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Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 6:13:10 PM   
HalfLifeExpert


Posts: 911
Joined: 7/20/2015
From: California, United States
Status: offline 		I've been playing around with some larger scenarios. Planning to take a crack at Korean Missile Crisis soon, but first im gonna finish up my current playthorugh of Indian Ocean Brawl

Anyway, in Indian Ocean Brawl, I've played it a few times now, and what I have done at the outset, other than attack the AGI shadowing the Nimitz, is launch my cruise missiles from the SAG that left Oman at the Aden Air Base in hopes of catching some Soviet planes on the ground. I target the missiles at the hangars (in case of Aden only one), and at tarmac spots. 15/16 Tomahawks reached their targets (one was shot down over Gulf of Aden), and It appears I only took out a pair of Il-38 Mays on the ground, possibly in the hangar.

Is this a good way to use tomahawks against Airbases? I know I wont be able to take out runways with them, so what is the best way to used Tomahawks to help neutralize an airbase, or at least soften it up?

< Message edited by HalfLifeExpert -- 3/3/2017 6:19:01 PM >
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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 6:21:42 PM   
Tailhook

 

Posts: 293
Joined: 1/18/2015
Status: offline 		It depends on how the base is set up. For the command live scenario I used 15 for a runway and 5 for a runway grade taxiway because there was simply too many targets to hit parking spaces. Access points used about the same amount of missiles and didn't neutralize the taxiway. If it's a small field and you're not worried about the enemy diverting there, aim for parking spaces. 1 a piece for non-non-hardened should do the trick

(in reply to HalfLifeExpert)
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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 6:23:02 PM   
HalfLifeExpert


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From: California, United States
Status: offline 		So a group of tomahawks would be enough to knock out a runway?

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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 6:58:03 PM   
Gunner98

 

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From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		You also have the Ammo storage to hit - assuming its not underground or in a mountain, a slack handful of TLAMs should be able to take out a bunker and there are usually only a few. Downside to this of course is that most AC will have one loadout to bother you with, but after that they are lawn ornaments.

Not the first choice but if there are too many parking spots or too many runways...

B

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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 7:00:40 PM   
HalfLifeExpert


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Joined: 7/20/2015
From: California, United States
Status: offline 		Ok, noted. Are fuel stores a worthy target as well? What about Control Towers?


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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 7:17:00 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Status: offline 		Neither ground fuel storage nor Air Tfc Control networks are modeled in the game but I think its just good form to take them out

B

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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 7:18:30 PM   
HalfLifeExpert


Posts: 911
Joined: 7/20/2015
From: California, United States
Status: offline 		would be cool for those to be modeled eventually. Taking out the fuel stores have obvious benefits, and perhaps killing the control tower (And presumably the ATCs) would significantly delay launches?

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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 7:38:36 PM   
nats


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Status: offline 		From a realism point of view there is no way you would use Tomahawks to take out runways and taxiways or anything like that. You would use them to take out the radar and possibly the control tower and then use conventional strike aircraft to take out the rest of the site using GBUs for shelters, retarded bombs/cluster bombs/Durandals/JP233 for runways, and cluster bombs for planes. Tomahawks are just too expensive to be used for normal targets like that you use them for taking out high threat targets to give a chance for planes/helicopters to get in.

< Message edited by nats -- 3/3/2017 7:39:27 PM >

_____________________________

"Its life Jim, but not as we know it"

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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 7:43:49 PM   
HalfLifeExpert


Posts: 911
Joined: 7/20/2015
From: California, United States
Status: offline 		I know that it is ideal to use anti-runway munitions, but the way I used the tomahawks at the outset of Indian Ocean Brawl was as a first strike to cause some damage to the airpower based out of the airport. Basically a preemptive attack to try and delay some sort of attack on my CVBG. I didn't attack Socotra with the Tomahawks because when I did that on the first playthrough, they all got shot down by Flankers based out of there. Now I reserve those guys for the B-52 launched AGM-86 cruise missiles based on Diego Garcia. On one playthough those missiles took out 23 Flankers on the ground

< Message edited by HalfLifeExpert -- 3/3/2017 7:54:49 PM >

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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 8:17:11 PM   
Tailhook

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nats

From a realism point of view there is no way you would use Tomahawks to take out runways and taxiways or anything like that. You would use them to take out the radar and possibly the control tower and then use conventional strike aircraft to take out the rest of the site using GBUs for shelters, retarded bombs/cluster bombs/Durandals/JP233 for runways, and cluster bombs for planes. Tomahawks are just too expensive to be used for normal targets like that you use them for taking out high threat targets to give a chance for planes/helicopters to get in.


With the truly massive Tomahawk inventory the US has and the benefits of destroying planes on the ground, the ramp, shelters, ammo dumps, and fuel dumps are totally valid targets for Tomahawks. The damage done would be worth more than the missiles cost, and can really mess up an enemy airforce. Even runways and taxiways if neutralized briefly can make all the difference in a campaign.

(in reply to nats)
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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 8:31:39 PM   
HalfLifeExpert


Posts: 911
Joined: 7/20/2015
From: California, United States
Status: offline 		A TLAM costs about 569k USD (in 1999 USD) according to the USN website, so my 16 missile salvo cost about 9.1 million.

A single A-6 Intruder, the ideal Attack plane onboard the Nimitz in Indian Ocean Brawl, according to wiki is 43 million USD in 1998.

I'd say my Tomahawks cost a hell of a lot less than a strike from the Nimitz, which would need a couple mid air refuelings and escorts, plus the cost of ordinance.



< Message edited by HalfLifeExpert -- 3/3/2017 8:36:20 PM >

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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 8:39:32 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		I don't think the decision should be made on $$$ basis - you need to consider:

-The amount of time you have to achieve the mission
-What the actual purpose of the strike is? To destroy the base or simply neutralize it allowing you to do something else?
-Persistence of that neutralization?
-Risk to assets, to mission success, to follow on missions.
-Availability --and this might be where the $$$ come in, if you have been restricted in some way on usage of TLAM or any other asset
-Assets available that can do the job.

TLAM is always an option, may not be the best option - its slow, vulnerable, limited stock, limited penetration. But it might be best option you have.

Great thing about the game - try it out, if it doesn't work try something else.

B

(in reply to HalfLifeExpert)
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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 8:43:37 PM   
HalfLifeExpert


Posts: 911
Joined: 7/20/2015
From: California, United States
Status: offline 		In my case, the attack on Aden airport was my own decision. It wasn't my objective. I wanted to strike a first blow against the aircraft stationed there to try and get an early advantage of some kind. I knew it would be a waste to fire the Tomahawks at Socotra because of the Flankers. Since I knew Socotra would be a waste, and since TLAMs of course cannot be used against he Kiev group, it made sense to make use of them.

My play through isn't over yet, I still have a save for when I get home from work, but I basically want to do as much damage to Aden and Socotra as I can before I start launching strikes at the Kiev CVBG. I am planning a SEAD Raid against Socotra when I get somewhat closer to be followed up by conventionally armed B-52s.

< Message edited by HalfLifeExpert -- 3/3/2017 8:44:36 PM >

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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/3/2017 8:49:35 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		OK now I remember this scenario. Played it a couple times a while back.

Now I'm interested again! Bugger - another distraction

B

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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/7/2017 2:06:09 PM   
Yokes

 

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Status: offline 		Hint: the airfield at Socotra only has a single runway access point...

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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/7/2017 4:33:42 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nats

From a realism point of view there is no way you would use Tomahawks to take out runways and taxiways or anything like that. You would use them to take out the radar and possibly the control tower and then use conventional strike aircraft to take out the rest of the site using GBUs for shelters, retarded bombs/cluster bombs/Durandals/JP233 for runways, and cluster bombs for planes. Tomahawks are just too expensive to be used for normal targets like that you use them for taking out high threat targets to give a chance for planes/helicopters to get in.


The best weapon in the USAF inventory for runway destruction in current loadouts are armor-piercing guided bombs (since there are no non-guided versions of these). GP bombs like the Mk80 series would do less damage due to runways' high armor value but in quantity would probably work okay. There are no Durandals in the loadouts.

(in reply to nats)
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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/7/2017 5:14:25 PM   
HalfLifeExpert


Posts: 911
Joined: 7/20/2015
From: California, United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yokes

Hint: the airfield at Socotra only has a single runway access point...


Socotra was the base I wanted to knock out, but in each play through, every time I fired off Tomahawks, they would get butchered by the Flankers stationed there.

And I have finished the scenario, I have posted an AAR in the AAR Sub thread on here if you are interested.

< Message edited by HalfLifeExpert -- 3/7/2017 5:42:37 PM >

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Post #: 17
RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/7/2017 5:44:43 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		Ran through this the other night. Its a matter of timing, the way I did it was:

*Launch a handful of TLAMs at start, caught a radar site but more importantly got the Flankers scrambling and one of the other sites lit up.
*Launched the B-52s with the CALCMs
*About this time I got a sniff of a bomber coming toward the SAG - fired up the Radars and the OECM.
*About the same time I got a sniff on a Sub near the SAG, launched two ASW Helo's
Three things happened in rapid succession 1) the SAG was swarmed by everything (won't detail it) and 2) SAG ran out of SAMs while it ran to the east! and 3) Lost two Helo's but a bunch of Flankers got hit by SAMs when they came too close - Not planned but it worked.
*By the time the surviving Flankers were snuggly in their base a bucket load of CALCMs came in over the ridge line to the South of the base - very effective
*Then the TLAMs went in, more as a cleanup - there was still an issue with local SAMs but the base was essentially shut down.
*I think I ended up killing almost everything but the Runway access point
b

(in reply to HalfLifeExpert)
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RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/7/2017 5:50:50 PM   
HalfLifeExpert


Posts: 911
Joined: 7/20/2015
From: California, United States
Status: offline 		when I played, the SAG was able to defeat virtually everything thrown at it (Fencers, Badgers, Bears, Foragers, Flankers). It had expended most of its missiles, but it took zero hits. I only lost them when I was daring with getting them close to the Kiev group to help coordinate the Nimitz Strike

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Post #: 19
RE: Using Tomahawks against Airbases... - 3/7/2017 6:05:27 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 5508
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline 		Yeah, same result. SAG had 4 SAMs left, a bunch of stuff killed and down by two Seahawks.

When I lit up the radars and popped up with the Helos, a flock of Flankers came at me and probably 12 were knocked down, the only thing that prevented more from being killed was the bevy of Fencers who were quite determined to die. After that, Socotra was unguarded except for SAMs until the survivors were re-armed. Just don't give them that chance and hit them while they are down.

Might make it a bit more of a trick if the Flankers were prevented from closing on the SAG or perhaps if a few were on a limited range intercept mission waiting for the follow on strikes to come in. The Fencer attack coming in at wave top level as well wold be trickier A truck mounted jammer would be a problem too...

B

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