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RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Patience, and Firepower

 
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RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 1/1/2017 11:12:31 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli
I think my strategy needs to be changed. I won't be able to take Hokadate unless I can cut off the supply by taking the landing on the other side of the strait in Honshu.

Looks like too few armor for the siege of that caliber. It's this specific Allied strength that counts the most against tough spots. And he does not have artillery or AT guns there too.

Interesting. I have mostly been using armor in open terrain which explains their absence here; they are planning for other targets. TBH I've never had much success with tank heavy attacks because the LCUs are so small. If I had a tank division that would be a different story.

(in reply to GetAssista)
Post #: 391
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 1/1/2017 11:17:23 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
Tanks are very much help against fortified targets. You can do without the preparation if they are arriving overland (and won't lose time preparing for their next target).

_____________________________


(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 392
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 1/1/2017 11:19:33 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Tanks are very much help against fortified targets. You can do without the preparation if they are arriving overland (and won't lose time preparing for their next target).

Ya, maybe I'll bring some more tanks in to help. Currently I have some in Canada.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 393
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 1/10/2017 5:57:49 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline
August 4th, 1944

Things have been a bit quieter of late. No surface engagements or naval strikes by either side. But my 4E have been active in attacking Japanese fighter factories. Today I decided to switch it up and send my B-29s into Manchuria. Nearly all the industry there is within the normal range of B-29s and the Japanese are already struggling to defend Japan from my bombers.



107 B-29s in one raid! That's a lot of firepower! And they did plenty of damage:

quote:

Morning Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 65 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 107

No Allied losses

Heavy Industry hits 32



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 62 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 9

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 2 damaged

Heavy Industry hits 4



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 7

No Allied losses

Heavy Industry hits 1



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 45 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 7

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged

Heavy Industry hits 2



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 7

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged

Heavy Industry hits 3



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 7

No Allied losses

Heavy Industry hits 5


I also had very good success against a George factory:


quote:

Morning Air attack on Toyama , at 112,57

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 31 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 1

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 12

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

N1K2-J George factory hits 10


That's much more accurate than usual.

Meanwhile, I have developed some new tactics for the Death Star. I am slowly bringing them around Japan to launch Corsair sweeps over Japan to clear the way for my 4E in deeper bases. Part of my plan at this moment is to simply attrite the Japanese with superior planes and pilots. My strategy seems to be working:



quote:

Afternoon Air attack on Maebashi , at 113,59

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 23,690 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
A6M8 Zero x 14
A7M2 Sam x 1
N1K2-J George x 1
Ki-61-Id Tony x 43
Ki-84a Frank x 79
Ki-100-I Tony x 68

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 87

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-61-Id Tony: 9 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 10 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 12 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 3 destroyed


With ratios like that and the destruction of Japanese fighter factories, the Japanese fighter strength must be plummeting. P-47s and P-51s do even better than that when weather permits. It won't be too long until Ki-44s, Ki-43s, and A6Ms are the backbone of the Japanese air force again.

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 394
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 1/26/2017 2:50:53 AM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline
August 16th, 1944

Things are chugging along. I am bombing fighter factories in Japan and industry in Manchuria with good success. Japanese CAP is still giving me some headaches so I have been avoiding more heavily defended bases. Today something very interesting happened. I had a fletcher fleet docked in southern Hokkaido for rearm/refuel but forgot to undock them at the end of the turn. Big mistake!!!



quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Muroran at 120,52, Range 2,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-168
MTB G-169, Shell hits 1, on fire
MTB G-175
MTB G-186, Shell hits 3, on fire
MTB G-187
MTB G-188
MTB G-189, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Cogswell, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Conner, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Foote
DD Franks, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Heermann, Shell hits 20, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Hudson, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Izard
DD Jenkins, Shell hits 27, on fire
DD Ross, Shell hits 11
DD Thatcher, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Reduced sighting due to 10% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 10% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
Range closes to 12,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 2,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 2,000 yards
Allied ships attempt to get underway


Despite outnumbering the MTBs, my Fletchers got wrecked! Clearly having surface ships docked near the front line makes the sitting ducks. Even nimble Fletchers. My radar also did not work this time which definitely contributed to this disaster. And this was under the venerable Arleigh Burke who was the best destroyer captain of the war.

Currently I am about a week away from landing in northern Honshu. My greatest concerns in the landing are Japanese MTBs and CAP traps of my carrier bombers. I am debating simply turning off naval strike for all my carrier bombers because otherwise they will probably end up suiciding themselves against unimportant targets covered by heavy CAP. I really wish there was a way to tell my bombers to only attack BBs and CVs and ignore everything else. It's quite the irony that at this point in the war the value in carrier bombers is less than it was in 1918.

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 395
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 1/27/2017 12:30:25 AM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
Joined: 6/26/2008
From: Phenix City, Alabama
Status: offline
9 hits from 14 torpedoes is good shooting regardless if you were docked or not. The most under developed Japanese sector was there MTBs, Captain Hara of Destroyer Shigure fame, was the first Commandant of their MTB school. He was totally shocked at the sad state of their MTB development and how far behind the Allies Japan was.

< Message edited by Bif1961 -- 1/27/2017 1:39:05 AM >

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 396
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 1/27/2017 12:33:01 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
That is basically amazing performance!

_____________________________


(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 397
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 1/27/2017 11:42:17 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961
9 hits from 14 torpedoes is good shooting regardless if you were docked or not. The most under developed Japanese sector was there MTBs, Captain Hara of Destroyer Shigure fame, was the first Commandant of their MTB school. He was totally shocked at the sad state of their MTB development and how far behind the Allies Japan was.

Exact opposite in this game. Japanese MTBs rule the seas of northern Japan.

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 398
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/1/2017 6:33:49 AM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline
August 21st, 1944

Well my forces landed on Honshu! It was a bloodbath in many ways. I won't post the full thing until tomorrow but here's a sneak preview of an air attack:

quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Hachinohe at 118,55

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 116 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 8
N1K1-J George x 8
N1K2-J George x 17
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 9
Ki-46-III Dinah x 13
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 27
Ki-84a Frank x 53
Ki-100-I Tony x 26

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 97
Martlet IV x 9
Spitfire VIII x 2
Thunderbolt I x 4
Spitfire VIII x 3
P-40N1 Warhawk x 16
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 6
FM-2 Wildcat x 629
F4U-1A Corsair x 424
F6F-3 Hellcat x 434
F6F-5 Hellcat x 224

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 4 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 10 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-46-III Dinah: 9 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 10 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-84a Frank: 21 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 17 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 4 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 399
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/1/2017 1:30:12 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline
That CAP looks ... impressive.

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 400
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/1/2017 4:57:52 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline
Landing in Honshu

Well the day has come! As expected, those pesky MTBs caused me all sorts of trouble:



quote:

ight Time Surface Combat, near Hachinohe at 118,55, Range 1,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-168
MTB G-175
MTB G-187
MTB G-189
MTB G-192

Allied Ships
BB Arizona
DD Terry, Shell hits 1
DD Mugford
AP Gen. H.L.Scott, Shell hits 4
AKA Arneb
AKA Capricornus
SC PC-778
PF Hoquiam
xAP Dunnatar Castle
xAP Indora, Shell hits 5
xAK Singu
xAK Clan Macnair
xAP Hong Kheng
xAP Poelau Laut
xAK Defiance, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Golden Gate, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Dellwood

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 44 (2 destroyed, 42 disabled)

Reduced sighting due to 7% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 7% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 25,000 yards...
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
Range closes to 15,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 15,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
MTB G-192 engages AP Gen. H.L.Scott at 1,000 yards


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Ominato at 119,55, Range 1,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
MTB G-168
MTB G-175
MTB G-187
MTB G-189
MTB G-192

Allied Ships
AM Prevail, Shell hits 1
LST-31
LST-43
LST-205
LST-207, Shell hits 1
LST-214
LST-215
LST-216
LST-217
LST-220
LST-246
LST-247
LST-248
LST-249
LST-268
LST-269, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
LST-270, Shell hits 4
LST-271, Shell hits 1
LST-272, Shell hits 25
LST-273, Shell hits 20, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Reduced sighting due to 7% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 7% moonlight: 2,000 yards
Range closes to 25,000 yards...
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 20,000 yards
Range closes to 15,000 yards...
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
MTB G-192 engages LST-273 at 1,000 yards


Despite multiple cruiser and destroyer fleets engaging them afterwards, not a single one was seriously damaged.

Then some Japanese destroyers managed to ambush a cruiser fleet and tear them to shreds:



quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Akita at 117,55, Range 2,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 5 destroyed

Japanese Ships
DD Urakaze, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Samidare, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Umikaze

Allied Ships
CA Baltimore, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Boyd, Shell hits 2
DD Evertsen, Shell hits 1, on fire
CL Vincennes II, Shell hits 17, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Le Fier, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage

Reduced sighting due to 7% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 7% moonlight: 3,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...
Range closes to 18,000 yards...
Range closes to 12,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 2,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 2,000 yards
Shiraishi, Nagayo crosses the 'T'


What an absolutely pathetic showing! Radar was a complete non-factor here. The Japanese snuck in close and just rampaged a vastly superior fleet.

In the landing itself CD guns proved quite the obstacle. This is just one combat snippet:

quote:

Invasion Support action off Hachinohe (118,55) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

123 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
BB Mississippi, Shell hits 7
DD Ward
LSD Carter Hall, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
DD McCord
LSD Belle Grove, Shell hits 10, heavy fires, heavy damage
LSD Epping Forest, Shell hits 2, on fire
LSD Gunston Hall
APA Barnstable

Japanese ground losses:
76 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Many ships were sunk by CD guns and countless more were damaged.

During the day the Japanese sent wave after wave of aircraft at the Deathstar:



quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Hachinohe at 118,55

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 116 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 8
N1K1-J George x 8
N1K2-J George x 17
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 9
Ki-46-III Dinah x 13
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 27
Ki-84a Frank x 53
Ki-100-I Tony x 26

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 97
Martlet IV x 9
Spitfire VIII x 2
Thunderbolt I x 4
Spitfire VIII x 3
P-40N1 Warhawk x 16
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 6
FM-2 Wildcat x 629
F4U-1A Corsair x 424
F6F-3 Hellcat x 434
F6F-5 Hellcat x 224

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 4 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 10 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 4 destroyed
Ki-46-III Dinah: 9 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 10 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-84a Frank: 21 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 17 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 4 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed


That was the first of many waves to crash into my enormous CAP. I recently removed every dive bomber from my squadrons, replaced them with fighters, and turned naval strike off. Even my CVs only provide CAP and ASW. Naval bombing from carriers is so 1942. Only a single attack in the morning managed to hit a ship:



quote:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Hachinohe at 118,55

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 24,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-61-Id Tony x 22
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 81

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 56
Martlet IV x 6
Thunderbolt I x 2
Spitfire VIII x 3
P-40N1 Warhawk x 5
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 3
FM-2 Wildcat x 354
F4U-1A Corsair x 209
F6F-3 Hellcat x 223
F6F-5 Hellcat x 107

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-61-Id Tony: 6 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 37 destroyed, 23 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CVE Admiralty Island
CVE Breton
CVE Attu, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Fanshaw Bay
CVE Thetis Bay
CVE Shamrock Bay

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
4 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
4 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo


In the afternoon, however, the KB launched its planes at me. Most of my fighters were flying high and engaged the escorting fighters but not the bombers. When I watched the replay, every single fighter was shot down or forced to turn back but not a single bomber was engaged:



quote:

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Hachinohe at 118,55

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 26
B6N2 Jill x 163
D4Y3 Judy x 81
D4Y4 Judy x 21
N1K2-J George x 200

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 89
Martlet IV x 9
Spitfire VIII x 2
Thunderbolt I x 4
Spitfire VIII x 2
P-40N1 Warhawk x 15
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 6
FM-2 Wildcat x 569
F4U-1A Corsair x 377
F6F-3 Hellcat x 405
F6F-5 Hellcat x 205

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 13 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 53 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 15 destroyed by flak
D4Y3 Judy: 26 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 10 destroyed by flak
D4Y4 Judy: 9 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 2 destroyed by flak
N1K2-J George: 75 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair II: 1 destroyed
FM-2 Wildcat: 7 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 5 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 5 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Hornet
CV Saratoga, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CV Wasp, Torpedo hits 1
CVL Princeton
BB Massachusetts
CV Victorious, Torpedo hits 1
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires
CV Hornet II, Bomb hits 1
CVL Cowpens, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CV Yorktown II, Torpedo hits 1
CVL Bataan
CVL Langley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Woodworth
CV Wasp II
BB Indiana
DD Claxton

Aircraft Attacking:
21 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
9 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
11 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
6 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
19 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
14 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
21 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
10 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
19 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
9 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
21 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
7 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
10 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
10 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
12 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
2 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
8 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
7 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
16 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
6 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
1 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
1 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
1 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb




As you can see from the report, nearly every Japanese bomber managed to drop their bombs or torpedoes on my ships. Luckily heavy AA fire and inexperienced Japanse pilots prevented them from doing too much damage. The CV Yorktown looks in bad shape but its hard to say if it will sink until I get the turn back. In any case, my ship losses from air attacks are pretty light compared to Japanese air losses. I would guess at least 2,000 Japanese planes were shot down. Given the damage I have done to Japanese fighter factories, I cannot imagine Japan will be able to replenish most losses with modern fighters. Many will have to be downgraded to older models I imagine.

Here is the situation on the ground:

quote:

Ground combat at Hachinohe (118,55)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 118316 troops, 1283 guns, 224 vehicles, Assault Value = 4896

Defending force 77968 troops, 1546 guns, 2191 vehicles, Assault Value = 3126

Japanese ground losses:
4021 casualties reported
Squads: 162 destroyed, 71 disabled
Non Combat: 21 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 11 disabled
Guns lost 40 (33 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
311 casualties reported
Squads: 13 destroyed, 32 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 8 destroyed, 8 disabled
Guns lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (6 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Assaulting units:
89th Naval Guard Unit
44th Division
42nd Division
66th Ind.Mixed Brigade
4th Engineer Co
1st Guard ADU Coastal Gun Battalion
9th ADU Coastal Gun Regiment
18th Division
47th Ind.Mixed Brigade
3rd Guards Division
5th ADU Coastal Gun Regiment
8th ADU Coastal Gun Regiment
50th Ind.Mixed Brigade
49th Ind.Mixed Brigade
84th Division
102nd Division
73rd Division
93rd Division
2nd ADU Coastal Gun Regiment
1st Guards Division
7th Guard ADU Coastal Gun Battalion
1st Naval Construction Battalion
31st Army
51st Road Const Co
3rd Naval Construction Battalion
3rd Mortar Regiment
32nd Ind.AA Gun Co
11th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
176th JAAF AF Bn
16th Field AF Construction Battalion
2nd Medium Mortar Battalion
64th Construction Battalion
4th IJN Pioneer Battalion
23rd Air Flotilla
17th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
13th Field AF Construction Battalion
2nd Air Division
20th RF Gun Battalion
19th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
113th AA Regiment
18th RF Gun Battalion
6th Naval Construction Battalion
38th Road Const Co
18th Field AF Construction Battalion
19th RF Gun Battalion
39th Road Const Co
7th IJN AA Battalion

Defending units:
18th Combat Engineer Regiment
8th NZ Bde /1
1st Cavalry (Spec) Cav Div /7
14th Canadian Brigade
706th Tank Battalion
762nd Tank Battalion
3rd Marine Division
16th Canadian Brigade
711th Tank Battalion
754th Tank Battalion
53rd (Sep) Infantry Regiment
1st USMC Amphb Tank Battalion
1st USMC Tank Battalion
2nd USMC Tank Battalion
Fiji Brigade
671th Tank Destroyer Battalion
1st Marine Division
670th Tank Destroyer Battalion
6th Infantry Division
77th Infantry Div /2
I Corps Artillery
4th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
12th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
251st Field Artillery Battalion
462nd Parachute Field Artillery Battalion
7th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
Tenth US Army
10th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
8th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
I Australian Corps /2


The Japanese have an edge in AV but Hachinohe is in open terrain. I also am going to land more AV tomorrow. Still, it makes me nervous because the Japanese can bring literally their whole army here if they want. And landing supply is going to be very expensive for me; many ships will not return. Hopefully my bombers can obliterate anything in their way. I think stacking will also work in my favor; if the Japanese bring too many units they will pay a heavy stacking penalty. I am not sure the Japanese will attempt to fight me on the beaches in open terrain and risk their whole army; the smart move may be to pull back into terrain and hold there.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Sangeli -- 2/1/2017 5:02:20 PM >

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 401
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/1/2017 5:37:21 PM   
jwolf

 

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That is an amazing number of Japanese casualties for a bombardment attack. I shudder to think what will happen to them once you launch a serious ground attack.

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 402
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/1/2017 11:33:05 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

That is an amazing number of Japanese casualties for a bombardment attack. I shudder to think what will happen to them once you launch a serious ground attack.

The magnitude of every aspect of the war in this stage is staggering whether it's the number of aircraft getting shot down or casualties on the ground. The crazy part is that it's only August 1944. The planned landing in Honshu was supposed to happen in March 1946; I'm almost two years ahead of schedule! Taking Tokyo by spring 45 isn't out of the question. I could end the war before Germany surrenders. Admiral King would be very proud.

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 403
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/2/2017 3:59:46 AM   
Sangeli


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From: San Francisco
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Turns out the Japanese actually lost fewer planes today than they did in the huge attack when I landed on Hokkaido:



Still an enormous amount of planes shot down.

My naval losses weren't all that bad. The biggest loss came when a 3 DD IJN SCTF sunk two cruisers. Its crazy to think that about only about 20 MTBs and DDs in northern Japan have cause me more issues than every kamikaze attacks ever have.



But the CV Yorktown has some pretty bad fires. Hard to say if it will sink:



My transports got hit pretty badly though. Undoubtedly a number of them will sink:



Overall, things look pretty good for me. Losses were lighter in comparison to the Hokkaido landing.

< Message edited by Sangeli -- 2/2/2017 5:59:05 AM >

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 404
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/2/2017 1:16:01 PM   
jwolf

 

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Well, that LSI with 99 fires is ... toast, so to speak. And that looks really bad for the Yorktown. Is late war Allied damage control good enough to save a ship in such grave condition? I admit I would have thought it was hopeless. What can you do about those MTBs? The Japanese successes with those seem incredible, even far beyond a "best case" scenario.

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 405
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/2/2017 2:59:35 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Well, that LSI with 99 fires is ... toast, so to speak. And that looks really bad for the Yorktown. Is late war Allied damage control good enough to save a ship in such grave condition? I admit I would have thought it was hopeless. What can you do about those MTBs? The Japanese successes with those seem incredible, even far beyond a "best case" scenario.

He must have put his best Naval Skill/High Aggression commanders in those MTBs. He probably waited for low moonlight conditions before releasing them.

I would counter with a couple of squadrons of DDs with CrackerJack captains and set some fighters or assault bombers to Naval Attack at 100 feet. Range setting would be a judgement call.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 406
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/2/2017 8:50:14 PM   
Bif1961


Posts: 2014
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From: Phenix City, Alabama
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Vincennes II sunk is there a Vincennes III on the ways?

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 407
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/2/2017 9:59:15 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Vincennes II sunk is there a Vincennes III on the ways?



Maybe the name is jinxed! Better name the next one Hoboken!

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Bif1961)
Post #: 408
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/3/2017 12:54:07 AM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf
Well, that LSI with 99 fires is ... toast, so to speak. And that looks really bad for the Yorktown. Is late war Allied damage control good enough to save a ship in such grave condition? I admit I would have thought it was hopeless. What can you do about those MTBs? The Japanese successes with those seem incredible, even far beyond a "best case" scenario.

I scuttle anything with 99 fires. There's just no chance. The Yorktown did survive though :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
I would counter with a couple of squadrons of DDs with CrackerJack captains and set some fighters or assault bombers to Naval Attack at 100 feet. Range setting would be a judgement call.


I'm trying to use destroyer and cruiser screens against MTBs. Not very effective. The MTBs always get away. Now that Japanese CAP has subsided I could try naval bombing but that window could end quickly.



(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 409
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/3/2017 3:46:54 AM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
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quote:

I'm trying to use destroyer and cruiser screens against MTBs. Not very effective. The MTBs always get away.


Do you have any PT boats of your own?

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(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 410
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/3/2017 3:53:01 AM   
Sangeli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock
quote:

I'm trying to use destroyer and cruiser screens against MTBs. Not very effective. The MTBs always get away.

Do you have any PT boats of your own?

I do. They don't do anything against MTBs either. Tried a number of times.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 411
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/3/2017 12:49:41 PM   
jwolf

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock
quote:

I'm trying to use destroyer and cruiser screens against MTBs. Not very effective. The MTBs always get away.

Do you have any PT boats of your own?

I do. They don't do anything against MTBs either. Tried a number of times.


Trying to grasp at straws here -- is it possible that the PTs would still be a help if they could just neutralize the MTBs? Kind of hold their focus on the PTs so they don't attack other shipping?

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 412
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/3/2017 3:28:13 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock
quote:

I'm trying to use destroyer and cruiser screens against MTBs. Not very effective. The MTBs always get away.

Do you have any PT boats of your own?

I do. They don't do anything against MTBs either. Tried a number of times.


Trying to grasp at straws here -- is it possible that the PTs would still be a help if they could just neutralize the MTBs? Kind of hold their focus on the PTs so they don't attack other shipping?

I figure that is some help. Can't measure it, but I try to use them that way.

_____________________________


(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 413
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/3/2017 5:50:48 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
I wonder if the British MGBs would be more help against MTBs? I know their speed is lower than a PT, but I don't know if the IJN MTBs are all that fast.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 414
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/3/2017 9:53:45 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf
Trying to grasp at straws here -- is it possible that the PTs would still be a help if they could just neutralize the MTBs? Kind of hold their focus on the PTs so they don't attack other shipping?

I figure that is some help. Can't measure it, but I try to use them that way.

They engage and disengage without too many shots fired. Still, it uses ammo.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

I wonder if the British MGBs would be more help against MTBs? I know their speed is lower than a PT, but I don't know if the IJN MTBs are all that fast.

Maybe. But they are too far away to help.

In any case, its the CD guns that are giving me the most trouble. I lost 8 LSTs this past turn dropping supply off. Because the Japanese have proven to be more stubborn here than I thought, I am switching some units to prep for landing there. So its gonna cost me more ships no doubt.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 415
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/3/2017 9:59:17 PM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
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From: San Francisco
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August 24th, 1944

I finally attacked Hachinohe. But the Japanese did a solid for me in attacking first:

quote:

Ground combat at Hachinohe (118,55)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 99689 troops, 1164 guns, 233 vehicles, Assault Value = 5185

Defending force 85911 troops, 1699 guns, 2267 vehicles, Assault Value = 3311

Japanese adjusted assault: 274

Allied adjusted defense: 2434

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 8

Combat modifiers
Defender: experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
12754 casualties reported
Squads: 278 destroyed, 216 disabled
Non Combat: 130 destroyed, 45 disabled
Engineers: 44 destroyed, 38 disabled
Guns lost 72 (30 destroyed, 42 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (8 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
1324 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 72 disabled
Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 102 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 12 disabled
Guns lost 44 (9 destroyed, 35 disabled)
Vehicles lost 194 (45 destroyed, 149 disabled)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hachinohe (118,55)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 74743 troops, 1646 guns, 1923 vehicles, Assault Value = 3023

Defending force 155128 troops, 1744 guns, 339 vehicles, Assault Value = 4594

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Allied adjusted assault: 1431

Japanese adjusted defense: 2450

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 4)

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
4693 casualties reported
Squads: 199 destroyed, 283 disabled
Non Combat: 45 destroyed, 93 disabled
Engineers: 76 destroyed, 109 disabled
Guns lost 249 (90 destroyed, 159 disabled)
Vehicles lost 63 (25 destroyed, 38 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
3715 casualties reported
Squads: 173 destroyed, 665 disabled
Non Combat: 53 destroyed, 223 disabled
Engineers: 15 destroyed, 26 disabled
Guns lost 167 (16 destroyed, 151 disabled)
Vehicles lost 397 (98 destroyed, 299 disabled)


Getting the fort lowered is important. The Japanese can send near unlimited soldiers at my beach head. I need to rely heavily on air and naval bombardment to dislodge them. Less forts make that more effective. And the supply issues could also be of great help.

I also launched an attack on Hokodate:

quote:

Ground combat at Hakodate (119,53)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 66962 troops, 1302 guns, 2422 vehicles, Assault Value = 2437

Defending force 68723 troops, 764 guns, 361 vehicles, Assault Value = 1934

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 5

Allied adjusted assault: 1722

Japanese adjusted defense: 6497

Allied assault odds: 1 to 3 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2308 casualties reported
Squads: 14 destroyed, 156 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 29 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 36 disabled
Guns lost 43 (3 destroyed, 40 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
3861 casualties reported
Squads: 64 destroyed, 668 disabled
Non Combat: 119 destroyed, 149 disabled
Engineers: 6 destroyed, 41 disabled
Guns lost 218 (32 destroyed, 186 disabled)
Vehicles lost 317 (213 destroyed, 104 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
716th Tank Battalion
38th Infantry Division
41st Infantry Division
4th USMC Tank Battalion
710th Tank Battalion
4th Marine Division
44th Tank Battalion
CenPac Amphib Tank Brigade
2nd Marine Division
775th Tank Battalion
2nd USMC Amphb Tank Battalion
3rd USMC Tank Battalion
5th USMC Tank Battalion
165th Field Artillery Battalion
XIV Corps Artillery
Sixth US Army
148th Field Artillery Battalion
2/16th Field Regiment
XI Corps Artillery
225th Field Artillery Battalion
11th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
XI US Corps
9th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
3rd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
33rd Medium Regiment

Defending units:
IJA Edo Brigade
77th Division
71st Division
7th Division
36th Division
53rd Ind.Mixed Brigade
53rd Const Co
Hakodate Fortress
1st JAAF AF Bn
21st Field AF Construction Battalion
27th Army
12th Field AF Construction Battalion
1st Air Division
73rd Field AA Battalion
49th JAAF AF Bn
55th JAAF AF Bn
141st AA Regiment
5th Area Army
134th AA Regiment
31st Air Defense AA Regiment
77th JAAF AF Bn


My plan is to try to drain supply from northern Japan by attacking here as well. But even when things go well there is a heavy price to pay in soldiers. Note that I brought much more artillery and armor here to try to break the defenses.

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 416
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/3/2017 10:45:27 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
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quote:


Getting the fort lowered is important. The Japanese can send near unlimited soldiers at my beach head. I need to rely heavily on air and naval bombardment to dislodge them. Less forts make that more effective. And the supply issues could also be of great help.



My plan is to try to drain supply from northern Japan by attacking here as well. But even when things go well there is a heavy price to pay in soldiers. Note that I brought much more artillery and armor here to try to break the defenses.



What about engineers? I dont see any dedicated combat engineer units. What numbers of them are available in '44?

"Engineers: 6 destroyed, 41 disabled " low numbers. Integrated engineers of other units.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 2/3/2017 11:05:26 PM >

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 417
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/4/2017 12:24:54 AM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
What about engineers? I dont see any dedicated combat engineer units. What numbers of them are available in '44?

"Engineers: 6 destroyed, 41 disabled " low numbers. Integrated engineers of other units.

I have a few there. Later in the war you get some regimental sized units with around 250 engineering squads but they don't have any artillery. I have found engineer LCUs to be overrated in combat. They are smaller in size than divisions and as a result get smashed easily. The engineers in infantry divisions are much more durable and useful. In any case, my engineers brought down the fort level so its clear that I have enough here. I just need more guns, tanks, and infantry. Here is an example of the regiments you get:



< Message edited by Sangeli -- 2/4/2017 12:28:00 AM >

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 418
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/4/2017 2:20:31 AM   
Insano

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 7/23/2009
From: Joplin, Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sangeli

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf
Well, that LSI with 99 fires is ... toast, so to speak. And that looks really bad for the Yorktown. Is late war Allied damage control good enough to save a ship in such grave condition? I admit I would have thought it was hopeless. What can you do about those MTBs? The Japanese successes with those seem incredible, even far beyond a "best case" scenario.

I scuttle anything with 99 fires. There's just no chance. The Yorktown did survive though :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
I would counter with a couple of squadrons of DDs with CrackerJack captains and set some fighters or assault bombers to Naval Attack at 100 feet. Range setting would be a judgement call.


I'm trying to use destroyer and cruiser screens against MTBs. Not very effective. The MTBs always get away. Now that Japanese CAP has subsided I could try naval bombing but that window could end quickly.




quote:

f


You saved the Yorktown with 55 Sys 46 Flt and 93 Fires?!?!
That is an exceptional damage control result! Must have been perfect rolls - seems like a 1 in a 1000 result there.
Well done!

(in reply to Sangeli)
Post #: 419
RE: Straight Into the Teeth: A Story of Logistics, Pati... - 2/4/2017 2:29:12 AM   
Sangeli


Posts: 1132
Joined: 3/29/2012
From: San Francisco
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Insano

You saved the Yorktown with 55 Sys 46 Flt and 93 Fires?!?!
That is an exceptional damage control result! Must have been perfect rolls - seems like a 1 in a 1000 result there.
Well done!

At this point it's just VPs. Can't imagine the Yorktown will see any fighting the remainder of the war. My CVs have taken a beating of late with the CV Bunker Hill hitting a mine. Though at this point CVs are hardly more than durable CVEs.

(in reply to Insano)
Post #: 420
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