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RE: WitE 2 - 1/25/2017 5:17:30 PM

wpurdom

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EwaldvonKleist - don't disagree about the quantity of air power on the Eastern front. But if the game engine for either WITW or WITE2 gets the right measure for the effect of a squadron of planes supporting a battle, that problem should take care of itself.
It may well be posts of yours that I was reacting to. I read some of the links of earlier posts. An apparently good case for low numbers of hard kills. Still the overall friction affect of air against armor on the western front seens clear, so I was speculating on how it may have manifested itself and how it could be modelled.

(in reply to wpurdom)

Post #: 1261

RE: WitE 2 - 1/25/2017 9:40:01 PM

EwaldvonKleist

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Longer reply:
Air combat: As already mentioned: Imo planes as tank busters are overestimated. Tanks have the protection to resist shrapnels and shockwaves, so you need very heavy bombs or direct hits to kill them. The effect of bombing against soft targets or the transports is a completely different thing. I have not digged deep enough into the air war to comment much on this. Just one more thing: Soldiers reporting that they were scared of planes is a bad indicator. A soldier is probably scared by everything which can kill him. What counts are numbers of destroyed manpower and ressources.

Pockets: IMO the % of personnel escaped should be calculated based on the situation at the time of surrender. If it is a result of a 6 side attack, almost no one will escape. If the pocket is loose and the unit is attacked from one side only, many should escape. But always most equipment should be lost, usually soldiers care more about their life than the artillery.

Fatigue: According to van Crefeld, the German army, also caused by the experience from WW1, was very good at managing fatigue and exhaustion among the troops (unlike for example the americans), especially if one considers they never had real reserves to shuffle around. Not sure about the Soviets. Of course no soldier likes to be on the front and will not be happy to fight. Many got psychologic problems caused by the intense fighting. But this is not of interest here. The only important question is: To what extent was the fighting capability reduced by exhaustion? A mentally ill soldier can still be a good fighter.
The thing is: You can run your car engine for a month with 4000-6000rmp all the time in the first gear and you will suffer a breakdown.
Or you drive in a high gear and you can drive for 10 years. If I got Crefeld right, its the same with soldiers.

Experience: Agree that it is a kind of Sqrt(time) function aka most is gained in the first time.

Officers:
What exactly do you mean with "they (the Germans) diluted their officercorps"?

Manpower: I agree, that the Germans ran dry on manpower. But the Soviets, as far as I know, had similar problems. If the soviets lost to much, they should too have problems to get enough first class recruits.

(in reply to wpurdom)

Post #: 1262

RE: WitE 2 - 1/26/2017 8:39:42 AM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wpurdom

...

The comments on ground support by air are interesting. There seems a great deal of support for the idea that air power is too effective at kills on armored targets. You can't go too far in nerfing air power, though. It seems clear that the presence or absence of air power was huge, including immobilizing mobile divisions. Air power was enough to guard Patton's flanks the tanks don't run or fight without ammo and gas, and the change of weather seems to have been huge in the Ardennes campaign. Perhaps one needs fewer kills and more disablements of AFVs by air power as well as more attrition of the internal supplies and MPs of the fighting unit, particularly on interdiction assaults on moving units. I suspect that a lot of the breakdowns of German tanks were caused directly or indirectly by air power.

If you have WiTW you can test out the model quite well by using the Breakout scenario.

Just sticking to relatively direct intervention in ground combat, you have three options:

a) ground support ... much as in WiTE, your air units appear when a battle breaks out
b) interdiction - but your target is the unit
c) interdiction - but you hit anything that moves in a geographical area

With the allied airforces for a few turns you can generate eye watering levels of interdiction over specific targets. What tends to happen say for (c) is if a Pzr division moves (either as a reserve reaction or as a chosen move) it will run into that airpower. Most of the direct losses in the first instance are disruptions. However, if it either carries on moving under intense air attack or enters combat then the game engine has a routine to turn disrupted elements into damaged elements (or destroyed).

So it tends to be incremental, move a short distance under heavy interdiction and you have a fatigued, beaten up unit that will probably recover if given time. Enter combat in that shape and you will take heavier losses as the unit has already lost cohesion etc.

Plane type has an impact too. 2 engined level bombers bomb from a high altitude and will mostly disrupt. Ground attack aircraft (such as Typhoons in WiTW) come in lower and may get some outright kills as a result - even on armoured targets.

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Post #: 1263

RE: WitE 2 - 2/12/2017 4:51:17 PM

TomaszPudlo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100
With the allied airforces for a few turns you can generate eye watering levels of interdiction over specific targets. What tends to happen say for (c) is if a Pzr division moves (either as a reserve reaction or as a chosen move) it will run into that airpower. Most of the direct losses in the first instance are disruptions. However, if it either carries on moving under intense air attack or enters combat then the game engine has a routine to turn disrupted elements into damaged elements (or destroyed).

So it tends to be incremental, move a short distance under heavy interdiction and you have a fatigued, beaten up unit that will probably recover if given time. Enter combat in that shape and you will take heavier losses as the unit has already lost cohesion etc.

Will night movement be an option?

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 1264

RE: WitE 2 - 2/12/2017 7:27:50 PM

RedLancer

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We discussed this at length for WitW Dev and decided that with week long turns it was a level of detail too far. As WitE2 has lower air interdiction you can assume that it won't be an option (although I may be proved wrong again).

_____________________________

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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to TomaszPudlo)

Post #: 1265

RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2017 11:59:12 AM

kch

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Any chance of having the impact of command and control simulated in WITE 2? I have recently read "the Viaz'ma catrastrophe" regarding the operations in late 1941, and it really does an excellent job at explaining the massive C&C failure on the Soviet side, that completely negated other factors.

I would love to see something like the asymmetrical turns in Flashpoint Campaigns or the activation rolls in some of the AGEOD games. I need not be so drastic as in the AGEOD game but could be handle like a movement/supply/attack modifier that make units with poor C&C stick to their current positions and difficult to use in a proactive manner.

I realise that it is very difficult to implement without it completely breaking the game.

< Message edited by kch -- 2/13/2017 12:00:37 PM >

(in reply to RedLancer)

Post #: 1266

RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2017 6:54:20 PM

Tejszd

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Agreed, I would love to see the WEGO system used in those games plus previous ones like V for Victory and World At War games from Atomic in WITE 2.

(in reply to kch)

Post #: 1267

RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2017 7:52:12 PM

morvael

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I will start such project as soon as I will win a lottery.

(in reply to Tejszd)

Post #: 1268

RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2017 7:56:30 PM

EwaldvonKleist

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Its quite easy we just need to make a multi-millionaire a passionate eastern front wargamer so he will pay a group of developers to make a WEGO WITE size game. So if you one day meet one, you know what's your job.

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 1269

RE: WitE 2 - 2/13/2017 8:38:03 PM

morvael

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Yes, still waiting for one such individual. Thought sillyflower with his castle is such a rich man, but he refuses to fund my, er..., research.

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)

Post #: 1270

RE: WitE 2 - 2/14/2017 2:39:09 AM

Icier

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I was going to fund you, but then I found something better, or so I thought, than WITE.....WOMEN!
So now I have nothing.

_____________________________

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 1271

RE: WitE 2 - 2/15/2017 8:09:33 PM

jzardos

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Any news on a WitE2 release? Still possible for 2017? Will be looking for the Beta testers link

Yes, WEGO would be very cool for a game like WiTE.

Cheers,
Jason

< Message edited by jzardos -- 2/15/2017 8:11:24 PM >

(in reply to Icier)

Post #: 1272

RE: WitE 2 - 2/15/2017 8:12:43 PM

jzardos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

WitE Released Dec 2010
WitW Released Dec 2014
WitE2 Release ??

Maybe the start of a trend, although I can assure you one that's unintentional. There is a post somewhere in here where I went into a little more detail about why it might take more or less than 4 years, but really in the final analysis the "it's done when it's done" pretty much sums up where we're at. When we're alpha testing the full war (right now just testing 1941 other than AI vs AI tests), that will be a major milestone. When we're beta testing instead of alpha testing, that will be another major milestone. We do appreciate the interest and I wish I could give you a better idea of the timing.

Ok, did find this post...

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 1273

RE: WitE 2 - 2/21/2017 12:09:51 PM

kch

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Any chance that we could have halftracks and carriers added in as individual pieces of equipment? I.e. just like trucks, these vehicles should also suffer attrition and losses even if the squad that they are carrying isnt knocked out.

(in reply to jzardos)

Post #: 1274

RE: WitE 2 - 2/21/2017 3:24:35 PM

RedLancer

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I think that your wish has already been granted. This is because of the new chassis production system. To create key equipment like a Panther or a Jagdpanther you first need a Pz V chassis upon which to build the rest of the vehicle. So to build a Mech Inf Squad which includes a HT - you must have a HT chassis first.

< Message edited by Red Lancer -- 2/21/2017 3:25:12 PM >

_____________________________

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WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to kch)

Post #: 1275

RE: WitE 2 - 2/21/2017 4:19:48 PM

shermanny

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That depends what period of the war you're talking about. The Lvov-Sandomir Soviet offensive of July 1944 is a good example.

The Germans were well dug in. They had 16 Pz, 17Pz, and 20 PzG in reserve. They had chosen their terrain well. They got reinforcements during the battle, including 23Pz and 24 Pz.

The upshot was that the Soviets advanced about 150 miles in four weeks, at the cost of 289K casualties, 65K permanent. They lost 1300 AFV and 1800 guns. (C J Dick, From defeat to victory, page 132).

The Axis lost 45K POW at Brody, and maybe 150K all in all for those 4 weeks. So that's a loss ratio of 2 to 1, and close to 1 to 1 in permanent casualties.

(in reply to Blind Sniper)

Post #: 1276

RE: WitE 2 - 2/22/2017 7:42:18 AM

kch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

I think that your wish has already been granted. This is because of the new chassis production system. To create key equipment like a Panther or a Jagdpanther you first need a Pz V chassis upon which to build the rest of the vehicle. So to build a Mech Inf Squad which includes a HT - you must have a HT chassis first.

Sounds great! Will the losses also be tracked?

(in reply to RedLancer)

Post #: 1277

RE: WitE 2 - 2/22/2017 12:19:02 PM

No idea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

I think that your wish has already been granted. This is because of the new chassis production system. To create key equipment like a Panther or a Jagdpanther you first need a Pz V chassis upon which to build the rest of the vehicle. So to build a Mech Inf Squad which includes a HT - you must have a HT chassis first.

Sounds great! Will the losses also be tracked?

They are already tracked, or what do you mean?

(in reply to kch)

Post #: 1278

RE: WitE 2 - 2/22/2017 1:29:58 PM

kch

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haha... What I meant is whether halftrack losses will show up in the command reports

(in reply to No idea)

Post #: 1279

RE: WitE 2 - 3/30/2017 9:00:04 AM

robinsa

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Will there be a feature for us to extract our current game data (situation) into a CSV file? I would love if there was an option to do it automatically during the same moment every turn (for example when production is calculated). This would allow the player to keep a historical record of his campaign is developing and also help us learn from our mistakes! The more information (statistics) I get the more interesting it gets! The in game interface is not bad once your learn how to use it but it is not as flexible as for example excel when you quickly want to know ratios and historical trends.

(in reply to HMSWarspite)

Post #: 1280

RE: WitE 2 - 3/30/2017 2:45:42 PM

Hermann

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Longer reply:
Air combat: As already mentioned: Imo planes as tank busters are overestimated. Tanks have the protection to resist shrapnels and shockwaves, so you need very heavy bombs or direct hits to kill them. The effect of bombing against soft targets or the transports is a completely different thing. I have not digged deep enough into the air war to comment much on this. Just one more thing: Soldiers reporting that they were scared of planes is a bad indicator. A soldier is probably scared by everything which can kill him. What counts are numbers of destroyed manpower and ressources.

Pockets: IMO the % of personnel escaped should be calculated based on the situation at the time of surrender. If it is a result of a 6 side attack, almost no one will escape. If the pocket is loose and the unit is attacked from one side only, many should escape. But always most equipment should be lost, usually soldiers care more about their life than the artillery.

Fatigue: According to van Crefeld, the German army, also caused by the experience from WW1, was very good at managing fatigue and exhaustion among the troops (unlike for example the americans), especially if one considers they never had real reserves to shuffle around. Not sure about the Soviets. Of course no soldier likes to be on the front and will not be happy to fight. Many got psychologic problems caused by the intense fighting. But this is not of interest here. The only important question is: To what extent was the fighting capability reduced by exhaustion? A mentally ill soldier can still be a good fighter.
The thing is: You can run your car engine for a month with 4000-6000rmp all the time in the first gear and you will suffer a breakdown.
Or you drive in a high gear and you can drive for 10 years. If I got Crefeld right, its the same with soldiers.

Experience: Agree that it is a kind of Sqrt(time) function aka most is gained in the first time.

Officers:
What exactly do you mean with "they (the Germans) diluted their officercorps"?

Manpower: I agree, that the Germans ran dry on manpower. But the Soviets, as far as I know, had similar problems. If the soviets lost to much, they should too have problems to get enough first class recruits.

theres a few errors here. in 41/42 tanks weren't heavy and artillery was a factor, the game doesn't really actually factor in mne damage which was the big threat or at gun damage which was a threat as well. The tanks were very heavily overweight and this was a key in many design decisions such as short guns and THIN ROOF ARMOR. this meant that planes equipped with 20mm cannons were very successful in destroying tanks from above. Germans managed exhaustion with amphetamines and accidents from driver fatigue were frequent. im a bit shocked about your comment on reserves. the combat was intense casualties were enormous and the units exposure to cobat itself n a pitched battle very short - battles were fed by constantly feeding n reinforcements piecemeal from from other formations and leaving the command staff in place for continuity.the examples being far too numerous to cout but there some excellent accounts in the Germany at war series as well as a superb divisional analysis showing that permanent losses were pretty small for the majority of units through much of the war. the key factor in vdeterming casualties is in fact and has been for known history determined by mobility or the ability to ride down ones foes. the game models it nicely in the first winter and casualties are pretty accurate, a units exposure to combat was for the most part minimal and during intense combat even smaller due to force rotation it was only when a unit was overrun that problems arose. that damage factor being determined by the density of the opposing attack, one of the core issues in the game model and I agree with you in this case is the multi front attack if a unit is attacked simultaneously from opposite directions by an INFANTRY unit casualties should be much higher. DEVELOPERS NOTE A pocketed units casualties need to be determined by the presence of infantry as a percentage of the attacking force, the current model is fatally flawed and reflected in the tactics of pelton type strategists such as yourself. a unit forced to surrender by a tank unit should get a higher percentage of troops escaping than one screened by infantry - dramatically so to the point it affects player tactics in a substantial way. it would change the game dynamic in a positive manner

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)

Post #: 1281

RE: WitE 2 - 3/30/2017 3:02:42 PM

Hermann

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sorru for the repeat lotta stuff to respond to the Officer corps was diluted prior to war in the east. Reserve officers were brought in from ww1 veterans this worked ok for officers of major and above but junior officers were the key. Geran officers were staff trained to the point that they uniformly came up with nearly the same response to all common problems. that helped commanders in that they knew the basic direction the their subordinates would take and helped the germans to intermingle units and command staffs in a flexible way. as casualties mounted this changed You had the basic officer types Career and reserve. now the germans had to Brevet a higher percentage of officers with no staff training into temporary positions, and use non commissioned officers in the officer roles that's dilution.

(in reply to loki100)

Post #: 1282

RE: WitE 2 - 3/30/2017 4:12:40 PM

EwaldvonKleist

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quote:

planes equipped with 20mm cannons were very successful in destroying tanks

. I would be interested in statistical proof for this. Tank commanders who were scared from planes are not enough IMO.

Fatigue/attrition/morale: I discussed the psychological attrition and the morale decay. The Americans had a lot of troubles with that, Germans less. I don't see what your point/disagreement is here. I did not talk about lethal attrition.

Losses: So you argue for more losses from retreat, less from fighting?

C&C philosophy:

quote:

Geran officers were staff trained to the point that they uniformly came up with nearly the same response to all common problems

I am sceptical about this. The German army emphasized the "Auftragstaktik" a lot. As far as I know, the Taylorism-approach of giving clear advice for every situation was more USA or Soviet union stuff. The Wehrmacht demanded from every commander that he is capable of doing the job of a commander who is two ranks higher, do you mean this?

Officer corps dilution: I first used a wrong translation of "dilution", therefore the confusion. I agree here.

Escaped POWs: You suggest, that the percentage of infantry should decide about the number of escaped soldiers. It should be the total number instead.

Pelton tactics: Please explain how the surrender mechanics are connected with Pelton tactics.
I can be happy if I have 5% of the knowledge of Pelton, but I take this as a compliment

Edit: It is important to emphasize the use of statistics and hard data, not stories, if you simulate something. As far as I know Pelton was/is a data guy (here was a somewhat unfair comment which I deleted, I apologize).

I am impatiently awaiting the last volumes from askey where he will discuss his approaches to Wargaming Barbarossa. I hope that he will do an in detail analysis of the different types of losses for his simulation engine.
Greetings

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 3/30/2017 8:22:14 PM >

(in reply to Hermann)

Post #: 1283

RE: WitE 2 - 3/30/2017 7:16:56 PM

Hermann

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Hi Hermann, I am always willing to discuss such things, but I am not a native speaker so I have troubles to understand the details if the text is written sloppy.
So please try to bring in more structure or write me a PM in German. No disrespect, but it explains possible misunderstandings.

Aircraft vs. Tank: As already mentioned, I am no expert in this field. Comments are based on early war:
A1) Penetrating the tank armour with small projectiles and destroying the tank are different things.
A2) Aircraft density on the Eastern Front was low. Not that many German planes and Soviet ones weren't used efficient.
A3) Hitting a moving tank with a fast flying plane is not easy if the cannons are fixed in frontal direction. If you fly too fast the time window is short, if you fly slow, you are easy prey for the flak.
A4)
quote:

planes equipped with 20mm cannons were very successful in destroying tanks
. I would be interested in statistical proof for this. Tank commanders who were scared from planes are not enough IMO.

Fatigue/attrition/morale: I discussed the psychological attrition and the morale decay. The Americans had a lot of troubles with that, Germans less. I don't see what your point/disagreement is here. I did not talk about lethal attrition.

Losses: So you argue for more losses from retreat, less from fighting?

C&C philosophy:
quote:

Geran officers were staff trained to the point that they uniformly came up with nearly the same response to all common problems
I am sceptical about this. The German army emphasized the "Auftragstaktik" a lot. As far as I know, the Taylorism-approach of giving clear advice for every situation was more USA or Soviet union stuff. The Wehrmacht demanded from every commander that he is capable of doing the job of a commander who is two ranks higher, do you mean this?

Officer corps dilution: I first used a wrong translation of "dilution", therefore the confusion. I agree here.

Escaped POWs: You suggest, that the percentage of infantry should decide about the number of escaped soldiers. It should be the total number instead.

Pelton tactics: Please explain how the surrender mechanics are connected with Pelton tactics.
I can be happy if I have 5% of the knowledge of Pelton, but I take this as a compliment
Edit: It is important to emphasize the use of statistics and hard data, not stories, if you simulate something. As far as I know Pelton was/is a data guy (+some uncontrolled aggression).

I am impatiently awaiting the last volumes from askey where he will discuss his approaches to Wargaming Barbarossa. I hope that he will do an in detail analysis of the different types of losses for his simulation engine.
Greetings

< Message edited by EwaldvonKleist -- 3/30/2017 5:01:26 PM >

First on Pelton - He probably has Asperger's which isn't a bad thing. Symptoms are a lack of empathy, extreme mental focus and usually exceptional intelligence. He cant help his outbursts and doesn't understand why others take offense. give him the respect he deserves and don't judge without considering the impact of autism. I respect him even more for his accomplishments under the disability.

Lets go with tanks vs. aircraft specifically or Aircraft vs. Mech/Mot formations in general. clarify that and we can talk. As you can see I am a fan of Hermann Balck and that case in point is perfectly clear but 1943 is out of our discussion as were talking early war. We can start with Russian tanks first. BT Series and T26 were the main body of the Russian forces the t60 light and t28 and t35 medium. bt7 had 6mm or 1/4 of top armor... ap MG aircraft rounds could easily pierce and 20mm like butter 100kg bombs and 250 easy kill with direct hit which is rare T26 same top armor t35 at 11mm still easy kill for 20mm at any angle harder for mg and t28 at 20mm t34 and kv pretty impossible. German planes were designed for vertical approach as opposed to Russian horizontal bombing and were much more accurate. Armor makes up a small proportion of a mech/mot formation and the remaining assets easy prey so both sides ground attack units were highly effective add to that the lebgth of the military columns and the poor road net and soft terrain forcing units to stay on roads and expose themselves. now we hit command and control. the Russians to a great extent and the germans a minor relied on visual signals early war to maneuver tank formations. Germans had radio but only the Russian tank commanders did. so bombing and forcing units to button up destroyed unit cohesion and resulted in higher collateral losses. some weapons have a far great indirect effect.
dilution means that German staff trained officers could perform the job of a rank 2 higher. as the war progressed the staff trained officers were diluted and replaced with officers that had trouble transitioning to higher command.

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)

Post #: 1284

RE: WitE 2 - 3/31/2017 8:03:56 AM

RedLancer

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Please try and keep this thread on topic which is about WitE2 and not the diagnosis of former forum members mental health.

So leading by example this post by Joel on the Steam WitE forum may be of interest.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Hermann)

Post #: 1285

RE: WitE 2 - 3/31/2017 11:43:44 AM

Platypus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Longer reply:
Air combat: As already mentioned: Imo planes as tank busters are overestimated. Tanks have the protection to resist shrapnels and shockwaves, so you need very heavy bombs or direct hits to kill them. The effect of bombing against soft targets or the transports is a completely different thing. I have not digged deep enough into the air war to comment much on this. Just one more thing: Soldiers reporting that they were scared of planes is a bad indicator. A soldier is probably scared by everything which can kill him. What counts are numbers of destroyed manpower and ressources.

### SNIP ###

A little off topic - but still relevant to WitE2 content....

Here are historical reports about a Luftwaffe commander Hans Uhlrich Rudel.
He flew over 2,500 sorties on the East Front, with claims of over 500 AFV kills.
This was in the Video footage of JU-87 G in actionJU-87 G model with the slow-firing twin 37mm anti-armour cannons.

Perhaps Rudel's unit SG 2 should be included in the ORBAT for WitE 2.

Sources:

Amazing Stuka Facts

Video footage - JU-87 G in action

Hans Rudel - Eagle of the Eastern Front

< Message edited by Platypus -- 3/31/2017 11:44:30 AM >

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)

Post #: 1286

RE: WitE 2 - 3/31/2017 2:23:09 PM

RedLancer

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StG2 is in WitE2 with all their insignia less 10.(PzJ)/StG2.

If you know which element Rudel was in then he can even be added as a named pilot.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Platypus)

Post #: 1287

RE: WitE 2 - 3/31/2017 6:19:23 PM

Denniss

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According to Wiki he started Barbarossa in 1./StG 2 which was part of I./StG 2

(in reply to RedLancer)

Post #: 1288

RE: WitE 2 - 3/31/2017 11:27:05 PM

Hermann

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my argument is the same as always. Supply. Rail is the only way to carry supply and rail lines have a capacity. unlimited supply to a point at the end of a rail line has to stop to avoid the insanity of 30-40 panzer divisions fully supplied at the end of 1000 mile line rail line with 2 tracks. a system of depot counters is the best option with supply actually traveling to the counters and a real capacity in the depots

(in reply to Denniss)

Post #: 1289

RE: WitE 2 - 4/1/2017 4:34:09 AM

Platypus

Posts: 29
Joined: 2/16/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

StG2 is in WitE2 with all their insignia less 10.(PzJ)/StG2.

If you know which element Rudel was in then he can even be added as a named pilot.

As per the earlier references [Eagle..], Rudel finished the war as a Colonel [Oberst] and CO of the StG2 squadron.
He continued flying following a below knee amputation of his right leg.

@ Red Lancer: I am interested in how you include individual leaders like this into the gameplay?
Example: Does he, as the CO add substantial morale to his unit, or are the combat modifiers adjusted in other ways. Most importantly, how do you still ensure game balance??

The Soviets also had soldiers and pilots with impressive combat records.
One of these was fighter Ace, Ivan Kozhedub, who finished the war as a Soviet Marshal.
In July 1944, he was posted to the 1st Belorussian Front as vice commander to the 176th Guards Fighter Regiment, and received La-7 No. 27, in which he scored his final 17 victories.
Marshal Kozhedub was rated as the highest Allied pilot ace of WW II.

Source:Soviet air Ace - Ivan Kozhedub

< Message edited by Platypus -- 4/1/2017 4:35:27 AM >

(in reply to RedLancer)

Post #: 1290