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RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 12:10:11 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I'm assuming here he has a plethora of large fast tankers now for the remaining ports since thee are not as many to ship from. You don't want 12 knot ships chugging through Allied infested waters for days getting lit up by search, then torched at leisure. Get through fast!




Ok, you are right...but only because there is so little oil and fuel to pull.

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Post #: 3451
RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 12:10:50 AM   
ny59giants


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Status: offline 		Where all you HI is being spent....




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RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 12:16:10 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		I had a bathtub brainstorm. Dan and I have made a ridiculous agreement on no night-bombing of bases or ports. Will NOT repeat that mistake next game.

There is no discussion on night naval attacks by air. Has anyone tried this? Was just reading my Fast Carriers book and it spoke at length on this topic. I have 3-4 Daitai of Frances and 3-4 Daitai of Jills that could be set to night naval attack in the Philippines Area. Is this something to ponder or useless?


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 3/4/2017 12:19:56 AM >

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Post #: 3453
RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 12:16:51 AM   
ny59giants


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Post #: 3454
RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 12:18:49 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		On TKs. Have three BIG TF of TKs presently. One of AOs. One TF of TK and the AOs are heading south past CRB moving to Singers. The second TK TF is leaving the Home Islands moving SW. The last TK TF is approaching the Home Islands carrying 90,000 Fuel and 80,000 Oil.

There was 100,000 more Oil in Hokkaido but it just got moved to the Home Islands. Will continue to gradually ship it there but want my big TKs moving for at least one more fuel run.


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Post #: 3455
RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 12:20:27 AM   
ny59giants


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RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 12:24:09 AM   
ny59giants


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RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 12:26:55 AM   
ny59giants


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RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 12:28:49 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I had a bathtub brainstorm. Dan and I have made a ridiculous agreement on no night-bombing of bases or ports. Will NOT repeat that mistake next game.

There is no discussion on night naval attacks by air. Has anyone tried this? Was just reading my Fast Carriers book and it spoke at length on this topic. I have 3-4 Daitai of Frances and 3-4 Daitai of Jills that could be set to night naval attack in the Philippines Area. Is this something to ponder or useless?



Don't hold your breath, here. Works once in a blue moon.

You need high dl, night naval search, very short range, good weather, and moonlight and radar helps too. Very difficult to pull off. Emily works well, because, when they do fly they are tough and shoot twice.

I once put 300 Betties with radar on night naval strike against the Allied Deathstar...50% damaged or sunk (my Betties) not a single hit that I recall.

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Post #: 3459
RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 12:36:01 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		DRAT! Lowpe--I am now going back to the bathtub for further inspiration.


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Post #: 3460
RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 2:13:08 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		I think you should sort your air force by fighters; count the number of Army sentai you have and gaze lovingly at their size.

Then count the number of non-CV Navy fighter squadrons you have.

And then ask yourself...is the ratio of army fighter to navy fighter production correct? I don't advocate spending supply on making more fighter production factories, I think you have to live with what you have spent already and you do have Frank B coming online. Well, that is my thinking with the information I have. You most likely do have time to tweak things. But realize, you could expend 30,000 supply now expanding your Frank A factory, but that will only get you 30 planes a month for say 6 months.

Where is the Frank R research...am I missing something there? I take it you skipped the Jack line totally?

Then, I think I would look at any idled fighter factories you may have turned off, I can't see those, and perhaps think about turning them on again especially if they use the Ha35 engine. The Oscar IV, A6M8, Tojo IIc all can play very valuable roles in the endgame: escort, deep air defense, cap trap. And you need numbers.

Especially true if your Army fighter squadrons are under strength.

I think you are going to have to be very careful with your fighter pools. My rough math show roughly 500 top line fighter production a month for Army and Navy which to me is extremely low for the carnage to come. Especially since you don't have really deep pools.

Take a look at NJP vs Wargamers AAR. The game where NJP attacked the soviets. It isn't a long AAR, but you will get an idea of the massive number of planes (and Pilots) you need in the endgame.

You definitely have a challenge and learning experience ahead of you. My hope is you see the game to the end, which will be autovictory for the Allies at some point, and use the circumstances to better understand the long term tactics and strategies of playing Japan. You will become a much better player & modder for the experience I think.

This is how almost all Japanese games end. Constrained for supply and pressed hard by relentless Allied hammerblows of bombers, bombardments, and seemingly all knowing Allied sigint providing the path of least resistance to the Home Islands. But it is great fun!

In addition, each day you delay auto-victory is a win. Geographically, you are in a very good position. Make the most of it, and see how far into 1945 you can survive.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 3/4/2017 11:43:42 AM >

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RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 2:43:56 AM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I had a bathtub brainstorm. Dan and I have made a ridiculous agreement on no night-bombing of bases or ports. Will NOT repeat that mistake next game.

There is no discussion on night naval attacks by air. Has anyone tried this? Was just reading my Fast Carriers book and it spoke at length on this topic. I have 3-4 Daitai of Frances and 3-4 Daitai of Jills that could be set to night naval attack in the Philippines Area. Is this something to ponder or useless?



Don't hold your breath, here. Works once in a blue moon.

You need high dl, night naval search, very short range, good weather, and moonlight and radar helps too. Very difficult to pull off. Emily works well, because, when they do fly they are tough and shoot twice.




I once put 300 Betties with radar on night naval strike against the Allied Deathstar...50% damaged or sunk (my Betties) not a single hit that I recall.


How do night-attack kamikazes fare?

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 3/4/2017 2:44:17 AM >

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Post #: 3462
RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 2:29:56 PM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Engines appear to be the priority. What do you recommend for changes?


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Post #: 3463
RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 4:06:25 PM   
Andav

 

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quote:

I had a bathtub brainstorm. Dan and I have made a ridiculous agreement on no night-bombing of bases or ports. Will NOT repeat that mistake next game.

There is no discussion on night naval attacks by air. Has anyone tried this? Was just reading my Fast Carriers book and it spoke at length on this topic. I have 3-4 Daitai of Frances and 3-4 Daitai of Jills that could be set to night naval attack in the Philippines Area. Is this something to ponder or useless?


I tried to used night air attacks in my game vs witpqs during 1945 when he was invading the Home Islands. I spent a lot of time building the squadrons (mainly Grace, Jill, Nell and Judy) with top pilots. I setup a lot of night search. After about 10 days, I finally had a torpedo hit. About 10 days later, I had another one. This seemed to be the pattern. I tried using level bombers at various altitudes (1k-10k). I never hit anything with a level bomber even with high skill pilots. The good news is flak losses were low and CAP losses were low. Ops losses were reasonable considering if it had been a day attack basically nothing would have come home.

Basically, they get lost a lot and do not attack/fly. You have to manage fatigue and morale much closer as well since they change rapidly.

When I tried to time them to near full moon and clear weather, they did seem to find the targets more. If there were storms, you might as well stand down. Unfortunately, this all adds a ton of clicks each turn potentially.

I had by far the most success running the various PT type boats, (MBT, MBG, etc.) into suspected hexes with Allies CVs or landings. These things are gold until they get obliterated by a 16" shell.

quote:

How do night-attack kamikazes fare?


They are not available at night.

Wa


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RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 4:27:16 PM   
MakeeLearn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav



They are not available at night.

Wa





Thanks, Ive not gotten that far. Seen footage of what looks to be dawn or twilight attacks

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Post #: 3465
RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 4:27:44 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Engines appear to be the priority. What do you recommend for changes?



At this point any industrial changes are counter productive. You don't have the supply stores to consider changes to engines or any other factories.

This is why Lowpe above is pointing out that since your Ha-35 pool is good until 46, if you have fighters like Oscar, Tojo, A6M models, anything from midwar that you either can build now without spending more supply on factories, that would be best.

If you don't have turned off factories of those airframes, then just stand pat with what you're making and pick your spots to fight. You should have a decent production of Franks with the addition of the Ki-84b.



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Post #: 3466
RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 8:33:46 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Once those research factories kick in I should have nearly 400 a month coming with Frank. The Tony model coming in will add another 150 a month to the army side.

Sam is slated for nearly 400 a month and those will free up a bunch of various A6 airframes for the pool.

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Post #: 3467
RE: May 1944 - 3/4/2017 9:21:18 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Once those research factories kick in I should have nearly 400 a month coming with Frank. The Tony model coming in will add another 150 a month to the army side.

Sam is slated for nearly 400 a month and those will free up a bunch of various A6 airframes for the pool.


Plus the 200 Georges. I think that's fine.

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Post #: 3468
RE: May 1944 - 3/5/2017 12:12:04 AM   
John 3rd


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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Just sent the May 20th turn back to Dan. No real action whatsoever. Don't have any complaints about that!

Stopped ALL AK/AKL production and will do the same for any TK that are 60+ days out.


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Post #: 3469
RE: May 1944 - 3/5/2017 12:32:13 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Just sent the May 20th turn back to Dan. No real action whatsoever. Don't have any complaints about that!

Stopped ALL AK/AKL production and will do the same for any TK that are 60+ days out.



I think probably making the tankers is a mistake (but I don't have full information). That is a lot of HI, and you should be thinking of using the HI for fighters -- stockpiling it. Can't be bombed, and once your HI shuts down because of lack of fuel you will appreciate the extra cushion.

The other thing, is that the Game Engine starts to go wonky when supply and fuel starts getting low. You will notice HI shutdowns (and localized supply shortages) because the fuel isn't flowing to the factories, instead it is prioritized to establish reserves at all your ports for shipping. This can really drive you crazy trying to fix. Once method is to make the home port for ships at places that need fuel (like Port Arthur). This is primarily a problem in China and Manchuko and Korea.




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Post #: 3470
RE: May 1944 - 3/5/2017 5:05:50 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I had a bathtub brainstorm. Dan and I have made a ridiculous agreement on no night-bombing of bases or ports. Will NOT repeat that mistake next game.

There is no discussion on night naval attacks by air. Has anyone tried this? Was just reading my Fast Carriers book and it spoke at length on this topic. I have 3-4 Daitai of Frances and 3-4 Daitai of Jills that could be set to night naval attack in the Philippines Area. Is this something to ponder or useless?



Don't hold your breath, here. Works once in a blue moon.

You need high dl, night naval search, very short range, good weather, and moonlight and radar helps too. Very difficult to pull off. Emily works well, because, when they do fly they are tough and shoot twice.

I once put 300 Betties with radar on night naval strike against the Allied Deathstar...50% damaged or sunk (my Betties) not a single hit that I recall.



You two are advocating different things here-just wanted to point out.

Lowpe is referring to a night naval engagement (ala USS Chicago) of Betties on naval TFs. John is referring to a HR on night bombing of naval bases, which is subject to different modifiers / qualifiers of success.

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RE: May 1944 - 3/5/2017 5:06:32 PM   
Chickenboy


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From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Enjoying the endgame discussions from those that have been there and done that. Thanks Lowpe and Obvert. Interesting stuff.

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RE: May 1944 - 3/5/2017 6:52:59 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I had a bathtub brainstorm. Dan and I have made a ridiculous agreement on no night-bombing of bases or ports. Will NOT repeat that mistake next game.

There is no discussion on night naval attacks by air. Has anyone tried this? Was just reading my Fast Carriers book and it spoke at length on this topic. I have 3-4 Daitai of Frances and 3-4 Daitai of Jills that could be set to night naval attack in the Philippines Area. Is this something to ponder or useless?



Don't hold your breath, here. Works once in a blue moon.

You need high dl, night naval search, very short range, good weather, and moonlight and radar helps too. Very difficult to pull off. Emily works well, because, when they do fly they are tough and shoot twice.

I once put 300 Betties with radar on night naval strike against the Allied Deathstar...50% damaged or sunk (my Betties) not a single hit that I recall.



You two are advocating different things here-just wanted to point out.

Lowpe is referring to a night naval engagement (ala USS Chicago) of Betties on naval TFs. John is referring to a HR on night bombing of naval bases, which is subject to different modifiers / qualifiers of success.


I thought John said Night Naval attack.

Night bombing of ports, well any bombing, really depends upon the Allied flak present. It eats you alive!

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Post #: 3473
RE: May 1944 - 3/6/2017 3:59:24 PM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		May 22, 1944

Back to the actual war!

Had some interesting skirmishes and fights today.

Air
Over the skies of Panay a Japanese CAP Trap succeeds magnificently catching a host of Allied planes over Roxas, Phil. Georges and Franks CRUSH over 60 SBDs and lay waste to other aircraft. NICE!

A coordinated anti-shipping strike along Dan's supply lines will occur tomorrow. Planes fly in to Ternate, Babeldoap, Peleliu, and Manado. Two Daitai land at each base with a large fighter group (36-49 planes) and strong bomber group (36-48 planes). Strike distance is carefully set. We'll see if anyone gets lucky.

Ground
Liuchow, China Yep. The Chinese are stirring. Six Corps invest Liuchow with more troops moving in on the Japanese line to the NE. The Japanese Line follows the railroad and everyone is well supplied and fully dug in. The approach march of the Chinese was duly noted so five bombers Daitai and Sentai move into nearby bases and on the 19th began bombing the troops in nice open terrain. An average of 3-400 Chinese are hit each day and so an attack ordered for the 22nd. Two Japanese ID and 3rd TK Div strike the Chinese lines and just barely miss a 1-1 result. Will rest a day and hit again while the bombers keep raising the disruption.

Using Paratroopers Dan has taken a couple of dot hexes and small bases in Indochina. One of those dot bases is retaken yesterday and Vinh is about to be retaken tomorrow. These small units are fodder for the Japanese so we'll take them.

The 2nd TK Div and another ID are about to land at Cam Rahn Bay. That is about 800+ AV with nothing to do...

Over 30 beaten up units have successfully disengaged from Allied pursuit in Burma/Thailand. Dan has missed a magnificent opportunity to utterly destroy these units as they have fled Rangoon and Pegu. The overall AV defense of Moulmein is about 80 and he could have taken the base with just one attack. What has happened? NOTHING! Most of those units will go to Bangkok to rebuild and draw replacements.

Naval
The Decoy KB has been hanging near Moulmein and has used their Sams to nice effect on the Allied air. Two BB and BC wait to make a bombardment run when Moulmein falls. The Fleet was brought in to provide cover while the Japanese retreat occurs.

Troop Convoys depart Tokyo to land 6 Brigades and support units at several bases to strengthen up the Interior Perimeter. Will Post a screenshot of that action and detail the strength of defending units. Might generate some good discussion.

The Kido Butai will finish its long upgrade on June 1st. The Fleet will depart for Daito Soto at that point. It will be looking for an opportunity working on Nimitz's Principle of 'calculated risk.'

Economic
The last of the big three Fuel/Oil TF arrives at Hiroshima and begins unloading 81,000 Fuel and 113,000 Oil.

Down at Singers the AOs of the Fleet arrive and begin loading 80,000 Fuel to run back to the Home Islands. The first TK TF will arrive at Singers in three days. IT will work to load 150,000 fuel/oil.


Those are the developments...







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Post #: 3474
RE: May 1944 - 3/6/2017 4:25:05 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Over the skies of Panay a Japanese CAP Trap succeeds magnificently catching a host of Allied planes over Roxas, Phil. Georges and Franks CRUSH over 60 SBDs and lay waste to other aircraft. NICE!


Very nice. Butchering trained USN aviators by the bushel basket is always something to be celebrated! BANZAI!

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Post #: 3475
RE: May 1944 - 3/6/2017 5:21:02 PM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Nice day in the air! It is important to wear down the Allies as much as possible and CAP traps like that work very, very well. It will also change Allied behavior and free up some opportunity for you.

Don't say last fuel/oil convoy. Keep working it. Tankers are useless once the oil/fuel is gone so keep trying and if the past AARs are any guide you might surprise yourself at how much you can sneak back.

The other option is, if you can ship it into Singers/Camh Ran Bay you might get it to work its way back to Hong Kong/Port Arthur by pulling from those bases. You need the Vietnam Railroad, and the coast of China. Kind of advanced topic here, and it is late in the game but for a few months you might get it to work very well. Haiphong is another place that can pull oil and fuel into.

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Post #: 3476
RE: May 1944 - 3/6/2017 6:11:38 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
The other option is, if you can ship it into Singers/Camh Ran Bay you might get it to work its way back to Hong Kong/Port Arthur by pulling from those bases. You need the Vietnam Railroad, and the coast of China. Kind of advanced topic here, and it is late in the game but for a few months you might get it to work very well. Haiphong is another place that can pull oil and fuel into.


Second this.

This requires you keeping Singapore-CRB-Shanghai communications clear and spares you from having to transport oil anywhere other than Sumatra-Singapore and Shanghai-Kyushu.

Before you claim revulsion about gamey game mechanics, please remember the myriad appearances of the 1.0x10^6 in either sea or port format.

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Post #: 3477
RE: May 1944 - 3/7/2017 1:54:06 AM   
John 3rd


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Status: offline 		Damned strait Chickenboy! Will investigate that idea...

Do I need to do anything other then get oil/fuel to Saigon/CRB and then just set Shanghai and Pt Arthur to SUCK as much fuel as possible? Is it that easy? Can't be...


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Post #: 3478
RE: May 1944 - 3/7/2017 2:02:51 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Damned strait Chickenboy! Will investigate that idea...

Do I need to do anything other then get oil/fuel to Saigon/CRB and then just set Shanghai and Pt Arthur to SUCK as much fuel as possible? Is it that easy? Can't be...


I *try* to simulate reality by making the full trek from Singapore (or Brunei or wherever) to Kyushu direct. But oil will move cross-country across the magical railway / roadway of China on its own accord. I don't really know if there's a benefit to 'stockpiling' at Port Arthur-my gut says 'no'.

I don't know if you have to 'walk' oil/fuel like you can 'walk' supply across China.

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Post #: 3479
RE: May 1944 - 3/7/2017 2:03:56 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Heck. ANYTHING will help and why the heck not. I can continue to load fuel/oil AND try to draw it up. Why not?


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Post #: 3480
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