British morale in Egypt

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British morale in Egypt - 4/3/2017 3:11:28 PM

Fintilgin

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Joined: 4/14/2005
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Am I missing something? In my games British morale in Egypt seems abnormally low, often consistently in the 50% - 60% range. Even if they're in good supply right next to a city & HQ.

I noticed this both with the AI (who were easy to chop up with AK) and with my own Brits.

Post #: 1

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/4/2017 2:22:29 AM

battlevonwar

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try putting the British Units next to a supply source for longer, make sure their full strength and supply reads out at least 6 or 7 and then wait a turn or two. Also is this after surrenders? If nothing else sack the lower rated General and replace him with the best you can afford and try that. Also what's your Infantry Doctrine Research level?

(in reply to Fintilgin)

Post #: 2

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/4/2017 1:39:34 PM

Fintilgin

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Joined: 4/14/2005
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I'm going to start a fresh game (for a variety of other reasons too) and keep a close eye on things with screenshots if needed. It seemed buggy/weird, but it could have been user error.

(in reply to battlevonwar)

Post #: 3

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/4/2017 3:50:20 PM

Leadwieght

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Anyone else find that British supply in Egypt is often worse than Axis? Even with an HQ?

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Post #: 4

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/4/2017 4:08:49 PM

vonik

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Joined: 4/8/2011
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Not really .
With Malta on, Axis supply is generally bad and the moral varies between correct for the German and horrible for Italians. I saw cases where every town between Beghazi and Tobruk was at supply 0 .
Rommel has a good rating (what is not the case for Italian HQ) but when he must stay in a town or 1 hex beside because of supply, it severely limits the DAK mobility .

When I play Allied, the Italians are slaughtered and DAK may struggle if it is not played carefully .
Of course my point of view is always against a human player . AI looses whatever the side and supply is basically irrelevant .

(in reply to Leadwieght)

Post #: 5

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/4/2017 4:51:58 PM

Leadwieght

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I am familiar with the Malta effect. What seems to be the case is that supply from Allied HQs in Egypt attenuates more sharply than is the case for Axis HQs, all other things being equal

(in reply to vonik)

Post #: 6

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/4/2017 5:30:09 PM

vonik

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Joined: 4/8/2011
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This might be the +1 hexes . Even if everything looks like desert, if you check the hexes you will see that some are +1 and some not .
So if you put your HQ on a bad place (especially around El Alamein if memory serves), you will see a sharp drop . But this works for both sides .

(in reply to Leadwieght)

Post #: 7

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/4/2017 7:14:18 PM

Fintilgin

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I didn't know there were +1 hexes? Where is this detailed or shown? You're not just talking about the hill tiles?

The supply system in this series is so weird and unintuitive anyway. Example from when I was playing the other night:

1.) AI British tank unit retreats to Silwa Oasis as I push on Alexandria. Didn't want to waste time digging it out, so left a single Italian unit to 'screen' it and keep it down there.

2.) Same tank unit eventually races out around my Italian screen and takes an ungarrisoned coastal town, cutting my supply lines!

3.) Except I don't have supply lines. Rommel continues to generate full supply indefinitely(?) because he's sitting in El Alamein, and my offensive continues on to take Alexandria and Cairo while dispatching a couple units to go take out the tank.

A little

and a little

< Message edited by Fintilgin -- 4/4/2017 7:16:13 PM >

(in reply to vonik)

Post #: 8

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/5/2017 3:08:44 AM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
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quote:

left a single Italian unit to 'screen' it

That doesn't work with the mechanics of SC3. To have success and advance you need to take Resources [towns, cities, etc.]. Siwa Oasis is often a pain in the butt to the Axis [and I wonder if Jarabub Oasis should be represented on the Axis side].

Regarding UK supply in Egypt, Bill has recommended having two UK HQ's there, in order to gain the chain benefit. In the shot below I am the Italians and you can see that the computer knows how to chain the UK HQ's.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Fintilgin)

Post #: 9

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/5/2017 1:27:47 PM

vonik

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Joined: 4/8/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fintilgin

I didn't know there were +1 hexes? Where is this detailed or shown? You're not just talking about the hill tiles?

The supply system in this series is so weird and unintuitive anyway. Example from when I was playing the other night:

1.) AI British tank unit retreats to Silwa Oasis as I push on Alexandria. Didn't want to waste time digging it out, so left a single Italian unit to 'screen' it and keep it down there.

2.) Same tank unit eventually races out around my Italian screen and takes an ungarrisoned coastal town, cutting my supply lines!

3.) Except I don't have supply lines. Rommel continues to generate full supply indefinitely(?) because he's sitting in El Alamein, and my offensive continues on to take Alexandria and Cairo while dispatching a couple units to go take out the tank.

A little and a little

- no I am not talking about hill hexes . There are 2 kinds of desert hexes . Those with 0 and those with +1 . Those with +1 have a kind of green border if you click on the hex but on the map they look the same .
- I agree that the supply system is weird . As long as you have a HQ you have full supply if you keep it near towns . This limits seriously Blitzkrieg strategies because there is no advantage and incentive to cut ennemy's supply lines .
As every damn unit drows supply from towns regardless whether they are cut off or not, it gives more of a WWI gameplay where mobile manoeuvers and pocketting are mostly a waste of time .

(in reply to Fintilgin)

Post #: 10

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/5/2017 7:28:30 PM

Happycat

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Chaining HQ's and ensuring that they are fully reinforced to "10" is a good plan, and resting units after a couple of rounds of combat is very important. So far in my MP games I have not seen an issue with CW supply in North Africa.

Fintilgin, it will be interesting to know if you see this supply issue again with your re-start.

_____________________________

Chance favours the prepared mind

(in reply to vonik)

Post #: 11

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/5/2017 7:33:04 PM

Fintilgin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Happycat

Chaining HQ's and ensuring that they are fully reinforced to "10" is a good plan, and resting units after a couple of rounds of combat is very important. So far in my MP games I have not seen an issue with CW supply in North Africa.

Fintilgin, it will be interesting to know if you see this supply issue again with your re-start.

I'll definitely let the thread know one way or another, once I get time to start again. I'm willing to concede it might be operator error unless I can demonstrate something.

Could be those +1 hexes... seems weird and uninuitive but haven't had a chance to look at them in-game. Is that really a thing? Are there other hexes like that in other locations? I feel like those should be shown graphically somehow (deep desert?).

(in reply to Happycat)

Post #: 12

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/5/2017 8:03:03 PM

Happycat

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fintilgin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Happycat

Chaining HQ's and ensuring that they are fully reinforced to "10" is a good plan, and resting units after a couple of rounds of combat is very important. So far in my MP games I have not seen an issue with CW supply in North Africa.

Fintilgin, it will be interesting to know if you see this supply issue again with your re-start.

I'll definitely let the thread know one way or another, once I get time to start again. I'm willing to concede it might be operator error unless I can demonstrate something.

Could be those +1 hexes... seems weird and uninuitive but haven't had a chance to look at them in-game. Is that really a thing? Are there other hexes like that in other locations? I feel like those should be shown graphically somehow (deep desert?).

Yeah I think the +1 hexes are a real thing. Do you use the "s" key to forecast next turns supply? It's quite useful to do so, as you see your current supply and then the effect that will be obtained by moving HQ's.

_____________________________

Chance favours the prepared mind

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Post #: 13

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/5/2017 8:29:50 PM

sPzAbt653

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The +1's are Desert hexes. For example, the Great Sand Sea which is south of the Siwa Oasis.

(in reply to Fintilgin)

Post #: 14

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/5/2017 9:12:19 PM

vonik

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As I said since the beginning . There are desert +1 hexes but not all are +1 .
You can identify them by passing the mouse tip over them, you will see the + 1 movement inscription .
They also show a slightly different icon when clicking on them (a green border) .

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 15

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/7/2017 9:50:46 PM

Guderian1940

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Allied supply in NA is not working right. The Germans are nearly invincible with supply the Allies wiped out. I took back Tobruk as the Allies and basically just wasted a unit via ANVL. Seems out of whack. No kind of defence will work. The Unit in Tobruk was an Army with 1 inf and 1 AA. The Germans doubled back and wiped it our with hardly a sweat and took out a couple of units in the front line.

All you need to do is support the Italians early, before DAK, and you will run over the Brits.If you add tac Air it is unstopable no matter what you do. There is actually a rail line to El Alamein and it seems not to help at all.

< Message edited by Guderian1940 -- 4/8/2017 6:29:40 AM >

(in reply to vonik)

Post #: 16

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/7/2017 10:10:59 PM

FriendlyKomissar

Posts: 65
Joined: 1/24/2017
From: Scotland & Leningrad (Spb)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Guderian1940

Allied supply in NA is not working right. The Germans are nearly invincible with supply the Allies wiped out. I took back Tobruk as the Allies and basically just wasted a unit via ANVL. Geramns and Italians attacked like it was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Christmas for them. BAd BAd BAd, Need to look into this serioulsy.

I would agree with this. I have seen German players stick massive forces into North Africa (e.g. 3 Pz Armies and 2 mechanized armies) and they march on quite the thing. I thought supply was supposed to be difficult for the Germans in Africa? Wasn't the lack of Petrol the deciding factor for Rommel being halted?

_____________________________

Wisely keeping out of Comrade Stalin's way.

(in reply to Guderian1940)

Post #: 17

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/7/2017 11:10:27 PM

battlevonwar

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I defended Egypt quite well against a uncommitted Axis opponent. It takes a lot of resources to take take Egypt. Add all this up pre-Barbarossa:

2-3 Tanks/2-3 possibly 4-5 Air fleets/4-5 Infantry Units with HQs.. Possibly up to 4 HQs! Now Transport all that and against all the reinforcements the UK gets it takes a nightmarish amount of time to get to TransJordan. What does Germany get out of the deal precisely in PPs and when?

Is it worth it?

The Malta Effect has a % per turn chance of hitting Libyan/Egyptian Supply centers and that happens after a set date. From that point on I have seen 1 Supply common in Libya which is slow going unless you push all-in. Though by the time Barbarossa starts which is more economical. Pushing and holding? Abandoning or taking the cake?

Certainly I have taken the cake personally more than once though not with ease against a devoted opponent. UK gets a ton of units free in Egypt with Events. Germany had more divisions stationed in the Balkans at the the height of the war in North Africa!(no wonder they lost there, I think Norway had more even, ALONE!)

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 4/7/2017 11:11:57 PM >

(in reply to FriendlyKomissar)

Post #: 18

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/8/2017 2:08:53 AM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

The Germans are nearly invincible

Have you seen the 'Supply for Dummies' thread in the War Room ? It's not too difficult to reduce Supply Levels in Africa.
German players stick massive forces into North Africa
I feel like there should be a Third Reich-ish limit, maybe if a supply line to a major capitol cannot be traced, then the number of supply-able units is restricted based on ports ?

(in reply to Guderian1940)

Post #: 19

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/8/2017 4:00:41 PM

FriendlyKomissar

Posts: 65
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From: Scotland & Leningrad (Spb)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

The Germans are nearly invincible

Have you seen the 'Supply for Dummies' thread in the War Room ? It's not too difficult to reduce Supply Levels in Africa.
German players stick massive forces into North Africa
I feel like there should be a Third Reich-ish limit, maybe if a supply line to a major capitol cannot be traced, then the number of supply-able units is restricted based on ports ?

I would agree with this point. Having a strong German army being able to attack through the middle east, Persia and into the Caucasus without a direct supply line is a bit strange

_____________________________

Wisely keeping out of Comrade Stalin's way.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)

Post #: 20

RE: British morale in Egypt - 4/8/2017 7:56:42 PM

battlevonwar

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Joined: 12/22/2011
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It isn't very good supply in the MidEast ever, it's worse than Russia depending on the zones. The Persian mountains are dreadful. Turkey is the only way for the Germans to get good supply on the MidEast. That or constant resupply missions that take forever.(to enemy Capitol and back again)

I just want to reiterate something imagine 3 or 4 HQs to support just 10 frontline units. What really does the Russian Bear to have to do to answer this? If she cannot answer this I think there is a huge question as to whether or not you have defended Egypt proper. Perhaps you should look more at an Engineer Unit there? Or Engineer in the Caucasus!

3 to 4 HQs = massive logistical issues and a lack of units and HQs elsewhere A good Ally should make the Axis pay for taking Egypt as is and the MidEast as well. I had one make me wait till Mid '42...

If you're losing the MidEast too early as the Allies you're doing something wrong!

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 4/8/2017 8:59:38 PM >

(in reply to FriendlyKomissar)

Post #: 21