LCU movement issue

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Tech Support >> LCU movement issue

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LCU movement issue - 2/15/2017 12:58:56 AM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
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I'm hoping michaelm is still providing support for game issues?

I have a situation in a PBEM where units stacked in the same hex were ordered to follow one leading LCU. The turn before the expected movement, the leading unit changed direction starting a new path to the original destination hex and a number of LCU's followed it. Other units that were ordered to follow the same lead unit completed the movement as expected and did not follow the lead unit anymore.
Can I provide the save file to see if the issue can be corrected, explained or if a change of movement mode might correct the issue? Please let me know if this can be looked at.

Thanks.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

Post #: 1

RE: LCU movement issue - 2/15/2017 3:10:08 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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Was the destination hex more than 1 hex away?

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 2

RE: LCU movement issue - 2/15/2017 3:54:53 PM

RichardAckermann

Posts: 271
Joined: 12/4/2015
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That does not matter. I had this behavior often. It seems to be caused when some units can move faster along another route. I was told it is a know issue with units and the "follow" command.

I once moved adjacent NE, but upon execution, the units went east heading NW then.
This was caused by a road leading over east to NW.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 3

RE: LCU movement issue - 2/15/2017 4:19:49 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Was the destination hex more than 1 hex away?

It was a one hex move. Wooded hex side to wooded hex side. I know there can be problems with movement when more hexes are involved and the 'follow' command is used. In this case, and considering the hexes involved, I did not foresee an issue and everything looked like it was going to move as expected. I'm not sure anything can be done about the movement, but what is surprising is the fact the force was split up and some went with the lead unit, others did not. I've never seen that before.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 2/15/2017 4:20:23 PM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 4

RE: LCU movement issue - 2/15/2017 6:04:43 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

That does not matter. I had this behavior often. It seems to be caused when some units can move faster along another route. I was told it is a know issue with units and the "follow" command.

I once moved adjacent NE, but upon execution, the units went east heading NW then.
This was caused by a road leading over east to NW.

Actually, it does matter. If you're moving more than 1 hex at a time, the game engine will calculate the fastest path and attempt to take that. In 1-hex moves, the fastest move into an adjacent hex is almost always through the shared hex side (there are few exceptions, and given the hexes none of them apply here). In this case, they actually moved AWAY from the destination. There's no reason a unit should ever, on a single hex move, move in a direction other than that indicated they are marching in. If the unit info screen says 45 miles marched to the east and the next hex is their destination, they'd damn well better be moving east next turn (unless the enemy closes the hex side first, which we know didn't happen here).

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Was the destination hex more than 1 hex away?

It was a one hex move. Wooded hex side to wooded hex side. I know there can be problems with movement when more hexes are involved and the 'follow' command is used. In this case, and considering the hexes involved, I did not foresee an issue and everything looked like it was going to move as expected. I'm not sure anything can be done about the movement, but what is surprising is the fact the force was split up and some went with the lead unit, others did not. I've never seen that before.

I haven't seen or heard of this either. On multiple hex moves, yes - but if the full stack was following 1 unit, I've never seen them split either. They all go the "faulty" direction. Can you verify that all were on follow? I assume they were, but maybe they weren't?

(in reply to RichardAckermann)

Post #: 5

RE: LCU movement issue - 2/15/2017 7:49:26 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I haven't seen or heard of this either. On multiple hex moves, yes - but if the full stack was following 1 unit, I've never seen them split either. They all go the "faulty" direction. Can you verify that all were on follow? I assume they were, but maybe they weren't?

Yes, I went through the previous turn and checked the units, all were set to follow the lead LCU.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 6

RE: LCU movement issue - 2/16/2017 7:55:58 AM

RichardAckermann

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Joined: 12/4/2015
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I had such behavior quite often on 1 hex direct follow moves. ~8 to 10 times in my current game vs AI. I was not under the impression that travel length does massively impact this kind of LCU path switching. A screenshot of the terrain might help understand what happend here.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 7

RE: LCU movement issue - 2/16/2017 4:09:44 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

I had such behavior quite often on 1 hex direct follow moves. ~8 to 10 times in my current game vs AI. I was not under the impression that travel length does massively impact this kind of LCU path switching. A screenshot of the terrain might help understand what happend here.

The way he was trying to go was 1 hex SE, and there was a trail that direction. His units ended up moving NE, along a major road, which then put them 2 hexes from the destination hex and in order to get there they would need to move east through clear terrain (but no road) and then SW on another major road. The trail movement rate is faster by a number of days. Lots faster.

(in reply to RichardAckermann)

Post #: 8

RE: LCU movement issue - 2/16/2017 6:57:17 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

I had such behavior quite often on 1 hex direct follow moves. ~8 to 10 times in my current game vs AI. I was not under the impression that travel length does massively impact this kind of LCU path switching. A screenshot of the terrain might help understand what happend here.

The way he was trying to go was 1 hex SE, and there was a trail that direction. His units ended up moving NE, along a major road, which then put them 2 hexes from the destination hex and in order to get there they would need to move east through clear terrain (but no road) and then SW on another major road. The trail movement rate is faster by a number of days. Lots faster.

There are a number of places where the movement AI goes off the intended path (like between Akyab and the crossroads northwest of Prome). I think the AI gives an affinity for good roads to armoured units and perhaps some artillery that overrides the follow order but should not affect the order to direct march to the next hex. I never use the follow order - I use "Set All to March" to get everyone underway and monitor movement rates. If a unit is getting too far ahead I set it to Rest mode to let other units catch up. I generally get to the border with all units within one day's movement of the hex. Unless it is a river crossing, it doesn't matter which mode they are in when the cross into enemy territory - the enemy cannot attack them that turn anyway so just set them to combat mode after they arrive.

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 2/16/2017 6:59:09 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 9

RE: LCU movement issue - 2/16/2017 7:46:26 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

I had such behavior quite often on 1 hex direct follow moves. ~8 to 10 times in my current game vs AI. I was not under the impression that travel length does massively impact this kind of LCU path switching. A screenshot of the terrain might help understand what happend here.

The way he was trying to go was 1 hex SE, and there was a trail that direction. His units ended up moving NE, along a major road, which then put them 2 hexes from the destination hex and in order to get there they would need to move east through clear terrain (but no road) and then SW on another major road. The trail movement rate is faster by a number of days. Lots faster.

There are a number of places where the movement AI goes off the intended path (like between Akyab and the crossroads northwest of Prome). I think the AI gives an affinity for good roads to armoured units and perhaps some artillery that overrides the follow order but should not affect the order to direct march to the next hex. I never use the follow order - I use "Set All to March" to get everyone underway and monitor movement rates. If a unit is getting too far ahead I set it to Rest mode to let other units catch up. I generally get to the border with all units within one day's movement of the hex. Unless it is a river crossing, it doesn't matter which mode they are in when the cross into enemy territory - the enemy cannot attack them that turn anyway so just set them to combat mode after they arrive.

This way can work, but it's difficult to synchronize your arrival. If you're worried about defending from an attack by the hex's defenders, it's not a big deal. But if you are chasing the enemy (in general even if not in that instant) then you want all of your troops to arrive at the same time so that they can all attack the next turn. Unless you want them to pursue...

Yes, the engine will send armoured units along major roads oftentimes as it will be faster than moving through terrain, but in this case the armoured units were set to follow the infantry. The infantry should move first in that case, and the armoured units should follow - not the other way around.

Also, given the presence of a trail and that in order to follow the major road into the target hex the armor would have to go 2 hexes NE, then 1 hex E, then 2 hexes SW... that's 5 hexes of movement compared to just 1 on a trail. I'm not sure the major road was faster in that case at all.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 10

RE: LCU movement issue - 2/16/2017 9:38:52 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
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It looks like I was able to resolve the issue.

Going back to the turn just before the movement was to take place, I changed each unit to combat mode and selected the destination hex for each. This removed the follow command and kept the distance already travelled intact. It also indicated the units were using 'direct' movement to the destination hex. Erik just ran the turn and it appears all my units arrived in the intended hex.

I'd suggest for those that like to use the follow command, as I do, just monitor your one hex moves and the turn before the units arrive manually set the destination hex to avoid what happened to me. I hope this will help other players who have encountered this issue and with a little diligence and a few clicks, your units will make that one hex move without something funky happening.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 2/16/2017 9:39:54 PM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 11

RE: LCU movement issue - 2/17/2017 12:23:43 AM

rustysi

Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

Sorry Guys, I will have drop out for awhile due to other commitments.

This was posted by Michaelm on January 3rd. Haven't seen anything to the contrary and don't know how long 'awhile' will be, but there it is.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 12