm moving to occupy these so that they don't flip back.

Burma: John's left flank is in bad shape but his right flank is secure. Not sure how that will shake out long term.

Map of Fun House to follow shortly.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8917
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 4:15:21 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		You haven't mentioned whether you have been building up those other bases you have taken in the Philippines. To me, the reason for invading so many bases at once is to be able to build up a series of interlocking airfields - ones that can provide suitable defense for each other. Otherwise, it seems that you are diluting your efforts and thus throwing away the opportunity to have landed everything on Luzon in order to immediately drive on Manila before he can build up his defenses.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8918
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 4:21:21 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		This is a long campaign with most of the assets deposited at Naga and Legaspi, where base building is moving rapidly. But other bases are building: Catanduanes and Guiuan airfields are both at level one; others (Cebu, Dinagat, Catbalogan) are coming along more slowly. The pace of building at those places is slower because they have less engineers.

Taking bases, building them strong, forming a strong defensive core in the heart of the Philippines, were higher priorities than moving on Manila and leaving all kinds of potential enemy bases in my rear. This is not a blitzkrieg - I think I've specifically said that before. This campaign is intended to take time, to serve as a vortex, to draw in enemy ships and men, and to then defeat them in (as Obvert says) decisive battle.

Moving on Manila with 200k men while John has 100k or 150k would just be a stalemate for a long, long time. More productive things can be done to solidify the position and permit a combined arms attack that will defeat the enemy 150k army while choking off supply.

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 8919
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 4:27:10 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Fun House




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8920
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 4:33:37 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Burma no longer matters. He is worried about his hands and toes when you have a firm grip on his balls.....

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 8921
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 4:34:48 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		That's the point I made yesterday - much more genteelly, I might add - by saying he was fighting battles in Texas and Florida while Sherman was bearing down on Atlanta.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 2/1/2017 4:35:05 PM >

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 8922
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 5:26:55 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		This has been a costly war at sea for both sides. I've lost a lot of good ships, especially cruisers, destroyers, AOs and TKs. The combat ships were expended to attrition the enemy - pretty effectively, I believe. The fuel/oilers were lost because John sank 'em and because, early in the game, I took a lot of risks with them and didn't fully understand their value (a flaw I am learning from).

But I've been mighty protective of good transports and carriers. That, in turn, has helped create the current environment.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8923
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 5:44:32 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline
quote:

enemy bombardment TF strikes Sabang


Should be Sorong as you indicated in the map. See post # 8917.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8924
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 5:47:34 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Oops, I was suffering a flashback to January 1943!

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 8925
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 5:52:25 PM   
dave sindel

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 3/13/2006
From: Millersburg, OH
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

That's the point I made yesterday - much more genteelly, I might add - by saying he was fighting battles in Texas and Florida while Sherman was bearing down on Atlanta.


Yours was an excellent analogy, but crsutton's description cut right to the heart of the matter.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8926
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 5:56:13 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, I know, but I wither when someone writes more descriptively than I do!

(in reply to dave sindel)
Post #: 8927
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 6:15:15 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

destroyers, AOs and TKs.
Well, you should have DD's and TK's you don't know what to do with at this point. I forget how many AO's you get but you have an excellent network of large bases so those should not be an issue anymore. Never seem to have enough CA's & Cl's in the best of times but you should start getting more CA's plus the British ones are not bad. At this point I think it would be really funny if John preserves all his CV's until August 45 and you kill them in port with A-bombs. George B. McClellan would be proud of the state of the KB. All trained, supplied, polished and marching around in circles

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8928
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 6:19:13 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I have plenty of TKs and AOs now but things were tight back in early and mid '43.

You're right about cruisers. I lost a lot, so they are scarce, valuable and needed.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 8929
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 8:54:13 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

destroyers, AOs and TKs.
Well, you should have DD's and TK's you don't know what to do with at this point. I forget how many AO's you get but you have an excellent network of large bases so those should not be an issue anymore. Never seem to have enough CA's & Cl's in the best of times but you should start getting more CA's plus the British ones are not bad. At this point I think it would be really funny if John preserves all his CV's until August 45 and you kill them in port with A-bombs. George B. McClellan would be proud of the state of the KB. All trained, supplied, polished and marching around in circles


I can always find a use for DDs. Give me more, please.

TKs, sure... even AOs I have more than enough, but I also don't use their at-sea replenishment function as much as other folks seem to.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 8930
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 8:56:08 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		At this point, DDs are certainly more valuable (from a strategic perspective). Although they don't bombard well, they can chase down enemy shipping and put a torpedo or two into capital ships as well.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 8931
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 9:09:51 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

At this point, DDs are certainly more valuable (from a strategic perspective). Although they don't bombard well, they can chase down enemy shipping and put a torpedo or two into capital ships as well.


Yeah but if he has traded DDs then he is now getting about 20 every 60 days and John is not. The math works out in the end.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 8932
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 9:21:35 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		Time to make numerous 8 ship SC TFs made up of Fletchers and go hunting.

_____________________________


(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 8933
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/1/2017 11:29:41 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Time to make numerous 8 ship SC TFs made up of Fletchers and go hunting

indeed. At this point in the war CA's & BB's have as much to fear as you do

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to ny59giants)
Post #: 8934
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/2/2017 2:18:19 AM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

Those are battles in Texas and Florida while Sherman is driving on Atlanta.


+1

Nice comparison!

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8935
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/2/2017 2:45:29 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yeah, Manila is a high-priority goal. I've spelled this out, but it's probably been lost in the clutter of my 10k posts.

I'll move on Manila, but not anytime soon. I don't have the army to do it yet. John is bringing in heavy reinforcements - enough to induce a stalemate. So I'll bide my time, building my bases and trying to secure the central Philippines bases, while waiting for the eventual carrier battle or the point in time in which the Allied army and base-structure is strong enough to allow a move on Manila.

As I've explained in the past, this is going to be a long, six-month campaign. The highest priority remains the Japanese navy, the second highest securing and building the bases (most of which I already have),a nd the third highest is to maul big enemy units. The latter can be done more efficiently once KB is out of the way and I can impose a blockade on Luzon, eliminating supply (IE, a reverse of '41 and '42 on Luzon).

I think, though, that if John suffers a lopsided carrier defeat, he'll seriously consider conceding. At that point he won't have much of a navy left. Such an outcome is not a sure thing, but it's a possibility; a possibility that I'm trying to nurture.


Yeah, in all probability you might have been able to pull off a coup de main on Manila. But now it will be a longer campaign. Of course, hindsight is always 20-20. Especially mine. All in all, if I were the Allied player, I would have to be pretty darn satisfied with your position in the PI.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8936
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/2/2017 2:54:52 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		Let John pour troops into Luzon. You are correct in thinking that it will merely turn into a giant POW camp once you move closer to Japan.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 8937
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/2/2017 2:59:31 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		There is no way I could have pulled off a coup-de-main....unless I was armed with perfect foresight. I think the only way anybody would conclude that was possible is if they were reading John's AAR and he was expounding on how exposed he was. I wasn't armed with such information and had to allow for all kinds of eventualities. And even if I did have that information it probably only flattered to deceive.

John could easily bring in reinforcemetns from close by, Manila is urban terrain, and he'd have big airfields while I'd have none. Can anyone see how a big land campaign without controlling the air would have a chance of succeeding as a blitzkrieg or coup-de-main? There's no way. No way an army of 150k could move up that peninsula without air cover all the way to Manila and attack successfully before he reinforced strong enough to induce a stalemate in which I'd then have all kinds of problems.

I also had to take measures against him having KB in the region, meaning I had to allow for a possible combined KB/LBA attack and that I might lose.

I began planning this nine months ago and had troops prepped accordingly. I was prepared to move on Manila if I won a carrier battle early in the campaign. Then the road would have indeed been open and I'd have landed at Appari in strength, thus moving on Mainla from both directions. But with KB hanging back, that wasn't possible.

I am concentrating on building a "Big Tent-Type" network of bases. That will allow me to move on Manila eventually no matter where KB is located. Eventually Luzon is going to be either a prison camp or a massive Dunkirk operation for John - sooner (if KB is defeated) or later (once I've done what I need to do).


(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 8938
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/2/2017 3:04:39 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		CR - I believe your assessment is correct. There is no way that John would not have prepared Manila / Luzon for a robust defense, given the time he had, plus his ability to bring reinforcements in fairly quickly (as had been in evidence over the past week).

Instead, you have a very strong position, in the Central Philippines, that John will not be able to evict you from - and even if he tried, it would require substantial commitments in both air and naval power which he has now scattered all over the map.

Kudos.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 8939
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 2/2/2017 3:08:33 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Sorry if you said and I missed it - have you recon of ~how many troops are on Luzon?

FYI, I am thinking in terms of potentially trapped there, not defenders for Manila. I regard Manila as certainly a nice base, but moving on with available speed might just make it a bypassed location.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 8940
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