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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons

 
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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/23/2017 5:37:10 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Magwe's Air Defense. All oil and refinery operating at 100%.

1100 guns, too.




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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/23/2017 5:48:04 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		I have been told that 3 ships is the optimum number of ships in an ASW task force. The fourth ship is just diminishing returns. Heck with that, I am going to stuff four of these bad boys together and kill me some subs!




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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/23/2017 5:52:17 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
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Status: offline 		The range on the Type 2 dc looks like its effective in to the earth's mantle or thereabouts.

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Post #: 2463
RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/23/2017 6:05:31 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		I have today, tomorrow and all day Saturday to work on the turn.

Plan on fine tuning ship builds.

Pilot training.

Ship upgrades.

Building lcu back together again.

Shipping resources, fuel and oil.

Ground combat planning.

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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/23/2017 6:07:54 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

The range on the Type 2 dc looks like its effective in to the earth's mantle or thereabouts.


Allies have one that goes to 800! But it is the best Japan gets. The mortar gets a few shots in,but usually never hits...but will cause light damage.




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/23/2017 6:08:54 PM >

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Post #: 2465
RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/23/2017 6:09:31 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I think it's that the 4th ship is just wasted, not so much diminishing returns as no return whatsoever. The 4th ship could be a different ship in every action, of course, so including a 4th ship could keep others in the TF in ammo supply for additional attacks. Or it might night, depending on the whims of RNGesus.

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Post #: 2466
RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/23/2017 10:22:23 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		At Singers, the mechanics and pilots are overjoyed.

The new fighters are loaded onto awaiting rail cars and are off to a base north, near the front where they will be assembled, and pilots acquainted with the new plane before sweeping into Silchar for trial by combat.






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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/23/2017 10:24:12 PM   
Lowpe


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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/23/2017 10:28:10 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
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Status: offline 		SR3 goodness here!

Fortunately, those Japanese crews know how to load the trains, and when the planes arrive at their new base, the repairs won't take so long as long if there is adequate mechanics available.






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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/23/2017 10:52:42 PM   
Lowpe


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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/23/2017 11:19:47 PM   
Lowpe


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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/23/2017 11:28:56 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
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Status: offline 		The Frank has pretty good durability.

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Post #: 2472
RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 12:02:20 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The Frank has pretty good durability.


Japan maxes out at 30.

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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 1:06:48 AM   
Insano

 

Posts: 228
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From: Joplin, Missouri
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Fleet Carrier builds:







Lowpe, how many Naval Shipyard points do you have producing? I see you are playing a mod where Shinano is a Taiho class. Does that mean Yamato and Musashi don't exist? Naval acceleration looks pretty good on carriers - just wondering how you are managing with all the SST builds as well.

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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 1:43:23 AM   
bigred


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Frank versus the nasty Allied fighters...




The ki-84r is a monster.

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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 2:00:33 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Insano


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Fleet Carrier builds:







Lowpe, how many Naval Shipyard points do you have producing? I see you are playing a mod where Shinano is a Taiho class. Does that mean Yamato and Musashi don't exist? Naval acceleration looks pretty good on carriers - just wondering how you are managing with all the SST builds as well.


Naval shipyards at 1540 with 10 in the pool...need way more but I need the Carriers. I want most of them prior to the B29's showing up which I will get.

I am not really managing it that well...no super battleships of course, and many lesser warships are delayed with the exception of some light cruisers the cream of the destroyers and subchaser and e's. The RO subs are halted...I recently had to do that, and I also recently slowed Shinano and Katsuragi back to normal but they are due in 14 and 36 days. Just in time for when the Hiryu and Soryu finish their upgrades making for a complete KB...the first time since the California debacle.

The third SST is almost finished, and 5 finish in the next 60 days. I have both active SST in the Rabaul area (or headed there), but I am leery of using them in such sub infested waters. May send them to Sorong. You really need to think carefully how to use them...but I love them.

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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 2:02:49 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

The Frank has pretty good durability.


Japan maxes out at 30.


There are a few past thirty, but nobody normally sees them: Ki94II; Sam J, The Dinah Fighter (which I used a fair bit last game) but that is twin engines so doesn't count.

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Post #: 2477
RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 2:05:10 AM   
Lowpe


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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 4:15:42 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Should the KB upgrade to the 5c...or should half of it upgrade to the 5c and use those squadrons as defensive CAP where the heavier firepower and fighting against escorts helps offset the speed disadvantage and use the agile fast 5 or slightly better gunned but less agile 5b as escorts?

Or will the armor give the 5c more staying power as an escort?

I can remember Spidery pondering this question with regard to the 5 and 5b, and he didn't like his answer as his Carriers got crushed at Tjilatjap in 43.

Finally, the shorter range of the 5c really crushed me in the last game as the escorts simply didn't fly.





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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/24/2017 4:17:04 AM >

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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 9:53:42 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		I've always found the 5c to be better as CAP and escort due to the armor. It's tough. I've never had escort not fly if set with drop tanks.

One key is to rest pilots and airframes for days before a battle if they're going to be flying a few days at max range. I've always thought the 5b was better than the 5, but that seems dubious looking at the stats. Only the one better CL gun and the climb, manoeuvre and speed are not as good as the 5.

For you at this point I'd do a combo of the 5 and 5c, and worry about converting all if you don't get the A6M8 before you have to make that choice!

Be good to do some tests on these versions since we all HAVE to use them for most of the war. See which do better as escorts, which do better as CAP, etc.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/24/2017 9:54:38 AM >

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Post #: 2480
RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 12:54:25 PM   
Lowpe


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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 12:59:49 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I've always found the 5c to be better as CAP and escort due to the armor. It's tough. I've never had escort not fly if set with drop tanks.

One key is to rest pilots and airframes for days before a battle if they're going to be flying a few days at max range. I've always thought the 5b was better than the 5, but that seems dubious looking at the stats. Only the one better CL gun and the climb, manoeuvre and speed are not as good as the 5.

For you at this point I'd do a combo of the 5 and 5c, and worry about converting all if you don't get the A6M8 before you have to make that choice!

Be good to do some tests on these versions since we all HAVE to use them for most of the war. See which do better as escorts, which do better as CAP, etc.


All good points, one thing I recall is that Alfred said not to rely upon escorting fighters with drop tanks...

In thinking about it, I believe I will prioritize land sentai first for the A6M5c conversion. The Allies are flexing their bombing muscles, and at present there is not better anti-bomber fighter than the 5c. I already have one squadron at Rabaul, and I am pondering where to upgrade the second.

Both of these fighters are available, and there are 30 or so Georges in the pool, but no sentai can fly them.





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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 1:45:31 PM   
Andav

 

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quote:

All good points, one thing I recall is that Alfred said not to rely upon escorting fighters with drop tanks...


When in doubt, LRCAP provided you can. It is one reason, although everyone hates them, building Oscars throughout the war is beneficial.

For me in the 5 vs 5c choice, armor is the real tipping point. I am not sure I built any 5bs because I wanted the 5c and with research it was easy to advance.

Wa

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Post #: 2483
RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 2:03:36 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav

quote:

All good points, one thing I recall is that Alfred said not to rely upon escorting fighters with drop tanks...


When in doubt, LRCAP provided you can. It is one reason, although everyone hates them, building Oscars throughout the war is beneficial.

For me in the 5 vs 5c choice, armor is the real tipping point. I am not sure I built any 5bs because I wanted the 5c and with research it was easy to advance.

Wa



Yep, LRCAP is good, but not for CV clashes. Where my ground bombers go...there is always some Oscars on LRcap.

I have built 1070 A6M5 and 390 A6M5b and 50 A6M5c so far....I, like you, skipped the 5 in my last game in my hurry to get the 5c, but the 5 and 5b are worthy planes. Good sweepers even now, range, cannons, agile....knock on wood.

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Post #: 2484
RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 5:58:45 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Bombers in Burma...

Allies have been pretty conservative in their plane usage, and so have I in trying to counter them. We both sweep, with perhaps Japan sweeping more, but odds are neither side has been flying CAP except at large bases/important areas.

I really don't mind his bombers nailing the troops, if, and it is a big if, I can ambush those bombers at a later date. So far, all my ambushes have failed here in Burma -- but it is only a matter of time. I got quite a few licks in in India I recall.

There was no sweep, no LRCAP.

I stung the bombers fairly hard over in Canada early on when he flew into strong CAP...and I think he has learned those lessons and avoids Magwe which he hasn't tried even once.

Since the bombers have flown 3 days in a row, I suspect they will stand down, and perhaps he will sweep Shwebo with corsairs. But, I have decided to put up 3 sentai of fighters there. 2 Tonies and 1 Tojo IIc. Down low and layered. Even if he sweeps they should give a good account...and if the bombers come in sans escorts, he should really pay the price.

I have plenty of Tonies, and need to use them, and trading even 2-1 for corsairs is worth it to me over my own base.








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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/24/2017 6:00:36 PM >

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RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 6:06:46 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
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Status: offline 		AA had clear skies, but morale is "LOW FOG"

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Post #: 2486
RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 7:14:10 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		You absolutely must get out of the A6M5. It gets slaughtered by Hellcats. You need the A6M5b at minimum, and the A6M5c is just better. The A6M8 is the only A6M that can hold its own against Hellcats, really.

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Post #: 2487
RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 9:15:01 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Went back and re-read some of Spidery vs Mr.Kane. It is grim reading. July the CV clash occurs just prior to the invasion. Plenty of warning for Spidery, but he never spots troop transports. The fight was a meeting engagement, were the Japanese had tactical surprise pretty much. Spidery knew there was enemy carriers there...and Mr. Kane did not.

Weather plays a part in the battle (severe storms for the Allies and clear sky over the Japanese), and as I remembered Spidery used A6M5 as escorts and A6M5c as CAP.

One of the final strikes...we don't see warning time; we don't see patrol height; and we don't see scrambling, but it sure seems that the CAP should have performed better.


Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 18
A6M5c Zero x 116

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 54
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 31
SBD-3 Dauntless x 62
TBF-1 Avenger x 54

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 9 destroyed
TBF-1 Avenger: 9 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 1
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Ryujo, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Kongo, Bomb hits 5, on fire
CVL Shoho, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CLAA Tenryu


< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/24/2017 9:17:16 PM >

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Post #: 2488
RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/24/2017 9:59:55 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You absolutely must get out of the A6M5. It gets slaughtered by Hellcats. You need the A6M5b at minimum, and the A6M5c is just better. The A6M8 is the only A6M that can hold its own against Hellcats, really.


Ok, taking your advice. I checked the upgrade paths, and will not make anymore A6M5 or A6M5b anymore. Onto the 5c, and then the A6M8.



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Post #: 2489
RE: Fun and Games in the Solomons - 2/25/2017 2:39:07 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You absolutely must get out of the A6M5. It gets slaughtered by Hellcats. You need the A6M5b at minimum, and the A6M5c is just better. The A6M8 is the only A6M that can hold its own against Hellcats, really.


Ok, taking your advice. I checked the upgrade paths, and will not make anymore A6M5 or A6M5b anymore. Onto the 5c, and then the A6M8.





MM used the A6M5b. I do not think it did any better than the A6M5c, and I want to say it was probably worse, but it's hard to tell.

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