RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J)

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RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/22/2017 4:20:17 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

July 9/44:

Other than the abandonment of Taung Gyi, the turn was quiet. Only a British submarine DC'd off the coast of Burma suffering five near miss hits. System damage is 12% so off to Calcutta for repairs.

Ordered a deliberate attack against Taung Gyi just in case the base doesn't auto flip. I'll start to redeploy troops once the base control changes. Taung Gyi is currently a level 3 airbase and I'll begin expansion immediately. Supply will be a limiting factor on air operations, but it will be nice to have another forward airbase.

The air force in Burma will begin tactical bombing of weaker Japanese positions. I just want to win small tactical air engagements here, in the short term.

Australia:

The supply situation for Allied forces in Northern Australia is improving. With Normanton and Mornington Island having large airbases now, I've deployed as many transports as the fields will hold. Daily supply runs to Tennant Creek is helping improve the logistical situation. I should be able to start conducting limited fighter operations from Fenton and Katherine. The next target is Darwin. Japanese air strength at the base ranges from 100-120 aircraft on any given day. There are also currently 20+ ships in port. I'll be ordering sweeps and bombing of the base within days. An all out effort will be made to suppress Darwin's airbase and allow the Japanese defenders to be bombed daily. Time to make life unpleasant.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 601

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/24/2017 7:35:26 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

July 10/44:

Burma:

Taung Gyi auto flips and Erik hopes I enjoy the malaria and monsoon that goes with liberating the base. I also inherit level 6 forts, so that frees up quite a bit of AV on my end.

Toungoo has been reinforced heavily with Japanese troops. I'll leave a strong force in the wooded hex northeast of the base, but the bulk of my army will shift west again to put pressure on the hex between Prome and Toungoo. I will fight in the 2x terrain and attempt to clear the hex, then contest Prome from the east.

Burma will still be a grind, but conditions now will allow me to fight in better terrain and with adequate supply.

Australia:

Allied air units will redeploy and operations to fully suppress Darwin's airbase will commence next turn. There are 21 ships in port that I'd like to target as well. I will risk combined sweeps and bomber attacks on the same day, in an effort to get to those ships. If I just sweep first, I believe there will be no ships left in port to bomb the following day. I'll accept the losses if the turn goes bad, as I'm sure it will.

Thoughts:

Elsewhere, Allied preparation continue for the next big push continue. I do have smaller operations planned for the Marshall's in the meantime.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 602

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/25/2017 2:38:23 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

Hrm. You spent all that time moving east to the hex outside of Toungoo, now you're doing to go back west? Why?

Why wouldn't you put pressure via the road down from Taung Gyi?

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 603

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/27/2017 4:41:17 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Hrm. You spent all that time moving east to the hex outside of Toungoo, now you're doing to go back west? Why?

Why wouldn't you put pressure via the road down from Taung Gyi?

Two reasons. Supply and terrain. I don't want to be fighting in 3x defensive terrain and the supply situation worsens the farther east my troops move. I only wanted to liberate Taung Gyi to cover my flank, now that that is accomplished my original offensive to force a gap between Prome and Toungoo seems more feasible. I'm trying to get Japanese troops to shift to create openings I can exploit. Erik still has the interior lines of communication and can reinforce wherever I choose to move faster than I can. I'm trying to keep his troops near Taung Gyi, away from my ultimate goal. Burma now is one big diversion to tie down as many Japanese troops as possible, and advance towards Rangoon without trashing my Commonwealth forces fighting in 3x terrain.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 604

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/27/2017 7:15:50 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

The July 15/44 turn is away. Heavy bomber attacks against Darwin were ordered on the 14th, but weather over Darwin scrubbed the missions. I have kept my orders the same for the 15th, but had to stand down two LRCAP fighter squadrons due to fatigue. I added one more to compensate, but against the Japanese CAP I need all the numbers I can get. I'm waiting for Groote and Merauke to reach level 8 airbases which will allow more aircraft to be involved in future raids. This is the start of a dedicated air campaign to suppress Darwin and bomb the Japanese defenders into dust.

Initial recon of Esperance shows no Japanese defenders. I'm going to send in a small amphibious force, rather than march overland as initially planned.

The last of my forces assigned to Mindanao and the Marianas have left San Francisco. I'm fully prepped for Babeldoab, Guam and Tinian. I'm at various stages of prep for other targets in the area. Targets in the Philippines include Davao, Cagayan, Cebu and some of the other island bases. It probably won't be until late August that I can move. I'd like to wait until October when all my CVE's can have their AA suites upgraded. I don't know, it may be worth the wait to do so, at least before I move against the Philippines and Marianas. I can't wait until October to hit Babeldoab though. That needs to happen before the end of August. I'd like to be entrenched in the Philippines and Marianas before the end of the year.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 605

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/27/2017 11:58:50 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I will risk combined sweeps and bomber attacks on the same day, in an effort to get to those ships. If I just sweep first, I believe there will be no ships left in port to bomb the following day. I'll accept the losses if the turn goes bad, as I'm sure it will.

I'm officially insane. I keep trying for tactical surprise with combined sweeps and bombing attacks and I get burnt every time. Bombers go in first and get hit hard, unescorted bombers get wiped out and fragments pad Japanese stats yet again. Allied sweeps fly last and encounter no CAP left to engage. My own fault.

I lose 46 bombers to hit three ships in port...stupid of me to expect anything remotely like reality in this game. The air model has taken tactical surprise away from a player, if it always sends Allied sweeps in last. It just kills me how the AI prioritizes missions. Bah...ridiculous.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 2/28/2017 12:31:21 AM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 606

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/28/2017 1:16:48 AM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

Bombers go in first and get hit hard, unescorted bombers get wiped out and fragments pad Japanese stats yet again. Allied sweeps fly last and encounter no CAP left to engage.

You should have read my AAR!

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 607

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/28/2017 1:20:50 AM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

You should have read my AAR!

I am reading your AAR, just haven't got to that part yet. Andav mentioned I am having the same troubles you did with sweeps. I just don't get it and I'm frustrated as all get out. I could accept this once in awhile, but every time?

Did you just sweep until no opposition then bomb? Did you give up on trying to hit ships in port, or loaded airfields?

Am I way off base thinking this neuters any tactical surprise I may get on my opponent, because I have to telegraph all my bombing targets with sweeps for days on end first?

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 2/28/2017 1:22:42 AM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 608

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/28/2017 1:33:43 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Did you do any of the things/tactics I previously mentioned?

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 609

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/28/2017 2:20:35 AM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Did you do any of the things/tactics I previously mentioned?

When I can, yes. In this case I can't fly from the same base and no air HQ. But this is happening all the time to me, whether I have all of your suggestions in place. It is inexcusable for the AI to continue to handcuff me like this. It does not happen to Erik, his sweeps come first, then his escorted bombers, and they aren't flying from the same bases either. My raids get chopped up the more aircraft I use and I get slaughtered. I just want some sweeps to fly first, in this case I had 75 P-47's and 25 P-38's from three different bases and all swept last despite being closer to the target than the bombers. Even if I trade 1:1, or heck even 1:2, against the CAP, my bombers would be facing a hell of a lot less fighters, but no, they get sacrificed every time no matter what I do. I can't conduct combined missions and it sucks big time and totally unfair. I never used to have these problems, something has changed that I don't know the fix for. I've never seen it in any of my other games where it's so consistent that my sweeps don't fly first.

I hope this doesn't come out wrong, but I'm not an idiot, insane apparently, but not an idiot. I don't have a frigging clue what works and doesn't in this game anymore. Even if I order only two squadrons to attack the same base, from the same base, same HQ...etc., the bombers reach the target before the sweeps almost every time no matter what I try.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 2/28/2017 2:32:23 AM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 610

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/28/2017 2:57:58 AM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

I don't understand why you couldn't have:

Assigned one bomber to a night run.

Assigned some LRCAP.

Assigned escorts to your bombers.

Why you can't have an air HQ with your bombers. They make a huge difference. I don't know if your bases are overstacked squadron or plane wise and what the morale, fatigue and ledership of your squadrons are. It is hard for me to comprehend that you would undertake a major bombing campaign without an HQa with great skill in 1944 as the Allies.

If your bombers are going in at a lower altitude than your fighters are sweeping, that can account for the timing problems.

Why, knowing that there are enemy fighters at the base, and in numbers, simply sweep a day before the raid. It is Darwin, as I understand it, those high SR Japanese planes aren't going anywhere.

Attempting a shore bombardment. I don't recall seeing a map of what you have nearbye, but even running in a Fletcher task force to bombard at night can really cause havoc.

You are giving us very partial information and blaming the AI, but Japan isn't having the problem. So I would posit it isn't all the AI's fault.

This is all constructive criticism. I just got butchered in the air, probably worse than you. Bad weather, sweeps coming later, being outplayed. To me, that you don't have complete control over the units is one of the games greatest attractions.

One thing you can try is, if there are no ships in the area, assign your bombers to naval strike first and airfield strike secondary mission. Of course the field the bombers pick to hit will be commanders discretion but with some selective recon and range settings you can finesse that. Your bombers will hit in the afternoon, after the morning sweeps.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 611

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/28/2017 4:39:00 AM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Jul 15, 44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 63 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 21 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 6
A6M5b Zero x 45
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 49
Ki-84a Frank x 37

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 3
B-24D1 Liberator x 22
P-38J Lightning x 69

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 2 destroyed, 12 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
P-38J Lightning: 3 destroyed

Japanese Ships
LST T-113, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
LST T-115, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
S-305 Hikotai with A6M5 Zero (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 12000.
Raid is overhead
Ominato Ku S-1 with A6M5b Zero (7 airborne, 22 on standby, 13 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 3 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
16 planes vectored on to bombers
19th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (6 airborne, 14 on standby, 17 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 4000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
9 planes vectored on to bombers
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (22 airborne, 17 on standby, 10 scrambling)
22 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
13 planes vectored on to bombers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 68 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 5
A6M5b Zero x 35
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 42
Ki-84a Frank x 33

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 6
B-24D1 Liberator x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 2 destroyed
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
B-24D1 Liberator: 7 destroyed, 4 damaged
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Port hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x B-24D1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
S-305 Hikotai with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters to 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 82 minutes
Ominato Ku S-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 3 scrambling)
27 plane(s) not yet engaged, 2 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
19th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
30 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 37 minutes
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 19 scrambling)
19 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 29 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 2
A6M5b Zero x 12
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 27
Ki-84a Frank x 17

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 10
P-38J Lightning x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 2 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
S-305 Hikotai with A6M5 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 2 scrambling)
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters to 6000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
Ominato Ku S-1 with A6M5b Zero (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
19th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (10 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
10 plane(s) intercepting now.
7 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
6 planes vectored on to bombers
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (5 airborne, 0 on standby, 19 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
23 planes vectored on to bombers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 1
A6M5b Zero x 9
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 21
Ki-84a Frank x 14

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
S-305 Hikotai with A6M5 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters to 6000.
Raid is overhead
Ominato Ku S-1 with A6M5b Zero (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes
19th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 2 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (17 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
17 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 15 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 1
A6M5b Zero x 8
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 18
Ki-84a Frank x 12

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
S-305 Hikotai with A6M5 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters to 6000.
Raid is overhead
1 planes vectored on to bombers
Ominato Ku S-1 with A6M5b Zero (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Raid is overhead
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (9 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
9 plane(s) intercepting now.
9 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 59 minutes
7 planes vectored on to bombers
19th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 2 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 18000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 1
A6M5b Zero x 6
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 14
Ki-84a Frank x 10

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 8
P-38J Lightning x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 5 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
P-38J Lightning: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
S-305 Hikotai with A6M5 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000 , scrambling fighters to 6000.
Raid is overhead
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (13 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
3 planes vectored on to bombers
19th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (6 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 52 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
Ominato Ku S-1 with A6M5b Zero (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
4 planes vectored on to bombers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 3
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 6
Ki-84a Frank x 8

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 7
P-38J Lightning x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 5 damaged

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
6 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers
19th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (5 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) intercepting now.
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes
5 planes vectored on to bombers
Ominato Ku S-1 with A6M5b Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes
2 planes vectored on to bombers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 77 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 2
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 4
Ki-84a Frank x 5

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 11 damaged

Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 9

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
10 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes
19th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
5 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
Ominato Ku S-1 with A6M5b Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 2
Ki-84a Frank x 2

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 8
P-38J Lightning x 1

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 5 damaged
P-38J Lightning: 1 destroyed

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes
19th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters between 12000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 13 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 27 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 2
Ki-84a Frank x 1

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 8

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 3 damaged

Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Raid is overhead
19th Sentai with Ki-84a Frank (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 23 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 42 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 1

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 21
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
21 x P-38J Lightning sweeping at 31000 feet *
23 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 31000 feet *

CAP engaged:
26th Sentai with Ki-43-IIIa Oscar (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters to 12000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 44 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 32,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 23

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
LST T-115, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 31000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Darwin , at 76,124

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 67 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 23

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x P-47D25 Thunderbolt sweeping at 31000 feet

There was escort, LRCAP and sweeps assigned for all groups. Ok...it's just me. I have no clue what I'm doing.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 612

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/28/2017 6:23:08 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
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The problem is the healthy number of Franks, even though it's just the Frank-a model. P-38s are relatively useless and toothless against anything but Zeroes and Oscars. Tojos and Tonys will beat them, Franks even more so. And Franks eat bombers for breakfast.

You need at least Corsairs on sweep here, if not Jugs. It's the only way. You've got the Jugs in position - just act like you're going to bomb next time. Recon heavily a day or two prior, and then only sweep.

Keep in mind that your opponent has a limited number of fighter units. Inflicting losses or damage on them will drop their morale (which impacts performance), not to mention the time spent to bring new airframes out of crates. If gaining Darwin is your goal, you can achieve air superiority here.

Make sure to keep an eye on his other bases if you can, to see if he is shifting assets around to meet you as you attrit his forces at Darwin.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 613

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/28/2017 2:57:00 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

July 16/44:

After the debacle the day before, I stand down all bombers and fighters excepting the P-47's. I resort to the cheap tactic of sweeps at maximum altitude (42k) sweeps and achieve 3:1 air losses against Darwin. You'd think I'd feel better with that loss ratio, but instead I just feel dirty.

I won't be flying higher than 31k from here on out, and told Erik he can fly at whatever altitude he wants. I'm done with the air model and I won't talk about it anymore in this AAR. That being said, I appreciate the efforts to help. I'm taking a break, hopefully a long break, from posting in this AAR. I am just fed up with how this game is progressing and care not to discuss it anymore.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 614

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/28/2017 3:32:25 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

Welp, best of luck.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 615

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 2/28/2017 3:38:14 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Welp, best of luck.

Yep, not much more you can say.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 616

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/14/2017 5:33:52 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

I gave myself a two week timeout to relax and try to figure things out before posting again.

I've been experimenting with some settings, but truth be told, I have no idea why my air units are being committed the way they are. I've definitely started to just perform sweeps missions on certain days, then ordering bombing attacks on follow up days. On the days my bombers go in, sometimes the sweeps go first, others they don't. Same target, same settings but different results each day.

So I tell myself daily to stop fighting the air model and go with what it does. I have started sweeping at max altitude and my fighters are getting at least a 2:1 now. I haven't tried a heavily capped base though. I am trying to discipline myself away from hitting the stronger Japanese capped targets, because then everything gets screwed up and my bombers get shredded. I've started more night bombing as well. Results aren't great, but at least I'm not losing 40-60 bombers per raid.

I'm concentrating on turns in both my games and there isn't much free time to update the AARs.

I'm just done fighting the mechanics. I'll go with what works and right now that is sweeps at maximum altitude. If I drop down in altitude, it's rinse and repeat with massed escort and LRCAP.

Not much has happened, I liberated Darwin...again, but have since pulled back to avoid naval bombardments. The base remains in Allied control so far. I destroyed a number of tanks and equipment Erik couldn't air transport out.

I have a large resupply mission underway for Ponape with all my carriers and CVE's committed to provide cover. So far 40k supply has been unloaded on day 1. I'm also withdrawing U.S. 93rd Division from Ponape for deployment elsewhere. I'll continue to unload supply until the amphibious task force loads up the division, then I withdraw. No sign of KB yet and I'm taking a completely defensive stance. All fighters to 100% at range 0 over my carriers. I'm playing against a Japanese eight hex strike. I've left my transports to rely on Ponape's own land based CAP, but I figure if large Japanese strikes come they will go after my CVs.

There was some good news during the approach to Ponape. I had mistakenly positioned a few small supply and support task forces ahead of my carriers and they were spotted. I decided to pull these task forces back to meet up with my carriers, but forgot to change the orders for an ACM and it went on ahead to Ponape. Erik sent in a small four destroyer surface TF to catch my lead supply transports, instead they find and sink the lone ACM and end up within range of my carriers. It looks like three of the destroyers in total were sunk.

I also set a long range Vindicator naval strike from Gove and it caught a small Japanese transport task force, sinking two xAKLs and a PB.

I'm happier with my play of late and moving forward I hope to avoid any more drama. I just need to accept the game for what it is and play accordingly.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 3/15/2017 5:36:16 PM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 617

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/14/2017 5:50:11 PM

Aurorus

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline

The "air" ratings or your squadron and HQ commanders is the check that is made for coordination. Leadership checks determine how many bombers fly, but escorts will link up with bombers only if both make their "air" HQ check. Sweeps will proceed raids if the sweeping fighters, HQ, and bomber squadrons all make their "air" check. The Air HQ needs to be in command range of both the sweeping fighters and the bombers in order to add its "air" rating to the check. Without an HQ in command range of both the sweeping fighters and bombers, both squadrons can make their check and still fail to coordinate properly. It becomes random without an HQ which arrives first. Using bombers of the same type in a combined raid improves the effective "air" rating of the squadron commanders and the likelihood of coordination. This is, I believe, how the AI works, more or less.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 618

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/15/2017 5:33:29 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

July 30/44:

Central Pacific:

Supply at Ponape has reached 110k. All but 2400 cargo of U.S. 93rd Division remains to be loaded. Transports will remain one more day to unload the last of the supply. The carriers have already been issued their marching orders and they will head ESE to support amphibious landings in the Marshall Islands.

Burma:

Troops are being reorganized for the push against Prome. I've chosen three options:

1. Mass everything and assault the wooded 2x terrain hex between Prome and Toungoo, then directly west to Prome avoiding any river crossings.
2. Use the unrestricted Chinese units to launch a river crossing directly against Prome, followed by the rest of the army the next day.
3. Maneuver to cut the rail line from Prome to Rangoon and see if Erik withdraws.

Erik has committed all the Japanese armour forward in Burma. There are 1500 AFVs at both Prome and Toungoo with another 250 AFVs in the wooded hex. I could be facing over 3000 enemy AFVs. Erik may not like me massing my ground units, but what choice do I have when I face this kind of opposition? No stacking works both ways and if Erik has 1500-2500 AV in any one hex, I need at least a 3:1 to even have a chance. Factor in forts and terrain and that jumps up to at least 5:1. I really dislike playing without stacking limits.

Thoughts:

I'm risking one titanic naval battle to get Allied forces onto Mindanao and bypass the formidable defences now in the Marianas, Babeldoab and New Guinea. In light of this, I will not move until October, after all my CVE's upgrade their AA suites. I'm going to need every flattop, AA gun and aircraft to pull this off. It's not how I wanted to play the game, but by virtue of how things have developed, I feel I have no choice. I'm fully prepped for all my objectives, but I have to make sure they arrive intact, that will require the strongest navy I can muster. Two more months of sitzkrieg, then all hell will break loose.

In the meantime, I apply as much pressure as I can with limited means until the big day.

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 619

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/15/2017 5:42:40 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Sqz, this game is a lot like golf -- very humbling at times.

Glad to see you posting again!

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 620

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/16/2017 10:15:52 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Sqz, this game is a lot like golf -- very humbling at times.

Glad to see you posting again!

No dice rolls in golf.

Thanks Lowpe. I've probably alienated most of the community, so your comment is much appreciated.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 3/16/2017 10:16:51 PM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 621

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/16/2017 10:22:26 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

Do you know how to tell an experienced golfer from a duffer? The experienced golfer makes excuses for poor performance prior to making the shot, the duffer makes excuses after blowing the shot.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 622

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/16/2017 10:24:54 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Do you know how to tell an experienced golfer from a duffer? The experienced golfer makes excuses for poor performance prior to making the shot, the duffer makes excuses after blowing the shot.

Luckily, I'm a better golfer than AE player!

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 623

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/17/2017 7:20:58 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

July 31/44:

The month ends with a bit of a spanking. Eric nails Silchar with hundreds of Allied bomber and transport aircraft on the ground with no AA and fighter CAP. A painful reminder to not get complacent. All told I lose 48 aircraft on the ground.

Painful, but not the end of the world. It will give me a chance to reorganize my forward air bases and deploy aircraft in a better fashion. I've pulled all the bombers and transports out of theatre to see the effect on supply in Burma. Other than the transports my bombers weren't flying any missions at all other than training.

I thought about a knee jerk reaction with massive sweeps, but passed on it. I'll wait until ground operations commence. I see no point in losing more pilots and planes just because I got caught with my pants down.

I've readjusted my air dispositions on New Guinea to make sure this doesn't happen again.

The Ponape resupply mission is complete. Transports and my carriers are withdrawing. If Erik is going to react it will occur next turn before I'm out of range from Truk. All told, 150k of supply and 20k of fuel was unloaded at Ponape and U.S. 93rd Division was withdrawn. I didn't know, but from reading a Max Hastings book the 93rd was a coloured division in the Army. It has a tough next assignment...Yap.

Much of the British Fleet is now deployed to Australia and tasked with supporting the liberation of Western Australia. I wonder if Erik would send KB to try and knock the British Fleet out of the war. After Australia is liberated, I can't decide whether to send the British to support operations against Burma, or combine it with the U.S. fleet in my effort to trash the Combined Fleet.

The Allied LCU reinforcement queue for the remainder of 1944 is drying up. I need to get moving with what I have, which is plenty.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 3/17/2017 7:22:17 PM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 624

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/20/2017 5:16:32 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

Ok defenders of the air model, I have some questions.

I'd like to start a discussion on how to beat low CAP and what the engine is doing.

I was going to send a bit of a rant to Erik regarding the latest air combat we just engaged in, but that seems counterproductive. So I'd rather post here and see if people are willing to help me figure things out, instead of me just getting mad about it.

Here's what happened.

I sent three sweeps against Hollandia during the August 4/44 turn. The three sweeping squadrons were Corsairs. I assigned no escort, but rather numerous combinations of LRCAP. I'll try to break it down as best I can.

Sweeps were set to 15k, 31k and 36k (max altitude of the Corsair is 36k).

I set LRCAP at 10k, 15k, 20k, 31k, 36k, 41k, 42k and 44k. These were P-47's, Hellcats, Spitfires, P-40N's, Lightnings both J's and L's (L's have max altitude of 44k) and Corsairs.

Japan got radar warning and plenty of reaction time, but the CAP still only arrived in driblets. All Japanese CAP was set to 5k, 7k and 9k. So I'm thinking I have early numbers, height, speed and firepower on my side. But I barely eeked out a 1.5:1 loss ratio. What is happening?

During the combat, I suffered nearly 90% of the dive. Luckily, it wasn't the bounce dive where the Japanese CAP was on my six, but still...it was Japanese dive after dive after dive. I get the radar put some of the CAP above me, but for example my P-38L's set to 44k were all dived on, as were my P-47's set to 42k...all dove on. Why is my LRCAP not getting a height advantage, why does my LRCAP or sweeps for that matter, not dive on Japanese CAP that has dove on my low LRCAP at 10k and 15k? Where is my speed advantage to avoid the dive in the first place?

I didn't lose a single Corsair set to sweep...are they even really engaging? I had very few passes done by the Corsairs. Is it just my LRCAP engaging? Why is my LRCAP beign sucked down low enough for Japanese CAP to get the dive...why is it not the other way around, especially when I've set aircraft at 44k and Japan doesn't even have a fighter that can reach that altitude?

I'm not a developer, or programmer, but it seems like I need to be in order to beat this low CAP. I don't understand what is happening and why my aircraft are being brought down in altitude to suffer dive attacks consistently. I don't understand why all the different altitudes aren't creating more dive opportunities for my aircraft, rather than the Japanese CAP getting all the tactical advantages. On the day I lose more P-47s and P-38's then any other aircraft...yet they are my high LRCAP. What gives? The P-38's were dived on again and again despite the highest altitude settings.

I read in tiemanj's AAR that he tested sweeping down low? The whole advantage of Erik's low CAP settings is to get the maximum number of CAP up as quickly as possible to swamp the low numbers of Allied fighters I can assign to a sweep mission. When I go low I'm getting swamped. The only way I can counter the Japanese numbers is to assign a crazy amount of escorts and LRCAP, but they aren't preforming how I expect at those altitude settings. I have tried just using sweeps before and they don't do well. They achieve no better than 1:1 no matter at what altitude they are set to. So what are some answers?

I am not a developer or programmer, I'm not going to 'test' how to manipulate the air model. I'm just a player, that assigns my units as best I can, yet hardly ever achieve better than 1.5:1 loss ratios against low layered CAP. I don't know how to game the engine, but I'm getting very tired and frustrated by having to face someone that knows how to game the engine. I need answers on how to beat the low CAP.

I am asking for help in understanding why my aircraft are underperforming and why I can't compete against the low CAP at better than 1.5:1.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 3/20/2017 5:24:36 PM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 625

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/20/2017 6:31:38 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
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Can sweepers have escorts?

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 626

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/20/2017 6:39:08 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Can sweepers have escorts?

I have noticed that sometimes they pick up fighters that are on escort or even on LRCAP.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 627

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/20/2017 6:58:35 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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A few questions:

What was the range? Do you have a well led HQa at the airbase? Did they fly from the same air base? Were all airbases under the influence of an HQa, preferably the same one?

Were your planes and pilots rested? Fatigue on both? Average A2A skill and defense skill of your pilots? Well led squadrons?

What was the enemy resistance? Number of planes and types?

It sounds like from your description it was a real hornets den of enemy fighters, given your huge LRCAP presence.

I am not sure on the positive effects of LRCAP for sweepers. It actually might be detrimental.

Given the information you gave me this is what I would do:

Good recon on the base and a sub there is possible.

1. Send a squadron of bombers in at night (HR limitation, right). I wouldn't expect much, but I wouldn't sweep until they actually bombed once.

2. Sweep at best maneuver band with my best sweepers. In general I like to sweep with at least 2/3rds of the number of defending planes present. If 300 planes are defending I want to sweep with at least 200 and then only if my planes are better than his.

So, out of the planes you listed I would use the Jugs and Spitfires and Corsairs (for numbers). On the third day, I would bomb at night, sweep during the day and might fly a squadron of Jugs at max altitude too, and this time throw all the planes at him sweeping. On the fourth day I would bomb at night, sweep and bomb during the day with 4E. Something like that.

If I could I would try for naval bombardment too.

Lightnings aren't good enough to sweep first line un-fatigued Japanese fighters in mid 44 anymore.

It seems to me you had fair results for the first day for sweeping a major base with only 3 squadrons (and corsairs at that) set to sweep with no night bombing or shore bombardment prior. To be honest I don't see your complaint.

I think that is pretty much the same advice I gave last time you asked. And Japan isn't pursing some mystical understanding of the game engine. Rather they are using their high maneuver planes to their best advantage. He seems to have a big base, plentiful AV support, HQa, good leaders and pilots, and lots of radar.

The Japanese are using tactics pioneered by LoBaron, the Elf, Alfred, and others advocated since the beginning of the game.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 628

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/20/2017 7:16:59 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

A few questions:

What was the range? Do you have a well led HQa at the airbase? Did they fly from the same air base? Were all airbases under the influence of an HQa, preferably the same one?

Three bases: Dagua, Madang and Hansa Bay...two air HQ's at Madang. All fighters within range of the HQ's. Halsey is the Air HQ leader.

Were your planes and pilots rested? Fatigue on both? Average A2A skill and defense skill of your pilots? Well led squadrons?

Rested, no fatigue...best pilots I have and best leaders I can muster...pilots 70+ experience with 70/70+ skill in air and defense.

What was the enemy resistance? Number of planes and types?

Base showed 242 fighters...Georges, Jacks, Tony's, Oscar's and Franks. I will post the combat report when I get home.

It sounds like from your description it was a real hornets den of enemy fighters, given your huge LRCAP presence.

I am not sure on the positive effects of LRCAP for sweepers. It actually might be detrimental.

Given the information you gave me this is what I would do:

Good recon on the base and a sub there is possible.

1. Send a squadron of bombers in at night (HR limitation, right). I wouldn't expect much, but I wouldn't sweep until they actually bombed once.

2. Sweep at best maneuver band with my best sweepers. In general I like to sweep with at least 2/3rds of the number of defending planes present. If 300 planes are defending I want to sweep with at least 200 and then only if my planes are better than his.

So, out of the planes you listed I would use the Jugs and Spitfires and Corsairs (for numbers). On the third day, I would bomb at night, sweep during the day and might fly a squadron of Jugs at max altitude too, and this time throw all the planes at him sweeping. On the fourth day I would bomb at night, sweep and bomb during the day with 4E. Something like that.

I can only night bomb with one bomber group, 50 bombers max by HR. I'm lucky it I even get 2 airbase hits at 12k. If I fly lower I'm losing 10+ bombers to FLAK.

If I could I would try for naval bombardment too.

Lightnings aren't good enough to sweep first line un-fatigued Japanese fighters in mid 44 anymore.

It seems to me you had fair results for the first day for sweeping a major base with only 3 squadrons (and corsairs at that) set to sweep with no night bombing or shore bombardment prior. To be honest I don't see your complaint.

The more sweeps I commit, the more aircraft I lose and it takes weeks to recover. I'm trying fewer sweeps with more support to try and keep my losses manageable. If I sweep as you suggest, base don what has happened previously in this game, I'll lose 50% of my fighters. Again, the Allies can't sustain those losses when the Japanese are trading 1:1.

I think that is pretty much the same advice I gave last time you asked. And Japan isn't pursing some mystical understanding of the game engine. Rather they are using their high maneuver planes to their best advantage. He seems to have a big base, plentiful AV support, HQa, good leaders and pilots, and lots of radar.

Ok, point taken...Erik is using his aircraft to their best ability. What is the Allied best ability...I thought speed and firepower were the Allies' best weapons, how is it they don't seem to function very well against low CAP? My maneuver bands don't really improve for most Allied fighters the lower they go...their ratings are pretty static across most maneuver bands...so why are they not performing better at any particular altitude? It can't come down to just what the Japanese do, how to commit the Allied fighters so they get all the benefits of their design too?

The Japanese are using tactics pioneered by LoBaron, the Elf, Alfred, and others advocated since the beginning of the game.

Understood, but then why are they not also stating how to beat low CAP? They know it's a numbers game and low CAP gets the Japanese airborne pretty damn quick. What's the counter? I have tried individual sweeps as you mentioned and the first two or three get swamped and suffer catastrophic losses, sure my follow up sweeps face less resistance and the numbers even out, but that's the problem...there is no way the Allied can sustain a successful air campaign at 1:1. I lose entire squadrons when they sweep individually and that's unsustainable.

Ok, so 1.5:1 is an ok result...fair enough, perhaps I've been too conditioned by others that state they get 5:1 kill ratios, but I assume they are not encountering low CAP settings. Yes, it's a tough target, but they all are now at this stage of the war....what can I expect if I ever get in range of Japan. It will be more of the same and I need to learn how to counter it.

I am trying to have a discussion, so I don't see this as complaining this time...I'm just trying to understand what is occurring. The main focus of my post was to try and understand why I'm suffering getting dived on 90% of the time when I'm set higher. Is the radar putting all the Japanese aircraft higher than me? What explains why my high LRCAP is getting dived on? I'll take these results, considering I suffered huge tactical disadvantages by being dived on almost every individual fighter engagement, it was my pilot skill and aircraft that prevented this being an Allied bloodbath. I get it...the expects say use low CAP...what is the counter? Should all Allied fighters be set just as low? They know how the engine works, I don't. I'm asking how it works so I can counter low CAP. I'd really like to know why my LRCAP is being forced low....giving up the tactical advantage and getting dived on, that is the only reason these sweeps were even close...The Japanese were always above me and there never was the mix up that everyone claims is supposed to happen, because the Allied planes had maybe a total of 10 dives in these three sweep missions in total...combined.

The Allies are supposed to have great aircraft and supposedly in the hands of a great pilot almost unbeatable, yet here I am with my best pilots and aircraft where everyone says speed is king, yet I'm getting dived on...all the time.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 3/20/2017 7:44:04 PM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 629

RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obve... - 3/20/2017 7:27:20 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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Sometimes I get high kill ratios, sometimes low. Today, for instance, 20+ P-38s sweeping Manila faced about 100 Franks and Georges. Both sides lost five fighters (1:1 ratio). A few days before, Thunderbolts and Corsairs mostly scored 5:1 ratios.

So many factors influence air combat results that it can be difficult to know exactly what's happening and why. But one umbrella rule of thumb I fall back on is to not hit the enemy where he is strongest and most prepared unless I have an advantage. It seems to me you work from the opposite viewpoint, determined that the code should allow you to prevail.

You'll know that the quality of your pilots is a key factor and, correspondingly, the quality of his. If you've spent the entire game losing air battles so that his pilot corps is elite while yours is beat up...you're going to have a tough time consistently winning air battles. In that case, you've got to figure out a different way to come at the issue.

If your pilots are equal to his and both sides have planes of relatively equal quality...and he's flying only low CAP, then I'd come at him low, medium and high...if I needed to sweep that base. Sweeping aircraft at 35k probably won't be able to interact with enemy aircraft at 8k (just like CAP set at 35k is going to have a tough time intercepting enemy bombers coming in at 10k).

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 630

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