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Kolberg - The Movie - 2/21/2017 11:36:25 AM

durangokid

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This struck me as an example of the odd things that go on during a war.

The film, Kolberg, was made between October 1943 to August 1944 by the Third Reich.

To film scenes with snow during summer, 100 railway wagons brought salt to the set in Pomerania. The cast was 187,000 with 50,000 serving soldiers.

All this while Germany was being bombed to rubble and the 50,000 troops might have been of better use on the front line.

The film was released in 1945 and was the most expensive German film of WWII at over 8 million marks, which would buy a lot of tanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDJmmFP7QDk is just a short clip if you want to see the Wehrmacht in costumes.

Post #: 1

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/21/2017 12:29:42 PM

Blond_Knight

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I've heard of this but never seen it. They also produced or almost finished a Titanic movie about a German naval officer who tried to prevent the tragedy.

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Post #: 2

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/21/2017 12:50:05 PM

Saint Ruth

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They finished that Titanic film but Geobells didn't want it shown (a grand venture ending in disaster might not be best for moral!).
Interesting thing about it was that some scenes from that film were used in a later British Titanic film.

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Post #: 3

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/21/2017 3:04:15 PM

Blond_Knight

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Oh right! I think I do remember hearing that they did use some of those scenes in 'A night to remember'.

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Post #: 4

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/21/2017 10:32:07 PM

demyansk

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All true, these guys in charge were living in the twilight zone. The little Corporal and his maniacal sidekick, along with Bormann were in the process of finishing the annihilation of themselves, the German people and everyone else on the Continent. Totally insane to make a movie like this at the time. Just like those monuments they planned on building.

(in reply to Blond_Knight)

Post #: 5

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/21/2017 10:58:55 PM

TulliusDetritus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: demjansk
Just like those monuments they planned on building.

On this one the guy with the funny moustache was more or less coherent. Allied bombings were not so bad after all: they would make the grandiose building plans easier. After all, the place was to be cleared. You only had to sweep the ruins and voil�.

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Post #: 6

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/22/2017 12:06:55 AM

IslandInland

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As part of my course whilst at university I watched a film made in Nazi Germany during the war years. It was in colour, featured some sort of love story, and I remember there was absolutely no mention of the war whatsoever.

It wasn't a very good film but the fact it was made during the war made it fascinating to me.

Having done a bit of research I think it was this but I'm not completely sure:

Immensee - Ein deutsches Volkslied

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Post #: 7

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/22/2017 10:29:33 AM

durangokid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: XXXCorps

As part of my course whilst at university I watched a film made in Nazi Germany during the war years. It was in colour, featured some sort of love story, and I remember there was absolutely no mention of the war whatsoever.

It wasn't a very good film but the fact it was made during the war made it fascinating to me.

Having done a bit of research I think it was this but I'm not completely sure:

Immensee - Ein deutsches Volkslied

On the same page on IMDB under, "people who liked this" I noticed this movie :

The Great Sacrifice (1944)
Drama
7/10
Albrecht & Octavia & �ls, form a triangle from families of idle intellectuals, prone to Neitsche. Nature loving �ls is gravely ill. Further tragedy looms as Albrecht contracts typhoid bringing �ls' foster child out of an infected area.

As it was made in 1944, it must have fallen into the Goebbels category, look, things really can get worse. You too could be prone to Nietsche!

(in reply to IslandInland)

Post #: 8

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/22/2017 12:28:50 PM

IslandInland

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From: YORKSHIRE
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quote:

ORIGINAL: durangokid

quote:

ORIGINAL: XXXCorps

As part of my course whilst at university I watched a film made in Nazi Germany during the war years. It was in colour, featured some sort of love story, and I remember there was absolutely no mention of the war whatsoever.

It wasn't a very good film but the fact it was made during the war made it fascinating to me.

Having done a bit of research I think it was this but I'm not completely sure:

Immensee - Ein deutsches Volkslied

On the same page on IMDB under, "people who liked this" I noticed this movie :

The Great Sacrifice (1944)
Drama
7/10
Albrecht & Octavia & �ls, form a triangle from families of idle intellectuals, prone to Neitsche. Nature loving �ls is gravely ill. Further tragedy looms as Albrecht contracts typhoid bringing �ls' foster child out of an infected area.

As it was made in 1944, it must have fallen into the Goebbels category, look, things really can get worse. You too could be prone to Nietsche!

When you stare into the Nietzschean abyss, the Nietzschean abyss stares back into you.

_____________________________

War In The East 2 Beta Tester and
War In The West Operation Torch Beta Tester
XXXCorps

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Post #: 9

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/22/2017 11:44:44 PM

demyansk

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Goebbels was to busy messing around with all the women. Plus, killing his six children was evil.

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Post #: 10

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/23/2017 12:33:51 AM

Aurelian

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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036989/trivia?ref_=tt_trv_trv

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Post #: 11

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/23/2017 2:58:25 PM

Kuokkanen

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What about quality of the movie? Is it any better than Saving Private Ryan, Fury, and whatever else you lot like to bash about?

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Post #: 12

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/23/2017 3:09:03 PM

durangokid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

What about quality of the movie? Is it any better than Saving Private Ryan, Fury, and whatever else you lot like to bash about?

The cost of the movie suggests it had either :

a. very high production values, or :

b. someone had their hand in the till.

Option b. was always a bit on the risky side when dealing with the Nazi's. As for the content, let's just say it wasn't up for an Oscar that year.

< Message edited by durangokid -- 2/23/2017 4:03:29 PM >

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Post #: 13

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/23/2017 3:41:48 PM

TulliusDetritus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

What about quality of the movie? Is it any better than Saving Private Ryan, Fury, and whatever else you lot like to bash about?

IMDB score is 6.1 (411 votes). In theory more than watchable then.

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Post #: 14

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/24/2017 12:32:00 AM

Neilster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: demjansk

Goebbels was to busy messing around with all the women. Plus, killing his six children was evil.

I miss the word "too". It seems to have disappeared

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 15

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/24/2017 10:28:56 AM

Agathosdaimon

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the Kolberg film i watched on youtube a while back, i forget exactly but i remember at the time something about its underlying message being one that fit with nazi propaganda. Although the film takes some unhistorical turns, it is interesting that it revolves around the Befreiungskriege of the napoleonic wars - the wars of liberation as German culture knows it. There are some parallels in the stoking of nationalism in the 1806-1813 period and that ultranationalism which the nazis sought to capitalise on. Fichte's Rede an die Deutsche Nation is a good example

It is interesting to look back on what was being produced in german during the time of WW2, - i was just reading some of a book of mine which is a collection of some of Fichte's writings, title 'Politik und Weltanschauung' and this book was published in Stuttgart in 1941 - and it makes me wonder, what was going on there at the time, i mean, germany is right in the thick of it almost, and yet publishing is just going on as normal. The book in question also is although the works of a Philosopher that the Nazis approved of, was himself no nazi or proto-nazi and he was at least in the writings in the book, pro-human rights, pro-equality and individual freedom - it makes me wonder whether it was the case that the publishers were trying to still keep the flame of enlightenment ideals alive, or whether the nazis who no doubt were monitoring all publications thought themselves to be completely in line with the philosophers of the enlightenment.

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Post #: 16

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/24/2017 5:08:07 PM

Kuokkanen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

and it makes me wonder, what was going on there at the time, i mean, germany is right in the thick of it almost, and yet publishing is just going on as normal.

I guess it was nearly the same as in USA at times of Gulf War and Iraqi Freedom: war happens, but on home front business goes as usual. In addition Hitler was reluctant to increase output of military industry. In 1943-1944 Germany made tens thousands AFVs in a year when air bombings and material shortages began. Before that it was the same as before the war. I'm not sure about validity of this information.

quote:

it makes me wonder whether it was the case that the publishers were trying to still keep the flame of enlightenment ideals alive, or whether the nazis who no doubt were monitoring all publications thought themselves to be completely in line with the philosophers of the enlightenment.

Can we assume that not all Nazis knew about all the **** that was going on? Maybe Nazis assigned to monitor the publications decided something like: "Yeah, this matches with party's propaganda. Approved." And they had no reliable information about concentration camps and the rest.

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Post #: 17

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/25/2017 5:07:08 AM

Agathosdaimon

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perhaps they didnt check, and rather just only checked to make sure the author was not jewish or such, and perhaps the work of Fichte was never in question by the nazis either, i was just thinking about how they had devoted so much attention to just the White Rose students earlier, but as you say Germany was still not in total war mode in 1941 and things were probably sloppier then what the image of the totalitarian regime would put in our minds.

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Post #: 18

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/25/2017 5:20:37 AM

Neilster

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quote:

In 1943-1944 Germany made tens thousands AFVs in a year when air bombings and material shortages began. Before that it was the same as before the war

I have demonstrated to you that this is not the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_armored_fighting_vehicle_production_during_World_War_II

German AFV production in WW2

1939: 370
1940: 1,888
1941: 3,623
1942: 5,530
1943: 11,601
1944: 18,956
1945: 4,406

These figures are completely at odds with your assertion.

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 19

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/25/2017 5:23:22 AM

Neilster

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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

perhaps they didnt check, and rather just only checked to make sure the author was not jewish or such, and perhaps the work of Fichte was never in question by the nazis either, i was just thinking about how they had devoted so much attention to just the White Rose students earlier, but as you say Germany was still not in total war mode in 1941 and things were probably sloppier then what the image of the totalitarian regime would put in our minds.

I very much doubt it. The Nazis moved very quickly to completely control German life as soon as they gained power in 1933. You couldn't join a stamp collecting club without it being approved by the government.

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 20

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/25/2017 5:35:23 AM

warspite1

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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:

In 1943-1944 Germany made tens thousands AFVs in a year when air bombings and material shortages began. Before that it was the same as before the war

I have demonstrated to you that this is not the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_armored_fighting_vehicle_production_during_World_War_II

German AFV production in WW2

1939: 370
1940: 1,888
1941: 3,623
1942: 5,530
1943: 11,601
1944: 18,956
1945: 4,406

These figures are completely at odds with your assertion.

Cheers, Neilster

warspite1

Not sure of the Wiki source for that, but The World War II Database (Ellis) comes up with pretty similar figures - 12,000 in 1943 and 19,000 in 1944.

Maybe those insisting on 'tens of thousands' are inadvertently including trucks and lorries?? According to Ellis these numbered 74,000 in 1943 and 67,000 in 1944.

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Post #: 21

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/25/2017 5:53:40 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

Can we assume that not all Nazis knew about all the **** that was going on? Maybe Nazis assigned to monitor the publications decided something like: "Yeah, this matches with party's propaganda. Approved." And they had no reliable information about concentration camps and the rest.

warspite1

By **** I assume you mean the Final Solution?

Even if, as is likely, many did not know about the Final Solution, I think we should assume that yes, all Nazis - all Germans - knew about the rest of it. They were there in the 1930's as the Jews were gradually, with each passing law, slowly (and ever more quickly) expunged from German society and German daily life. Jews, Communists and anybody who didn't 'fit' were taken away - where did they go? Some may have chosen to ignore the obvious for whatever reason (personal security, fear, helplessness) - out of sight, out of mind - but they don't get a free pass. Where did they think the Nuremburg laws were headed?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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Post #: 22

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/25/2017 5:57:37 AM

Neilster

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From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

I have demonstrated to you that this is not the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_armored_fighting_vehicle_production_during_World_War_II

German AFV production in WW2

1939: 370
1940: 1,888
1941: 3,623
1942: 5,530
1943: 11,601
1944: 18,956
1945: 4,406

These figures are completely at odds with your assertion.

Cheers, Neilster

warspite1

Not sure of the Wiki source for that, but The World War II Database (Ellis) comes up with pretty similar figures - 12,000 in 1943 and 19,000 in 1944.

Maybe those insisting on 'tens of thousands' are inadvertently including trucks and lorries?? According to Ellis these numbered 74,000 in 1943 and 67,000 in 1944.

The point is the Germans didn't keep production at about pre-war levels and then suddenly went mad in 1943/44. There was a clear acceleration from the beginning of the war onwards. The story for aircraft production is similar.

Cheers, Neilster

< Message edited by Neilster -- 2/25/2017 5:58:48 AM >

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Post #: 23

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/25/2017 6:03:04 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:

In 1943-1944 Germany made tens thousands AFVs in a year when air bombings and material shortages began. Before that it was the same as before the war

I have demonstrated to you that this is not the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_armored_fighting_vehicle_production_during_World_War_II

German AFV production in WW2

1939: 370
1940: 1,888
1941: 3,623
1942: 5,530
1943: 11,601
1944: 18,956
1945: 4,406

These figures are completely at odds with your assertion.

Cheers, Neilster

warspite1

Not sure of the Wiki source for that, but The World War II Database (Ellis) comes up with pretty similar figures - 12,000 in 1943 and 19,000 in 1944.

Maybe those insisting on 'tens of thousands' are inadvertently including trucks and lorries?? According to Ellis these numbered 74,000 in 1943 and 67,000 in 1944.

quote:

Before that it was the same as before the war

The point is the Germans didn't keep production at about pre-war levels and then suddenly went mad in 1943/44. There was a clear acceleration from the beginning of the war onwards. The story for aircraft production is similar.

Cheers, Neilster

warspite1

I completely agree - that is nonsense. Oberst Adolf von Schell was trying to drag German vehicle production up in the late 30's. One of the amazing things about Germany was the vehicle per head nos. (which of course was key when trying to re-arm).

- Italy 1 car for every 104 people
- UK 1 in 14
- USA almost 1 in 3
- Germany 1 in 47

So what? Well think about the knock-on effects - less drivers for the army, less mechanics, less repair shops, less production facilities. Shiny new factories don't just happen overnight.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/25/2017 6:10:00 AM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/25/2017 6:08:35 AM

Neilster

Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

Can we assume that not all Nazis knew about all the **** that was going on? Maybe Nazis assigned to monitor the publications decided something like: "Yeah, this matches with party's propaganda. Approved." And they had no reliable information about concentration camps and the rest.

warspite1

By **** I assume you mean the Final Solution?

Even if, as is likely, many did not know about the Final Solution, I think we should assume that yes, all Nazis - all Germans - knew about the rest of it. They were there in the 1930's as the Jews were gradually, with each passing law, slowly (and ever more quickly) expunged from German society and German daily life. Jews, Communists and anybody who didn't 'fit' were taken away - where did they go? Some may have chosen to ignore the obvious for whatever reason (personal security, fear, helplessness) - out of sight, out of mind - but they don't get a free pass. Where did they think the Nuremburg laws were headed?

Exactly. There was a collective blindness and amnesia at work. Most of those Nazi Party cards and uniforms went onto the fire either at, or just after, the end. Somehow hardly anyone noticed the perhaps 15,000 work camps in the Third Reich, (not just Poland) and the millions of slave labourers toiling in appalling conditions. Troops, who know what burning human flesh smells like, couldn't help but notice it while passing through Poland on their way to the Eastern Front.

Then there's the "clean Wehrmacht" myth and it's now clear that an astonishing number of rapes were carried out almost without sanction in the East.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Wehrmacht

Cheers, Neilster

< Message edited by Neilster -- 2/25/2017 2:32:25 PM >

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 25

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/25/2017 6:37:32 AM

Neilster

Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:

In 1943-1944 Germany made tens thousands AFVs in a year when air bombings and material shortages began. Before that it was the same as before the war

I have demonstrated to you that this is not the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_armored_fighting_vehicle_production_during_World_War_II

German AFV production in WW2

1939: 370
1940: 1,888
1941: 3,623
1942: 5,530
1943: 11,601
1944: 18,956
1945: 4,406

These figures are completely at odds with your assertion.

Cheers, Neilster

warspite1

Not sure of the Wiki source for that, but The World War II Database (Ellis) comes up with pretty similar figures - 12,000 in 1943 and 19,000 in 1944.

Maybe those insisting on 'tens of thousands' are inadvertently including trucks and lorries?? According to Ellis these numbered 74,000 in 1943 and 67,000 in 1944.

quote:

Before that it was the same as before the war

The point is the Germans didn't keep production at about pre-war levels and then suddenly went mad in 1943/44. There was a clear acceleration from the beginning of the war onwards. The story for aircraft production is similar.

Cheers, Neilster

warspite1

I completely agree - that is nonsense. Oberst Adolf von Schell was trying to drag German vehicle production up in the late 30's. One of the amazing things about Germany was the vehicle per head nos. (which of course was key when trying to re-arm).

- Italy 1 car for every 104 people
- UK 1 in 14
- USA almost 1 in 3
- Germany 1 in 47

So what? Well think about the knock-on effects - less drivers for the army, less mechanics, less repair shops, less production facilities. Shiny new factories don't just happen overnight.

Yes. One of the problems the expanding Heer had was training enough drivers. With all Germany's pre-war problems, cars, and hence people who could drive, were relatively rare. As your figures show, cars were almost a luxury item outside the U.S. until the 1950s.

To give an Australian example, the first indigenously manufactured car here was the FX Holden in 1948. From memory these cost about two years' median wages, or about US$100,000 in today's money. For that, you got an engine, manual transmission, wheels, chassis, bodywork, seats and not much else.

As a result, someone getting a new car at the time was a really big deal, as my parents will attest. Britain, desperately short of money after the war, exported 90% of the cars they made until deep into the 50s. Owning one there then was unusual. It was for the well off and doctors.

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 26

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/25/2017 8:38:29 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

Can we assume that not all Nazis knew about all the **** that was going on? Maybe Nazis assigned to monitor the publications decided something like: "Yeah, this matches with party's propaganda. Approved." And they had no reliable information about concentration camps and the rest.

warspite1

By **** I assume you mean the Final Solution?

Even if, as is likely, many did not know about the Final Solution, I think we should assume that yes, all Nazis - all Germans - knew about the rest of it. They were there in the 1930's as the Jews were gradually, with each passing law, slowly (and ever more quickly) expunged from German society and German daily life. Jews, Communists and anybody who didn't 'fit' were taken away - where did they go? Some may have chosen to ignore the obvious for whatever reason (personal security, fear, helplessness) - out of sight, out of mind - but they don't get a free pass. Where did they think the Nuremburg laws were headed?

Exactly. There was a collective blindness and amnesia at work. Most of those Nazi Party cards and uniforms went onto the fire either at, or just after, the end. Somehow hardly anyone noticed the perhaps 15,000 work camps in the Third Reich, (not just Poland) and the millions of slave labourers toiling in appalling conditions. Troops, who know what burning human flesh smells like, couldn't help but notice it while passing through Poland on their way to the Eastern Front.

Then there's the "clean Wehrmacht" myth and it's now clear that an astonishing number of rapes were carried out almost without sanction in the East.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Wehrmacht

Cheers, Neilster

warspite1

The nonsensical position of those Nazis who denied they 'knew' (or denied agreeing with the Final Solution) asserting that that somehow absolved them of guilt was, ironically, put most eloquently by Heydrich in the quite brilliant film Conspiracy:

Heydrich: [to Kritzinger] Well then, this is the moment to be... practical, until such time as Germany can afford your philosophy, which is what? Hound them, impoverish them, exploit them, imprison them - just do not _kill_ them, and you are God's noblest of men. I find that, uh, truly remarkable.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Neilster)

Post #: 27

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/25/2017 10:08:45 PM

demyansk

Posts: 2840
Joined: 2/20/2008
Status: offline

A new series is starting I believe on march 4? I might be a few days off on the AHC channel, Hitler's killing squads. It looks like it might be concentrating on the SS Einsatzgruppen, a 4 part series.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 28

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/26/2017 12:28:28 AM

Blond_Knight

Posts: 1031
Joined: 5/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

The nonsensical position of those Nazis who denied they 'knew' (or denied agreeing with the Final Solution) asserting that that somehow absolved them of guilt was, ironically, put most eloquently by Heydrich in the quite brilliant film Conspiracy:

Heydrich: [to Kritzinger] Well then, this is the moment to be... practical, until such time as Germany can afford your philosophy, which is what? Hound them, impoverish them, exploit them, imprison them - just do not _kill_ them, and you are God's noblest of men. I find that, uh, truly remarkable.

Actually 'Conspiracy' was a darn good movie. What made it so chilling was how casual they were about eradicating a race of people.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 29

RE: Kolberg - The Movie - 2/26/2017 5:24:26 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

The nonsensical position of those Nazis who denied they 'knew' (or denied agreeing with the Final Solution) asserting that that somehow absolved them of guilt was, ironically, put most eloquently by Heydrich in the quite brilliant film Conspiracy:

Heydrich: [to Kritzinger] Well then, this is the moment to be... practical, until such time as Germany can afford your philosophy, which is what? Hound them, impoverish them, exploit them, imprison them - just do not _kill_ them, and you are God's noblest of men. I find that, uh, truly remarkable.

Actually 'Conspiracy' was a darn good movie. What made it so chilling was how casual they were about eradicating a race of people.

warspite1

Indeed. The fact that so many around that table were university educated men calmly discussing the wholesale slaughter of an entire people is profoundly shocking.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 2/26/2017 7:10:05 AM >

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(in reply to Blond_Knight)

Post #: 30