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Runs so Sloooow - 2/10/2017 5:35:38 AM

tjfox1

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/16/2002
From: Ohio
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Game runs so slow as to make it unplayable. It's taking 5-10 seconds to move a unit(s) form one hex to the next. Is something being done to fix this? I've tried it on two different computers both of which have move then enough memory and processing power to run move involved games then this one with no problems. Is this problem being looked at to be fixed?

Love the game, just wish I could play it a a reasonable speed.

Post #: 1

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/10/2017 9:04:30 AM

Paullus

Posts: 1058
Joined: 6/9/2015
From: Sweden
Status: offline

As the game is very CPU intensive you need to free it up. Try this:
Turn off background programs that are not necessary.
Turn off Sound and Sound fx in game.

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(in reply to tjfox1)

Post #: 2

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/10/2017 8:07:04 PM

tjfox1

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/16/2002
From: Ohio
Status: offline

So a Win 10, i7-6500, 12GB machine with a "resting" CPU usage of 0-5% with the sound off should still have about a 3-5 second lag to move a tank from one hex to the next is normal?

Not asking for an immediate fix just wondering if this lag is being looked at for a future fix so there is hope for the future.

(in reply to Paullus)

Post #: 3

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/10/2017 8:19:42 PM

Gerry4321

Posts: 874
Joined: 3/24/2003
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I don't understand this. It's not a game like Combat Mission where you have all the intense graphics. Also I don't understand why LOS is checked on a pixel level. IIRC Woods terrain fills up a whole hex even if the depiction does not. So why not do center dot to center dot LOS checks as boardgame players do? I am probably missing something.

(in reply to tjfox1)

Post #: 4

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/10/2017 8:33:41 PM

Paullus

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From: Sweden
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This is something Peter is looking into every now and then to optimize. The LOS engine is very CPU heavy due to the complexity of the game. I'm using an AMD FX-8350 CPU and it runs fine. My Laptop on the other hand is experiencing this sometime but this is down to the energy saving options that is set to a Laptop. I haven't tried to work around these but I will do some tweaking tests. There are some settings to work with for the CPU and hyper threading for instance.

_____________________________

For my part, I shall do my duty as a general; I shall see to it that you are given the chance of a successful action. /Lucius Aemilius Paullus

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Post #: 5

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/10/2017 8:59:10 PM

dox44

Posts: 668
Joined: 5/7/2000
From: the woodlands, texas
Status: offline

i don't get it either as i run on W10 I3 4gb lenovo and have same delay...maybe 3 seconds.

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Post #: 6

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/10/2017 9:05:52 PM

Rosseau

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
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It's an odd thing. With i7 3.6 12 gigs have not seen delays on the second big CG Kursk scenario.

HPS Tigers Unleashed is a truly complex game that was virtually unplayable for years. But with the new beta, they finally figured it out - whatever the "it" was.

< Message edited by rosseau -- 2/10/2017 9:07:11 PM >

(in reply to dox44)

Post #: 7

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/10/2017 9:09:48 PM

UP844

Posts: 1662
Joined: 3/3/2016
From: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)
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While playing the Kursk campaign, I noticed the delay almost disappears on night turns (I suppose checking LOS with a 2-hex visibility is much easier). I also noticed, however, that the delay seems to increase as the game progresses (I will check with a chronometer).

The delay also appears to have increased from version 1.052. In previous versions significant delay only occurred when playing very large scenarios with long visibility ranges (e.g. Budapest).

My PC has an Intel Core i7 Q720 @1.60 GHz CPU, 16.0 GB RAM, a nVidia GeForce GT 230M video card and Windows 7 Home premium 64-bit OS: it should exceed all the technical requirements for ToTH, I believe.

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Post #: 8

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/10/2017 9:20:58 PM

CapnDarwin

Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline

Any time you have the need to loop though a number of iterations to determine something (LOS, taking a shot, what's in the hex, etc) you can slow any system to it's knees. Even in our game we have made a couple performance fixes in the last update (and this is 3 years post release) to speed up play and they center on these time consuming loops. A simple spotting loop has to check and see if every unit can see any other units. The more units and markers the longer that takes. It's a geometric progression. If a unit moves, recheck all. If a unit shoots, recheck all.

Development team size makes a difference too. More eyes on the code brings new thoughts on how to revise certain procedures. We are lucky that four of the six of us are programmers of various levels and specialties. Sounds like it is a one man show so you really need to give him some time to work through things and see what he can find.

As Paullus points out, check and see if there is something in your setup or hardware that might be causing a slow down. Could be as simple as having an optical mouse on a shiny surface.

I hope things get resolved soon and the game plays better for you.

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Post #: 9

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/10/2017 9:43:05 PM

dox44

Posts: 668
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From: the woodlands, texas
Status: offline

HPS. wow. still have my floppies of Panthers in the Shadows ? and Tigers in the Mists i think it was.

plus a ton of others...pack rat.

(in reply to Rosseau)

Post #: 10

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/10/2017 9:43:24 PM

Hailstone

Posts: 666
Joined: 1/19/2016
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

Watching idjester's twitch stream on the new DLC showed it slowing down. I was very interested to see if idjester would experience the slow down being that it's a large scenario. At first, I noticed it looked ok with units moving almost instantly but the delay was approaching 2 seconds when he was moving his tanks. You can even hear him verbally pushing his units with, "Keep going" as the tanks moved. You can also see the buttons on the right turning white when it slows also. You'll find when the scenario is started up again from a save it does not eliminate the delay so if you have a 5 second delay when you saved the game it will continue to have that delay when you get back to the game. The delay will continue to increase to at least 15 seconds before the game crashes. Watch the twitch feed today and pay attention to the movement speed as he continues into the scenario. Hopefully, he'll have a high end machine and it will go smoothly or it could be real bad.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 11

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/10/2017 9:46:30 PM

Rosseau

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Tigers Unleashed simulates a ludicrous number of factors well beyond taking a shot, etc. and reports each round hit to the user, and much more if you want.

Is it more fun than TotH? No! But I notice it reports using 6 threads and the main core, so almost maxing out the CPU's capabilities.

(in reply to CapnDarwin)

Post #: 12

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/11/2017 3:12:13 PM

dox44

Posts: 668
Joined: 5/7/2000
From: the woodlands, texas
Status: offline

campaign Psel has become so slow on day 2 that i've ceased playing the campaign.

going back to scenarios. i was enjoying campaign.

CPU is low so is RAM

maybe rethink LOS to something like Gerry commented...idk.

thanks,

(in reply to Rosseau)

Post #: 13

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/11/2017 3:30:16 PM

Paullus

Posts: 1058
Joined: 6/9/2015
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Try CG003 - Bled White. It has much more fire action that is faster

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For my part, I shall do my duty as a general; I shall see to it that you are given the chance of a successful action. /Lucius Aemilius Paullus

(in reply to dox44)

Post #: 14

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/11/2017 3:34:45 PM

dox44

Posts: 668
Joined: 5/7/2000
From: the woodlands, texas
Status: offline

will do. haven't tried that one.

thanks!

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Post #: 15

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/11/2017 3:41:53 PM

Hailstone

Posts: 666
Joined: 1/19/2016
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

The listed hardware requirements for the DLC are the same as the base TotH program which is where the problem is because the DLC is so much more demanding on the CPU. I suggest updating the required minimum hardware requirements to something more realistic to keep the DLC playable. My PC exceeds the minimum requirements for TotH and when playing the accompanying TotH scenarios it works just fine but the larger scenarios created by the community don't work so well. The DLC needs to have its own hardware requirements listed separate from the original base game.

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Post #: 16

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/11/2017 3:52:34 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
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From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
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I'm going to try turning some stuff off. If I remember, I'll post my findings....GP

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Post #: 17

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/11/2017 4:03:10 PM

baloo7777

Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline

I complained about this slowness a month ago and never really got a satisfactory answer. Very glad I can play smaller scenarios. I experienced the gradual slowing to 15 secs then crash in a community scenario on the D-Day landings. Very glad that someone else noticed and asked about it. Now I know not to bother purchasing the Kursk DLC as itt would be unplayable on my computer (i7 laptop with a 500GB SSD and 16GB RAM running WIN 10 64 bit).

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Post #: 18

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/11/2017 4:07:17 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
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From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
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Runs OK on my 5 year old Laptop. Some small issues but not bad. I just set to window mode and turned of LOS tool and sound FX. Scenario is open and my laptop doesn't sound like it is going to take off

....GP

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Post #: 19

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/12/2017 9:46:05 PM

dave68124

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Game has become almost unplayable. I haven't played in awhile and with the Kursk DLC I thought I would give it another try. First few turns of the first CG played fine, but eventually it got to the point where it took 2 1/2 minutes to move a single unit outside of sight of any enemy unit. Turned off the sound and LOS as suggested above. I even saved and restarted the game thinking maybe the virtual memory had clogged up, but nope.

Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit
Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4800MQ CPU @ 2.70GHz, 2701 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
32 GB of RAM
64 GB of Virtual RAM

I can run the most graphics intensive games out there on this rig, and feeling like this game is a complete waste of money. It still doesn't support wide screen (2560 x 1080) which is more of an irritant than unworkable that I have to adjust the screen to play the game. However, it taking 2 or 3 minutes (Yes, I timed it) to move a unit 4 hexes is completely unacceptable.

And no, we shouldn't have to shut off everything in the background to make the game work. Running virus software and the other processes should have already been taken into account as it is pretty standard these days.
I really hope they get this fixed as it is a great game, but no amount of greatness makes up for a poor performance.

Lastly, maybe others aren't having issues, but it seems like enough people with rigs that are more than able to handle the game are having issues, so hopefully someone is paying attention.

(in reply to btd64)

Post #: 20

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/12/2017 9:54:28 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
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From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

Runs OK on my 5 year old Laptop. Some small issues but not bad. I just set to window mode and turned of LOS tool and sound FX. Scenario is open and my laptop doesn't sound like it is going to take off....GP

I spoke to soon. I never saw a call for a beta test either. That would of discovered the problem before release....GP

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Post #: 21

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/13/2017 12:16:23 PM

TomBombadil711

Posts: 342
Joined: 10/25/2005
From: Germany
Status: offline

First campaign becomes unplayable after 13 turns, money seems to be waisted. Back to scenarios. What a pity!

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Post #: 22

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/13/2017 1:47:45 PM

Dietrich53

Posts: 60
Joined: 2/12/2016
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I have about a 3-4 sec delay when mowing at daylight (night is fine). I have a iMac 3.2 GHz i5, 32 GB and run Windows 7 under Parallel Desktop while having programs open on the OSX side. It is playable, but somewhat inconvenient.
One area of streamlining is the Advance Phase. Since nobody is allowed to shoot there is no reasoon for LOS checking. This whole section can be taking out of the code.

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Post #: 23

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/13/2017 3:16:52 PM

Peter Fisla

Posts: 2503
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dietrich53

I have about a 3-4 sec delay when mowing at daylight (night is fine). I have a iMac 3.2 GHz i5, 32 GB and run Windows 7 under Parallel Desktop while having programs open on the OSX side. It is playable, but somewhat inconvenient.
One area of streamlining is the Advance Phase. Since nobody is allowed to shoot there is no reasoon for LOS checking. This whole section can be taking out of the code.

A unit can move in Advance Segment, hence it can discover new enemy hex so yes I do need to check for LOS.

TotH is a single core application, the game doesn't take advantage of multi core CPU. When I started writing the game in 2006, I didn't have multi-core CPU. This is something I would like to address in the future, however there is no way I can make substantial changes to the code as that would be very labour intensive as well as I do not want to take a chance to make the game engine unstable by possibly introducing bugs in the process. The LOS and pathfinding functions are very CPU demanding (never mind the AI processing on top), more units on larger maps will be very CPU demanding. Also, these two functions are very complicated/detailed and I decided from the beginning to write them properly without taking shortcuts. I figured, I write the functions once and let the hardware catch up. It's extremely difficult to write these two complex functions and then come back to the code two/three years later and remember what I have done in the past and make the functionality more detailed...this type of process is prone to messing things up and introduces defects - I wanted to avoid this.

I can't off-load this processing to GPU because there are so many different versions of GPU and I'm only one developer.

< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 2/13/2017 3:20:02 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/13/2017 3:20:14 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
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From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
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Why no beta test?....GP

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Post #: 25

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/13/2017 3:21:52 PM

Peter Fisla

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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

Why no beta test?....GP

There was beta test, and before that I have tested the game engine for about 1.5 year. The game engine is very complex and of course things slow down when you have more units and larger maps.

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Post #: 26

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/13/2017 3:24:04 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

Why no beta test?....GP

There was beta test, and before that I have tested the game engine for about 1.5 year. The game engine is very complex and of course things slow down when you have more units and larger maps.

The reason I ask is I didn't see it on the Development site....GP

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RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/13/2017 3:46:37 PM

dox44

Posts: 668
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From: the woodlands, texas
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well i'm guessing the campaign runs well off your (paulus/peter) machines?

just curious what are you two using?

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Post #: 28

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/13/2017 3:52:26 PM

Peter Fisla

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Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: casebier

well i'm guessing the campaign runs well off your (paulus/peter) machines?

just curious what are you two using?

Intel i7 6850K CPU, ASUS X-99 Deluxe II motherboard, ASUS 1080 GTX video card, 64GB of Ram, Win7 64bit - this is my development machine

< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 2/13/2017 3:53:09 PM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Runs so Sloooow - 2/13/2017 3:56:48 PM

btd64

Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

quote:

ORIGINAL: casebier

well i'm guessing the campaign runs well off your (paulus/peter) machines?

just curious what are you two using?

Intel i7 6850K CPU, ASUS X-99 Deluxe II motherboard, ASUS 1080 GTX video card, 64GB of Ram, Win7 64bit - this is my development machine

Now I understand why the expansion is trying to KILL my computer. I'm very disappointed....GP

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Slitherine

Runs so Sloooow