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The future - 2/12/2017 4:08:27 PM   
scaz


Posts: 50
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		I was wondering what the future of TotH was? Will there be new nationalities released? Will they be separate game or DLC? I'd personally like to see the French (1940) and the Italians.

Also, will we eventually make it to the Pacific and the desert?

Thanks for any input.
Post #: 1
RE: The future - 2/12/2017 4:46:02 PM   
Paullus

 

Posts: 1058
Joined: 6/9/2015
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		There will be more nationalities added through expansions/DLCs to the existing game. Peter will add more features through Updates first and then turn to add more nationalities. I would guess that early war French and British units would be a good path to go but that would also the Italians be. That would make the desert possible. The Pacific would be in a more distant future.

_____________________________

For my part, I shall do my duty as a general; I shall see to it that you are given the chance of a successful action. /Lucius Aemilius Paullus

(in reply to scaz)
Post #: 2
RE: The future - 2/12/2017 6:43:23 PM   
LN59


Posts: 204
Joined: 1/28/2016
From: France
Status: offline 		Hi, Paullus!

Just a suggestion that would (IMO) greatly improve players' comfort and the interest of the hesitating one's in purchasing ToTH.

It's about LOS CHECKING. Please, see some other players' same request below my own message.

Rather seizing coordinates by the Menu - the LOS TOOL does mask the map; I cannot see it NOR the hexes' coordinates,

having to write them on a paper leaf each time - Why not a MOUSE process? Something like:

- step one: <Alt> <Left-Click> on the hex (unit's empty or not) the player wants to see FROM,

- step two: <Alt> <Right-Click> on the hex (unit's empty) the player wants to see INTO,

- result: a pop up window with a message like "IT DOES EXIST LOS" or "IT DOES'NT EXIST LOS" "FROM (X0,Y0) TO (X1,Y1)".

- Eventually, the reason for the "NO LOS" result; "Woods" or "Building" or "Blind hex due to # Level", etc.

Thank You, and Good Evening in Sweden!

Lilian

-------------------------------------------

NEED FOR A MORE “USER FRIENDLY” LOS CHECKER

Maybe enter hexes to be checked with mouse clicks on map.
Or have all hex coordinates popup on map so that you see what coordinates to enter into LOS checker.
GeneralChaos - 3/3/2016 - Post #: 82

Line of sight check by stretching a line on the map. Or, pull up the line of sight tool and click on the two hexes on the map to check LOS. The LOS Check window appears to be modal. I cannot move the mouse cursor over hexes on the map to get the x, y coordinates while the window is active. Need to memorize or write down the coordinates before pulling up the window.
Snowbird - 3/5/2016 - Post #: 88

Better LOS checker *****
Pupikiza - 3/28/2016 - Post #: 163

A LOS tool you could click on from hex and then to hex and it would draw a line and tell you if it was good or not would be great as well
Kodiak - 4/7/2016 - Post #: 182

Could you please make the LOS tool usable? Instead of having to remember 2 sets of coordinates (because the LOS tool is modal and I can't even click the hexes to get their coordinates while I'm in the dialog), let me just click on the two hexes.
iPhoneAppz - 11/9/2016 - Post #: 236


_____________________________

"On ne passe pas !"
The French soldiers' motto (Verdun, 1916)

"One does not pass! The Covid-19 even less."
Years 2020, 2021 motto, 2022 distant memory

(in reply to Paullus)
Post #: 3
RE: The future - 2/12/2017 7:12:21 PM   
Paullus

 

Posts: 1058
Joined: 6/9/2015
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Thank you Lilian for your interesting suggestions. I'll sirtenly talk them over with Peter.

A very good evening to you too in France
Jorgen

_____________________________

For my part, I shall do my duty as a general; I shall see to it that you are given the chance of a successful action. /Lucius Aemilius Paullus

(in reply to LN59)
Post #: 4
RE: The future - 2/13/2017 10:32:09 PM   
rixtertech

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 12/30/2001
Status: offline 		Predictions From the Twilight Zone:

LOS checking will become a mouse-clickable process that requires no manual entry of coordinates and that actually makes sense.

The entire ridiculous tank-starting, tank-transmission and tank-steering process will be thrown out, as being an impediment to game play. An automatic dice roll for break downs and miring will take it's place, and we'll all have more time and patience to devote to other more important things.

I love my old copy of ASL, and TOTH means a lot to me, but the tank thing really needs to go. It is complexity and fragility without reward, and could profitably be replaced by an "am I going to execute or break down" dice roll.


(in reply to Paullus)
Post #: 5
RE: The future - 2/14/2017 7:04:29 PM   
rsallen64


Posts: 172
Joined: 6/15/2009
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I agree with the tank-starting recommendation. As a former army tanker, I can tell you that I doubt anyone would be in a combat situation with their engine off. I get that it's quieter, but it leaves you too vulnerable if you have to maneuver.

_____________________________

Desert War 1940-1942 Beta Tester
Agressors: Ancient Rome Beta Tester

"The greatest and noblest pleasure which men can have in this world is to discover new truths; and the next is to shake off old prejudices." Frederick the Great

(in reply to rixtertech)
Post #: 6
RE: The future - 2/14/2017 7:43:56 PM   
Dietrich53

 

Posts: 60
Joined: 2/12/2016
Status: offline 		Istn't the "stop-start" not more a question of being in motion or not in motion for the targeting/hit procedure?

(in reply to rsallen64)
Post #: 7
RE: The future - 2/14/2017 9:12:12 PM   
LN59


Posts: 204
Joined: 1/28/2016
From: France
Status: offline 		I agree with Dietrich53's remark.

Far more a matter of breakdown's risk, it was a real constraint for armored crews! Because WWII tanks were not as accurate, effective and flexible as our modern MBTs are (like M1 Abrams, Leopard II or Char Leclerc) which are "MOVE AND FIRE" capable. It rather was a question of an alternating choice (?) between "MOVE" to the Safety of Cover-Hull down/to a Place for a good LOS/Shot <OR> "STOP(*) AND THEN FIRE" with a +/- good result, crew's skill definite.

I guess Peter's choice is totally and historically legitimate.

My father (born 1929) used to be a tank leader in 1949-1950 (Sherman M10 Tank Destroyer "Wolverine", 2e Régiment de Hussards, Orléans). He tells me forty years ago how they had to CONSTANTLY manage between Movement and Fire. There were no Gyro-stabilizers and Fire Control System nor Fire and Forget ammo at that time, not so far from WWII era. Their field training rule was: "First shot MUST BE the good shot. Second shot from the same place at the very high risk to be seen... Third shot from the same place: you're dead!"

(*) IMO: STOP is for Movement Interruption, not essentially for Shuting the engine Off, but rather a way for GAINING ACCURACY (in game's term).

--- I do apologize for my rough English! ---

< Message edited by LN59 -- 2/20/2017 10:18:04 PM >

_____________________________

"On ne passe pas !"
The French soldiers' motto (Verdun, 1916)

"One does not pass! The Covid-19 even less."
Years 2020, 2021 motto, 2022 distant memory

(in reply to Dietrich53)
Post #: 8
RE: The future - 2/15/2017 12:47:40 AM   
idjester

 

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/22/2011
Status: offline 		I will now explain the whole stop - start thing for those that are unfamiliar to ASL which is very similar to TOTH.

The start process isn't just stopping and starting the vehicle, its more engaging the engine putting it into gear and the like. In ASL terms it wouldn't be accurate for a vehicle at a dead stop to instantly go from one hex to another hex. The start mechanic is to allow the defensive player an opportunity to target an AFV before it starts moving. When you try and hit a moving vehicle it is very hard and you take a lot of penalties for this. So again the start mechanic is to allow the defensive player to get an attack without those huge penalties while the tank is just starting moving and is slow.

In ASL once a vehicle is in motion (the AFV moved into another hex) those penalties will apply until the end of the turn. So by moving into an adjacent hex your vehicle is now considered a moving target and any attack at it will receive this penalty. So the start movement point simulates the opportunity for the defensive player to get a shot at the AFV before it becomes a moving target.

The stop mechanic does 2 things, #1 it will determine whether your AFV ends its movement phase in motion (note this is different then moving)... motion it determined at the end of your movement phase dependent on whether you used a stop movement point or not. If you end your movement phase without spending a stop movement point you will stay in "motion" until your next movement phase in which you will start that movement phase moving (hence you do not need to spend a start movement point.) #2 if you spend a stop movement point and attack (in ASL) you will not take the MASSIVE penalty for shooting while moving.

This can be very confusing for you non ASL players and the terminology used to express a AFV that is moving can be very difficult to understand. I did a whole tutorial video a few weeks ago on my youtube channel that will help you understand moving, motion, stopped and non-stopped vehicles. If you want to learn more please check that video out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZofccd6x2g

Hope that helps clear up any confusion about WHY there is a stop button and a start button. Once you know why there are there they make total sense and they need to be there to be complete.



< Message edited by idjester -- 2/15/2017 12:50:44 AM >

(in reply to LN59)
Post #: 9
RE: The future - 2/15/2017 7:02:02 AM   
LN59


Posts: 204
Joined: 1/28/2016
From: France
Status: offline 		Clear and detailed explanations, Idjester!
+1
Lilian

_____________________________

"On ne passe pas !"
The French soldiers' motto (Verdun, 1916)

"One does not pass! The Covid-19 even less."
Years 2020, 2021 motto, 2022 distant memory

(in reply to idjester)
Post #: 10
RE: The future - 2/15/2017 11:55:57 AM   
asl3d


Posts: 6531
Joined: 2/6/2017
Status: offline 		LN59, I really liked the reference to your father's experience with the TD Volverine after the WWII.

However, Idjester is very precise in his explanation of the "In Motion" and "Stopped" ASL markers.

These markers are an acceptable solution for the superb Advanced Squad Leader board game.

Now, I think that the computer game designer, Peter Fisla, has been influenced by his great experience in ASL and has respected his operational logic.

Actually, I think it's not necessary to click on "start" and "stop" every time we want to move a Vehicle. The computer does not need to be reminded that the Vehicle is stationary throughout the Turn of Player or if it has moved. The AI already know this and will apply the corresponding "DRM".

Having to click always is unnecessary and makes the game less dynamic (another issue is whether to include a marker, as in ASL, on the Vehicle counter to inform and remember to player who the Vehicle has moved during the Turn of Player) .

Those of us who have played ASL are always comparing TotH with ASL, and we always like to see that both games are "equal", when we will all agree that it is not strictly necessary.

It is the legacy of a game that has 40 years of history and validity.

_____________________________

Semper fidelis

(in reply to scaz)
Post #: 11
RE: The future - 2/15/2017 10:29:20 PM   
LN59


Posts: 204
Joined: 1/28/2016
From: France
Status: offline 		Hi, Asl3d!

I do agree to your observations but I do not have enough skills in programming such a complex tactical warfare simulation nor in practising ASL: my own remarks were only historically based, so let me put my trust in Peter's experience to design the most accurate way to digitally render that era's constraints, which are yet (IMO) rather well recreated in TotH. Too much clicks when managing tanks' movement? It's possible. For now, I'm more satisfied with Peter's solution.

Post scriptum (february 17th, 2017) In fact, I guess we were sharing the same opinion, simply expressed from different approaches. Not true? Stimulating forum, isn't it?

Lilian

< Message edited by LN59 -- 2/21/2017 6:48:36 AM >

_____________________________

"On ne passe pas !"
The French soldiers' motto (Verdun, 1916)

"One does not pass! The Covid-19 even less."
Years 2020, 2021 motto, 2022 distant memory

(in reply to asl3d)
Post #: 12
RE: The future - 2/19/2017 9:49:41 AM   
asl3d


Posts: 6531
Joined: 2/6/2017
Status: offline 		Of course.

It's clear that Peter has done a great job.

It is very easy for me to criticize something after it has been done.

In fact, I sure that all the observations that are made in this Forum are oriented towards a future revision of the game, "TotH_v2". I think we're all trying to help Peter to perfect the game, as long as it's possible.

Poor Peter !!. He does not know the work he has ahead of him.


_____________________________

Semper fidelis

(in reply to LN59)
Post #: 13
RE: The future - 2/20/2017 10:33:08 PM   
LN59


Posts: 204
Joined: 1/28/2016
From: France
Status: offline 		Asl3d, I'm totally sharing your opinion.

One more time:

- My warmest Congratulations for the superb graphic mod you have done! -

Very fine work. Very fine words, too...

+2

Greetings from France.

Lilian




_____________________________

"On ne passe pas !"
The French soldiers' motto (Verdun, 1916)

"One does not pass! The Covid-19 even less."
Years 2020, 2021 motto, 2022 distant memory

(in reply to asl3d)
Post #: 14
RE: The future - 2/21/2017 12:10:08 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		Getting rid of the start/stop feature sounds like a great way to keep the action flowing with as few clicks as possible. I picture myself in the tank pushing the start button

(in reply to LN59)
Post #: 15
RE: The future - 2/21/2017 1:53:49 AM   
dox44

 

Posts: 668
Joined: 5/7/2000
From: the woodlands, texas
Status: offline 		and possibly distancing yourself from that other game but i like the start/stop button even in the other game that
really is 'the game' so i thank Peter for even attempting what he's doing cause he's got to be getting 'hell or a little
piece of it' from both sides of the table.

so here's to Peter!

you really have done a wonderful thing.



(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 16
What about Displaying Hexes' Coordinates within the Edi... - 2/23/2017 2:07:57 PM   
LN59


Posts: 204
Joined: 1/28/2016
From: France
Status: offline 		Hi Peter! Paullus Hej!

Rather requiring new and complex features to be set into the gameplay, like Smoke, Hexes' Edges, Barbed Wire, Mines & so on
- I would obviously still be very pleased to see them implemented a bit more later (not too far ahead)! - my short experience
in creating scenarios (CB001-Tula & CB002-Boislonde) makes me feel it would be more effective in HELPING DESIGNERS with some
handy EDITOR's features. Please, see also my post upon LOS CHECKING into "The Future" thread (2/12/2017 8:43:23 PM #:3).

For the moment, my sole question is:

"What about Displaying Hexes' Coordinates within the Editor only, in a first time?"
It would be particularly justified when we're using the OOB's tools that permit us to manage:

* Deployment,
* Reinforcements,
* Units' Order to <Defend hex(x,y)> when a Side's Attitude is <HOLD>?

A toggling process could (IMO) be easy (enough?) to design.

For instance:
- Function Key <F9>: would TOGGLE the Hexgrid's Display with the Hexes' Coordinates ON,
- Function Key <F10>: would TOGGLE it OFF.
Any other solution, like a <Menu> Function and/or a <Button> on the Icons' Bar would be fine!

I would be very glad to get your opinion, when you'll get enough time for that answer!
Friendliest Greetings from France.
Lilian

Happy Birthday, TotH!


< Message edited by LN59 -- 2/24/2017 5:52:40 AM >

_____________________________

"On ne passe pas !"
The French soldiers' motto (Verdun, 1916)

"One does not pass! The Covid-19 even less."
Years 2020, 2021 motto, 2022 distant memory

(in reply to dox44)
Post #: 17
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