RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-B Scen28

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RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/20/2017 1:34:45 PM

jwolf

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Do you need to repair the APAs before you can launch another amph operation? If so, where could you repair them? (unless you can get Soerabaja quickly

)

That took a lot of guts to plow into and through all the mines.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1591

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/20/2017 8:51:21 PM

apbarog

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Joined: 5/23/2002
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Looking at the damage, APA Callaway is probably usable, but the others should be repaired first. I certainly have enough to unload 2 divisions in one day. I just unloaded an Indian division and the huge Chinese corp in one day.

Honestly, there weren't as many mines as I thought. I was able to sweep all of them on invasion day. Unfortunately, 15 or so mines were swept the hard way. I suspect that it was effective to have many minefields with fewer mines than one big minefield. But that's just my observation.

If I can take Soerabaja quickly, it was worth it. If Walker continues to focus there, and maybe even reinforces Java more, it was worth it.

Thinking about his carriers, I'm guessing that they headed north from Singapore to the Indian Ocean. They could interdict my cargo route to Cox's Bazar (which would make me very happy that they are in an area of insignificance), or go around the tip of Sumatra and come "south" and challenge Java from the other side of the island, or interdict shipping that Walker may think is going from Perth to Java (it isn't).

(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 1592

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/21/2017 6:21:44 AM

apbarog

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3 Oct 43

Landing of a couple of unit fragments continue at Soerabaja. LSTs unload lots of supply. One LST is hit by a 24cm T45 howitzer battery, and another LST is damaged while beaching.

At Probolinggo, midget sub Ha-28 spots the badly damaged and slowly moving destroyer Monssen, fires 2 torpedoes, and one hits, sinking the destroyer. Then midget sub Ha-26, also at Probolinggo, spots badly damaged LST-471 passing by, fires 2 torpedoes, and sinks the LST with one hit. Nice work by the midget subs. You don't see that every day. There were many other midget sub encounters, all ending badly for the subs. 4 more midget subs sunk today.

Cruisers Cornwall and Mobile bombarded Probolinggo on the way home. They had been covering invasion shipping. Good results.

Battleship Nevada bombarded Soerabaja, with good results.

Battleship Arizona bombarded Tjepoe, hoping to hit the 3rd Tank Division there. Damage was light to moderate to the facilities, but only one gun of the tank division was hit.

Southeast of Cam Ranh Bay, sub Sculpin spots a big tanker convoy, but there is no engagement. Then Sculpin spots an ACM escorted by 2 PBs, and hits one patrol boat with a torpedo, probably sinking it.

31 Hellcats swept Madioen, with about 10 planes lost for each side. A mix of Zeros, Oscars, and Tojos were there, totaling about 60 planes on CAP. B-24s then arrived, and did good work on the airfield and destroyed about 10 Oscars on the ground.

25 P-47s swept Magwe, finding 36 Zeros and 41 Oscars. About 8 enemy planes downed for the loss of about 4. P-38s then swept, downing about 4 and losing 2. The first appearance of the P-51 Mustang took place over Magwe. 25 P-51As swept last, finding 17 Zeros and 19 Oscars, destroying about 4 planes and losing 2.

At Tjepoe, another 80 C-47s dropped more of the Indian 14th LRP Bde. Unfortunately, I learned that the 3rd Tank Division was kicked out of Strat mode with the para shock attack yesterday, so today the tank division attacked, got 39 to 1 odds, and disabled just about every para squad. About half of the para unit is now at Tjepoe, but 90% of its combat squads are there, with about 90% of its support left behind at Mataram. The Indian para unit will be lost tomorrow. Dropping on the enemy armor as it was on trains heading to Soerabaja and forcing them to detrain at Tjepoe was a stroke of luck, mostly good luck, as it kept the enemy from reinforcing Soerabaja. The Indian 14th LRP Bde deserves special recognition

At Probolinggo, the 193rd Tank Battalion attacked the 2nd Field Artillery Regiment and took the base.

Last but not least:

Ground combat at Soerabaja (56,104)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 56898 troops, 603 guns, 890 vehicles, Assault Value = 2151

Defending force 17279 troops, 164 guns, 216 vehicles, Assault Value = 457

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Allied adjusted assault: 2523

Japanese adjusted defense: 181

Allied assault odds: 13 to 1 (fort level 2)

Allied forces CAPTURE Soerabaja !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
8815 casualties reported
Squads: 112 destroyed, 218 disabled
Non Combat: 310 destroyed, 79 disabled
Engineers: 39 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 89 (59 destroyed, 30 disabled)
Vehicles lost 191 (190 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Units retreated 10

Allied ground losses:
663 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 40 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 5 destroyed, 70 disabled
Vehicles lost 18 (2 destroyed, 16 disabled)

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
50th Cmbt Engineer Regiment
50th Tank Brigade
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
17th Indian Division
5th Chinese Corps
5th Indian Division
I Marine Amphib Corps
602nd Field Artillery Battalion
17th Indian Light AA Regiment

Defending units:
38th Division
16th Recon Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
104th Ship Eng Coy
Southwest Area Fleet
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
40th JNAF AF Unit
91st JAAF AF Bn

The enemy retreated into the mountains at Malang, where they now show movement to the west. It remains to be seen if Walker will really move them all west, or just defend to the last man in the mountains at Malang. I would stay put, and tie up units for awhile. It would take quite an army to dig them out of the mountains any time soon. I'm leaving an Indian division at Soerabaja, and moving the 2 armor units, an Indian division, and the big Chinese corp out to the west. They may or may not be able to encircle the enemy units at Malang, depending on how fast the enemy moves, or if it does at all. I'm preparing to encircle if I need to, then gain control of all of the hexsides, and then leave a small holding force to pin the enemy. I'm not rushing to engage the 3rd Tank Division at Tjepoe. I now want to take my time and give Walker a chance to send more reinforcements to Java, while I build more airfields and make the most of the gem of Soerabaja.

Soerabaja is taken. The airfield and port are very damaged. It now has 84,000 supply and 28,000 fuel, as well as 111,000 oil. I may have delivered 10,000 supply, so it's quite a windfall of resources. Shipping will arrive delivering lots of support units. Aircover will be weak, with the carriers leaving, and just relying on some LRCAP from Denpassar, 4 hexes away. This should be ok for one day, until Walker sees that the carriers have left. I was tempted to strike Palembang, but with no recon there at the moment, I couldn't be sure of finding tankers, and I decided it wasn't worth striking the oil with carrier aircraft. Not when I will soon be able to do so with the heavies.

I'd like to clear Java, but remember, my plan was to try to steal Soerabaja quickly and keep Walker engaged here. I think that is working. The next big operation will kick off from Balikpapan, which is overstacked and getting more so. I need about 3 days for all of the needed units to switch out of strat mode and into combat mode.

My losses so far for the Java operation are 3 PT boats, a YMS, an LST, and a DD. I'll risk a damaged LST in Soerabaja's shipyard for now, but the other damaged ships are heading to safer ports, some with ARDs waiting.

Oh, and today the Allies have taken the lead in victory points.

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(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 1593

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/21/2017 1:31:52 PM

jwolf

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Fantastic result at Soerabaja -- well worth the sacrifice at Tjepoe, as well as the mine casualties. With Java under siege, it's hard to believe the Japanese would commit a major CV fleet to the Bay of Bengal. But who knows?

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1594

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/21/2017 2:57:38 PM

Macclan5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: apbarog

Thinking about his carriers, I'm guessing that they headed north from Singapore to the Indian Ocean. They could interdict my cargo route to Cox's Bazar (which would make me very happy that they are in an area of insignificance), or go around the tip of Sumatra and come "south" and challenge Java from the other side of the island, or interdict shipping that Walker may think is going from Perth to Java (it isn't).

Congrats and very great update vis a vis Soerabaja.

Nicely feinted - nicely executed.

The position of this major task force is a curiosity. Of all places to send the remaining IJN assets the Indian Ocean strikes me as a major mistake. To Hong Kong or Saigon.. or CRB. "Shorten the lines of communication and support" not the opposite... but.... ??

_____________________________

A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1595

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/21/2017 5:10:42 PM

apbarog

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Just speculation on my part. All I know is that KB left Singapore about 3 days ago. My South China Sea subs haven't noticed a jump in D/L. And nothing seen near Java. So I'm guessing around the other side of Sumatra or north to raid my shipping into Burma. Just guessing right now, though.

(in reply to Macclan5)

Post #: 1596

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/23/2017 6:22:06 PM

apbarog

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4 Oct 43

A more quiet day. A couple of enemy units, probably armor fragments, moved out of Malang. Still more there. A couple of Allied armor units moved west out of Soerabaja. They will continue to the southwest to intercept the enemy units leaving Malang. I hope that Walker evacuates Malang completely. I don't want to deal with the mountainous terrain.

Two more midget subs were sunk today. None sighted during the day. The surviving ones appeared to head west of Soerabaja to safe ports. One did take a shot at an xAP at Soerabaja, but missed.

South of Cam Ranh Bay, sub Grunion spots a big tanker convoy with big tankers. But Grunion fires 2 torpedoes at PB Nishimi Maru, hits with one, and probably sinks the ship.

Then, south of Soc Trang, sub Salmon spots a different tanker convoy, and hits big tanker Yamaoka Maru with one torpedo. The ship was loaded with fuel, and is burning, and most probably sank. This attack is notable because it occurred in the shallow water a bit further west. I've generally avoided the shallows with subs, but this time I got away with it. Walker may be sending the tankers in the shallows from Singapore up towards Saigon, and then hugging the coast. Not sure yet. He'll come to the conclusion eventually that he'll have to do this.

B-24s hit Madioen's airfield, but do minimal damage in bad weather.

The enemy's 3rd Tank Division continues to mop up the 14 LRP fragment at Tjepoe. 150 to 1 odds destroyed about half of what's left of the unit. Allied armor, now adjacent to Tjepoe, would need 2 more days to reinforce Tjepoe, and there just isn't enough time to save the paras. As I said before, those paras are the heroes that made conquering Soerabaja a one-day affair, delaying the enemy armor at Tjepoe.

I considered beginning loading at Balikpapan for one of the next invasion spots, but all of the units aren't quite ready. I want to land at two locations simultaneously, and load all of the first target's units together, with support units, and they aren't all in combat mode yet. Tomorrow.

Walker is unavailable for turns through the weekend, so I'm taking my time with this turn, and sending it to him on Sunday. Next turn won't be until Monday, at the earliest.

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(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 1597

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/23/2017 8:46:40 PM

apbarog

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4 Oct 43

A look at the South China Sea. Using Balikpapan as a big submarine base has greatly increased the patrol time for the subs.

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Post #: 1598

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/24/2017 9:10:04 PM

apbarog

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Macclan5, I am responding to your War Room thread "Seeking some experienced advice about the "restricted Indian Divisions'. Advice / Observations. " I couldn't do so there, as my deployment of Indian/Brit units the Pacific have been important, and I don't want to give Walker my strategy.

First, note that my game is a DBB game, and the OOB does vary from the unmodded game. I've had to be careful with upgrading Indian units (as well as Australian units). Some units have odd TOEs after upgrading. I think some just follow radical historical changes in TOE. Others may just be incorrect.

I did recently purchase the restricted 23rd Indian Division. It has a nice strength. I'm working on filling it out with '43 devices, but it is going into battle for me as reinforcements in the fight near Akyab. It's at Cox's Bazar, about to get to the fight.

I have 4 other Indian divisions that are not restricted and being used actively. I don't recall if I bought any of these out. The 5th and 17th Indian divisions are in Soerabaja now. The 11th Indian division is in the fight near Akyab. Finally, the 39th Indian Division is in the jungle near Chittagong, holding the line in a hex with a part of the Imperial Guard Division.

Other restricted Indian units have been key in the push to Cox's Bazar, as that is still in Burma. Any further movement south requires unrestricted units. I used restricted ones as much as I could, saving the unrestricted ones for the push to Akyab.

A side note - I've moved Indian LRP units to the Pacific, and they have made some key para drops, taking some bases along the way, north of Australia. With enough C-47s in the area, these units are nice to use.

I long ago decided not to fight a major offensive in Burma. My push to Akyab will probably stall after taking Akyab, with good defensive terrain beyond it, including a river crossing. Future reinforcements to the theater are being saved for a landing elsewhere in the area, not for adding to the front.

(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 1599

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/29/2017 12:59:54 AM

apbarog

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5 Oct 43

It was a busy day for the US subs. Sub Tambor, in the shallows near Pescadores, spots an xAK convoy. No engagement.

Then Sub Skipjack spots a huge convoy near Laoag, with tankers and xAKs, fires two torpedoes at a patrol boat, and misses.

Sub Billfish then spots a big tanker convoy near Soc Trang, just inside of the deep water area. Billfish gets one torpedo hit on TK Kyokuzan Maru, and it is carrying fuel. It is burning and surely sunk. Billfish then gets another attack, and hits tanker Hiburi Maru, which is also loaded with fuel and now burning, and surely doomed. A great day for Billfish. Two tankers!

Sub Sturgeon is spotted by 4 E boats, south of Hengchun, China in the shallows. No engagement.

Sub Spearfish is also in the shallows near Swatow, China and takes one good depth charge hit from a patrol boat escorting at least one xAKL.

Sub Flying Fish torpedoes PB Ogashima near Subic Bay.

Near Hong Kong, in the shallows, sub Tambor is found by E boats, and takes a good depth charge hit.

At Tjepoe, on Java, the enemy 3rd Tank Division eliminates the rest of the 14th LRP Bde. About half of the unit survives on Mataram. It begins to rebuild, and preps a new target, far, far away...

Today the Allied troops on the road near Akyab are reinforced by a new big Indian division. We attack.

We also attack at Boela with the one division still there. B-25s support.

Balikpapan is the center of activity for future operations. US carriers refuel and move outside of the port, to await transports which will start to load for the next invasions. I moved some TKs and AOs to Balikpapan to refuel my carriers. With just a size 4 port, only about one big task force can refuel per day. I got everything refueled in one day this way.

In an effort to accelerate progress, I am going to make more use of my less efficient xAPs in my landings. The combat troops will still unload quickly using the APAs, but I will be bringing the support troops on other ships. It's time to get things really rolling while the enemy is focused on Java. I hope to land at destination "A", covered by carriers, while troops for destination "B" are loading, then move them to destination "B" with the carriers moving there next, etc. There could be as many as 5 separate landings done one after the other in this manner. My limiting factor is simply the shipping needed for the troops.

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(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 1600

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/30/2017 7:13:44 AM

apbarog

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6 Oct 43

Sub Aspro finds an AK task force south of Hong Kong, just in the deep water. Aspro misses an AK with 2 torpedoes, and takes a depth charge hit from an E boat. Damage is light but enough to warrant a trip to base.

At Cox's Bazar, 3 enemy destroyers make a repeat appearance, and find PG Herald and 2 xAKs unloading supply. All Allied ships are sunk. I've noticed a pattern with Walker's movements to Cox's Bazar, in that the ships retire to the dot base to the south (the one that is always talked about for pushing supply into China...I've forgotten the name). Anyhow, it would be nice to get some mines there. I will work on that.

At Magwe, 25 P-40Ks sweep, and find 28 Oscars. The Oscars get the advantage and down about 4 Warhawks, losing a couple of their own. B-24s then bomb the oil and the airfield. About 10 planes are destroyed on the airfield, and the working oil at Magwe is now down to 36. Several bombers are downed by a strong flak presence.

On Java, Walker makes a very rare bombing run on Allied troops. Lilys and Marys, escorted by Oscars, bomb Allied armor west of Malang. Some tanks are disabled. The Japanese then attack, but find a much stronger Allied force. Allied armor will counter-attack today. A victory in this hex isolates the troops left at Malang.

In the contested hex near Akyab, lots of Allied medium bombers hit the enemy troops, softening them up for an attack. Results are poor in the jungle terrain. Hoping for disruption.

The Americal Division attacked at Boela, getting 1 to 2 odds and reducing the forts to 0. 432 enemy losses and 260 US losses. We're wearing them down. The enemy is noted to still have supply. Some must be arriving by sub and/or plane. The base should fall fairly soon. The other division that was here is now fully prepped but still recovering in Australia. Now that the base looks like it will fall without this other division, I started to prep it for a new target.

In the contested hex between Cox's Bazar and Akyab, an Allied attack gets 1 to 1 odds, causing 1097 enemy casualties, and taking 518 casualties. This hex will be taken very soon. We attack again today. The enemy will probably retreat into Akyab, and we will follow. There's just one small unit at Akyab, so it should fall quickly, as things are now. That will probably be the end of the advance in Burma for awhile.

An armada is gathering outside of Balikpapan for the next invasion. I did spot a battleship task force on the north coast of Mindanao. It is in range of my bases in the Zamboanga area, and Walker has spotted xAPs there, as well as some destroyers. He may make a run there. My 2 xAPs were unloading an air support unit, one that can provide torpedoes. I didn't quite get it all unloaded, and the xAPs and 3 DDs will now head south to safety. I'll fly in the remaining portion of the unit.

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RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/30/2017 1:53:57 PM

Macclan5

Posts: 1065
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quote:

ORIGINAL: apbarog

Macclan5, I am responding to your War Room thread "Seeking some experienced advice about the "restricted Indian Divisions'. Advice / Observations. "

First, note that my game is a DBB game, and the OOB does vary

I did recently purchase the restricted 23rd Indian Division.... at Cox's Bazar, about to get to the fight.

I have 4 other Indian divisions that are not restricted and being used actively. I don't recall if I bought any of these out. The 5th and 17th Indian divisions are in Soerabaja now. The 11th Indian division is in the fight near Akyab. Finally, the 39th Indian Division is in the jungle near Chittagong, holding the line in a hex with a part of the Imperial Guard Division.

Other restricted Indian units have been key in the push to Cox's Bazar, as that is still in Burma. Any further movement south requires unrestricted units. I used restricted ones as much as I could, saving the unrestricted ones for the push to Akyab.

Thanks for the observations.

Having followed your AAR I note you are making very effective use of Indian Divisions through a unique corridor of advance.

In fact while I didn't have a specific OOB list... I can see the divisions you were using..

...which fundamentally made me review the Indian OOB in detail in stock game !

Live and learn.

This discovery has probably occurred long time past among the experienced players but I was rather surprised by the number / firepower and eventual quality.

Further to the note about the upcoming Allied Liberation of Akyab....interesting.

1) I note in stock that permanently restricted units seem to be able to cross the border to attack / support Akylab at the least if they cannot move further another boon.

2) You dislike advances through Burma ? Due to slow movement ? Too many rivers choke points ? Weather ?

I would say your attacks there are at the very least giving your opponent pause and diverting assets you wont face in the Philippines.... he is devoting assets to bombard you and air corps...

If your attack "self stalls there" do you ramp up in the Gilberts or Northern New Guinea to add pressure on another front ?

I wonder if this is not somewhat dangerous as the natural path to re-deploy Burma forces is through the Phillipines...???

< Message edited by Macclan5 -- 3/30/2017 1:55:03 PM >

_____________________________

A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1602

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/30/2017 6:43:41 PM

apbarog

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My use of the Indian divisions, and the Chinese corp, came from my decision to not make the Burma front a major area of operations. It seemed that Walker had enough divisions here, and some reserve, to make an eventual big move here slow and costly. I didn't know what I'd do with those units in the Pacific when I started moving them out of India. But I moved a lot of units, almost 30. Most were support units. If Walker keeps a strong Burma defense, and I'm stronger elsewhere, it's a good move.

Since then, I have pushed to Cox's Bazar, and am now threatening Akyab.

As for your points:

1) Permanently restricted units are able to cross borders. The only thing that limits them is the players. We have a house rule that restricted units cannot cross borders. Pay the political points to make them unrestricted, then you can cross.

2) My dislike of Burma is just my choice. It's good defensible terrain for the Japanese. I made the arbitrary decision early that I didn't want to win the war coming from this direction. Just a choice.

With Java, I'll be happy if I clear it fairly quickly, or if Walker reinforces further and stalls my advance. Both are an Allied win. Palembang is already threatened by bombers. As bigger bases on Java become available, Palembang is doomed. If the advance stalls, Walker had committed troops that could be elsewhere, like in the Philippines. My main advance is not through Java. But taking Soerbaja, with its shipyard and big airfield, is very nice.

I have no shortage of units for the Philippines. Troops have been drawn down in the Solomons. Almost the entire US Army and Marines are available for the Philippines, around the Philippines, and beyond. The only danger in re-deploying forces away from Burma is a big Japanese offensive here, or a surprise landing on Ceylon or in India. Very doubtful. Walker does know where all of the US carriers are (near Balikpapan), but he's lost 6 medium/large carriers, and the Allies haven't lost any. He could land somewhere and accomplish nothing, in my opinion.

Walker is in trouble. I don't know if he knows it yet, though. By the end of 1943, I foresee Allied troops on Mindanao and Luzon, Java essentially cleared, Palembang's oil being bombed, north Borneo's oil destroyed, and 50 or so subs roaming the South China Sea. How long can the Japanese last with no oil from Java, Sumatra, and Borneo? I think we will find out.

< Message edited by apbarog -- 3/30/2017 6:45:40 PM >

(in reply to Macclan5)

Post #: 1603

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/31/2017 1:34:30 AM

CaptBeefheart

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From: Seoul, Korea
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Well played, and interesting AAR, sir. Your position is indeed impeccable for October 1943:

1. DEI/Borneo oil is all but cut off, captured or within B-24 range.
2. Well positioned to take Luzon and/or Formosa within a few months, offering B-29s ready bases to hit the home islands when they arrive.
3. Burma will become completely irrelevant (except perhaps for VPs at Rangoon) once northern Luzon and/or Formosa are taken.

How big are the shipyards at Soerabaja and Manila at present?

Cheers,
CC

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1604

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/31/2017 2:03:24 AM

apbarog

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Thanks Commander Cody. I think that my position is far better than my play, though. In my opinion, the war has hinged on several events, all that went poorly for the Japanese. The first was the Japanese invasion of India at Diamond Harbour. 5 infantry divisions landed but got stopped at Calcutta. After a long stalemate, the enemy evacuated, but 2 divisions were defeated. The second was the first carrier battle near New Guinea. The Allies were landing at Milne Bay. KB was to the north. I anticipated KB coming just far enough south to counter Milne Bay, but stay out of range of Allied carriers. I unexpectedly moved the carriers aggressively north toward Port Moresby, getting in range of KB on the other side of New Guinea. The key was that all of his carriers hadn't grouped up yet. They were still gathering. The third event was the second carrier battle, when the Allies were landing at Denpassar. KB came south from the Balikpapan area, and Allied carriers moved unexpectedly near Denpassar, and again got within range of KB before Walker expected a battle.

Walker has gotten increasingly shy of committing his forces aggressively. Every time he tried, he got hurt. A good deal of luck went against him. Now the Allied might is increasing, and may be unstoppable. It will be interesting to see where Walker commits aggressively. He has to. Somewhere.

Soerabaja has a size 10 shipyard. Manila is size 26.

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)

Post #: 1605

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/31/2017 1:33:51 PM

jwolf

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Soerabaja is size 8 in stock; I don't know if DBB changes it, or if Walker increased it while he owned it. But size 10 is a major improvement as now you can repair cruisers there.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1606

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 3/31/2017 6:17:40 PM

Aurorus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: apbarog

Walker is in trouble. I don't know if he knows it yet, though. By the end of 1943, I foresee Allied troops on Mindanao and Luzon, Java essentially cleared, Palembang's oil being bombed, north Borneo's oil destroyed, and 50 or so subs roaming the South China Sea. How long can the Japanese last with no oil from Java, Sumatra, and Borneo? I think we will find out.

That is how I see it. He is in very serious trouble. I can't imagine Japan surviving this situation for more than 6 months. I suspect the war will be over by July 44. It seems that he is making decisions too late, responding rather than being proactive. As you say, maybe he is timid, having lost several key engagements, but with the allies pursuing a wide-front advance, he needed to get into counter attack mode 2 months ago. It is now too late, I think. The allies can play the game safe. The Japanese cannot and must gamble some. Losing one gamble cannot prevent the Japanese from gambling a second time. That is just the nature of playing Japan. Playing Japan is like playing poker... selective aggressive play... it is the only way... unless the allies opt for a narrow corridor of advance.

< Message edited by Aurorus -- 3/31/2017 6:24:21 PM >

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1607

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/1/2017 4:02:21 AM

apbarog

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All good points Aurorus. The point you bring up about a wide front advance is a good one. There were points in this game where the front was necessarily narrow. The jump from Gove to Darwin, and the jump to Timor. I think that these were critical points where the Japanese could have reacted aggressively and possibly done well. Once the Allies were on Timor, though, many directions opened up. I went toward Java first, with the main push following, north to Celebes, then Borneo. Walker couldn't prepare for every direction.

I play the Japanese like I know that I'm going to lose every ship and plane eventually. Try to lose them wisely, making it as painful for the Allied player as possible. Do so as early as possible, hurting their morale more than anything else. Most of my games as the Japanese ended early with the Allied player giving up when things went bad early.

I know, now, playing as the Allies, that there are so many reinforcements coming, that all you have to do is survive and not throw carriers and divisions away, and you'll be ok. Patience.

(in reply to Aurorus)

Post #: 1608

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/4/2017 3:14:59 AM

apbarog

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7 Oct 43

Sub Grampus misses a subchaser near the Vietnamese coast.

West of Bataan, sub Scamp sinks another patrol boat on ASW duty.

Sub Tullibee elects not to fire at a tiny AG near Iba.

Sub Bluefish fires 4 torpedoes at TK Hakumi Maru in a big task force south of Cam Ranh Bay. All miss.

20 P-47s sweep Magwe and find 31 A6M2 Zeros. There's a noticable difference in enemy pilot skill. 15 Zeros are downed with no P-47s lost. 12 night-fighting Beaufighter VIfs sweep, and a couple are shot down by the same Zeros. This was an experiment. Trying to use night fighters during the day. We have a house rule against night bombing. Experiment not successful.

18 SBD's fly from Zamboanga, trying to hit a battleship task force at Surigao to the east, on the north side of Mindanao. A bunch of fighter squadrons at Cagayan fly ranged CAP. Some of each squadron intercepts, and I didn't assign escorts. Thought I had. No bombers reach the ships, and 15 don't return.

Near Samah, sub Haddo finds a different tanker convoy, but elects not to fire torpedoes. (Maybe it was looking at a small escort? Didn't notice.)

Sub Tullibee, regretting that it chose not to fire at an AG earlier, finds the ship again, fires 2 torpedoes, and misses.

Near Akyab, an Allied attack comes up 1 to 1 odds. 534 enemy lose, 910 friendly. We'll rest a day and go again.

West of Malang, the 3rd Carabiniers Regiment and 50th Tank Brigade attack weakened portions of 4 tank regiments and the 38th Division. Odds are 1 to 2, with mostly vehicles lost on both sides.

Malang still have some enemy, with the notable unit being an infantry regiment. This is a mountainous hex, and no movement is now seen from it. A US division is reinforcing soon from the east.

The next invasion armada will move from near Balikpapan to the northeast.

A sub west of Palembang was lit up by strong detection levels today. Is this KB? Could be. I'm assuming it is.

With an torpedo equipped base unit now at Zamboanga, I'm moving TBFs there, along with some fresh SBDs. We'll try again to go after that battleship task force, this time with escorts, and P-38 sweeps from Manado and Ternate.

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(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 1609

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/5/2017 12:51:29 AM

apbarog

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8 Oct 43

Medium bombers hit enemy troops in the contested hex near Akyab.
B-25s bomb the 3rd Tank Division which started the day to Tjepoe. Damage is light in the thunderstorms.

P-38s sweep Surigao on northern Mindanao, hoping to clear the way for SBDs and TBFs to hit a combat task force nearby. It's a good sweep, with about 10 planes downed for no loss.

Other P-38s sweep Butuan, but Zeros get the better of things, having twice the number of planes. About 4 P-38s lost. Then 21 TBFs escorted by 25 P-40Ks from Zamboanga arrive at Butuan, but find portions of 6 enemy fighter squadrons. It looks like 31 Zeros are based there, with the rest based elsewhere and contributing just a handful of fighters each. Unfortunately, and this has happened before, the naval target is a lone tiny minesweeper. The battleship task force, and anything of value, isn't seen today. AMc Mogami Maru is sunk by torpedo, at the cost of 12 P-40Ks and 11 TBFs. I decide to bring out the hammer today.

The Americal Division attacks at Boela, again, and gets a 1 to 2 attack, with about 300 casualties on each side.

West of Malang, the 3rd Carabiniers Regiment and the 50th Tank Brigade attack, get a 1 to 2 attack, and take 243 casualties. 196 enemy lost. An Indian division nearby starts to move here to reinforce.

At Tjepoe, the 5th Indian Division attacks. The enemy 3rd Tank Division was here, but moved south before combat. Tjepoe falls undefended. The 3rd Tank Division moved into the base where the big Chinese corp just moved. I'll dig in for now.

I will attack at Malang. A US division just arrived. An enemy infantry regiment is here, in the mountains. One attack will tell me whether to try to win this hex, or just move to control all of the hexsides and pin the enemy here, and let it starve. Mountains can be tough.

The next big set of invasions are approaching. US carriers and lots of invasion shipping head towards Mindanao.

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(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 1610

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/6/2017 5:44:54 AM

apbarog

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9 Oct 43

Adjacent to Laoag, just in the deep waters, sub Grayback spots one of the tanker task forces, but misses a patrol boat with 2 torpedoes. It looks like Walker is now rounding the northern part of Luzon with tankers, instead of passing north of Formosa. He has heavy air ASW on the west coast of Luzon.

4 Allied cruisers bombard the remnants of what Walker has left at Shortlands. No invasion is imminent. Just showing the flag here.

21 P-38s sweep Butuan, and have great success against A6M2 Zeros and Tojos. Then the B-24s start to arrive. Damage is light in the rain, and Liberators are downed.

Most of the B-24s go to Cagayan, and find a stronger CAP. More Liberators downed. Weather is overcast, though, and airfield damage is better, and enemy planes are destroyed on the ground. One squadron of F6F's sweep Cagayan late, flying from carriers. Losses are about even against Zeros and Oscars. The Hellcats just aren't that great with average pilots, but there are many Hellcats in the reinforcement pool. All in all, these raids were costly but necessary.

B-25s bomb enemy troops near Akyab.

B-25s bomb enemy troops west of Malang on Java. Over 200 casualties. Enemy troops at Malang are also bombed.

B-24s bomb Makin, for training, if nothing else.

US troops attack in the mountains at Malang. The attack goes at 1 to 2, and the level 3 forts aren't touched. Even so, the enemy casualties are 638 and the Allied losses are 182. Lots of armor here probably helps.

And in the hex near Akyab, the Allies finally win the day with a 3 to 1 attack:

Ground combat at 55,44 (near Cox's Bazar)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 37739 troops, 707 guns, 907 vehicles, Assault Value = 1128

Defending force 15983 troops, 209 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 202

Allied adjusted assault: 753

Japanese adjusted defense: 247

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3860 casualties reported
Squads: 163 destroyed, 30 disabled
Non Combat: 145 destroyed, 52 disabled
Engineers: 10 destroyed, 8 disabled
Guns lost 61 (36 destroyed, 25 disabled)
Vehicles lost 30 (19 destroyed, 11 disabled)
Units retreated 6

Allied ground losses:
651 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 36 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Guns lost 15 (1 destroyed, 14 disabled)

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
18th Australian Brigade
11th Indian Division
23rd Indian Division
255th Armoured Brigade
641st Towed Tank Destroyer Battalion
16th Australian Brigade
268th Motorised Brigade
29th British Brigade
2/9th Fld RAA Regiment
XXXIII Indian Corps
85th British AT Gun Regiment

Defending units:
14th Division
124th Infantry Regiment
16th AA Regiment
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
48th JNAF AF Unit
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
15th Army /2

One small enemy unit remains in the hex, and will be removed with another attack today. The other units retreated to Akyab, where there was just one small unit. There is movement indicated out of Akyab now. Akyab will fall quickly once I get there. The river line beyond, however, will end this offensive for now.

Today Dadjangas, on the southern tip of Mindanao, will be invaded. Cotabato will be invaded the day after. The entire US CV, CVL, and CVE fleet is here. Loading at Balikpapan has begun for the next set of invasions. APAs currently going to Cotabato will then go to Zamboanga to pick up the Marine division there for the next jump.

Some heavy bombers will bomb northern Mindanao bases today. All bombers on US carriers are tasked with a secondary mission of either bombing Cagayan or Butuan. I've split the altitudes into 2 groups, trying to minimize the effect of some mission fragmenting going after a tiny task force, or whatever. The CVs and CVEs will be one hex apart, with CAP ranging 1 hex to cover each other.

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(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 1611

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/6/2017 4:25:47 PM

Macclan5

Posts: 1065
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From: Toronto Canada
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Great update.

Thanks once again...

--

Can you provide a bit of insight into your right shoulder / flank ?

As I recall there were troops planned for Sorong / Babo (?) and the North West tip of NG...

Perhaps you reallocated them - order wise ? Your left shoulder is well in hand and forward to the PI seems to be in order.

I would guess that Ternate / Molucuss now represent your right shoulder - big base - big supply - well fortified - well air covered...

.... and RECON shows nothing to threaten you...so onwards rather than sideways...

--

End of game considerations.

Indeed the Empire must be feeling the supply pinch eventually; I think most IJN players really really stockpile in anticipation but this is Oct 1943..

1) You are right - Allied patience is a virtue.

2) I think the "reaction move missed" was the Combined Fleet amassed at Kendari some 6 months ago.

July 1943 or about Page 46

Based on the numerous AARs I have read at some point - every Empire player - Carriers or no Carriers - has to try for a 'Kantai Kessen'.

When the Combined Fleet was at Kendari 6 months ago - with land based air cover - the IJN needed to take some chances to wreck havoc on your APA, AK, Tender, DD, CL, CA fleet. Or try to.

Hit and run - high speed counter attacks - whatever it takes to disrupt the initiative.

I thought it might come in the Solomans / Lae / Rabul to Noumea - but it didn't materialize.

So the opportunity missed was Kendari - July 1943 - and the consequence get worse and worse and worse.

_____________________________

A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1612

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/6/2017 5:02:52 PM

Aurorus

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Joined: 5/26/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

Great update.

Thanks once again...

--

Can you provide a bit of insight into your right shoulder / flank ?

As I recall there were troops planned for Sorong / Babo (?) and the North West tip of NG...

Perhaps you reallocated them - order wise ? Your left shoulder is well in hand and forward to the PI seems to be in order.

I would guess that Ternate / Molucuss now represent your right shoulder - big base - big supply - well fortified - well air covered...

.... and RECON shows nothing to threaten you...so onwards rather than sideways...

--

End of game considerations.

Indeed the Empire must be feeling the supply pinch eventually; I think most IJN players really really stockpile in anticipation but this is Oct 1943..

1) You are right - Allied patience is a virtue.

2) I think the "reaction move missed" was the Combined Fleet amassed at Kendari some 6 months ago.

July 1943 or about Page 46

Based on the numerous AARs I have read at some point - every Empire player - Carriers or no Carriers - has to try for a 'Kantai Kessen'.

When the Combined Fleet was at Kendari 6 months ago - with land based air cover - the IJN needed to take some chances to wreck havoc on your APA, AK, Tender, DD, CL, CA fleet. Or try to.

Hit and run - high speed counter attacks - whatever it takes to disrupt the initiative.

I thought it might come in the Solomans / Lae / Rabul to Noumea - but it didn't materialize.

So the opportunity missed was Kendari - July 1943 - and the consequence get worse and worse and worse.

If the allies advance along multiple fronts, or along a broad front, i.e. such as the whole DEI, the Japanese must try to counterattack. I am not sure about a "Kentai Kessen," after early 43, but a counterattack of significant intensity. Hopefully that attack will come from an angle and position in which the allied land-based air and CVs are at a disadvantage or not present (i.e. before the allies have a set of interlocking airfields), but if the U.S. CVs are present in force, then it will have to be the great battle Mahan always wanted.

If the allies try to come at Japan from only 1 avenue of attack, however, I do not think a large-scale couter-offensive is necessary.

(in reply to Macclan5)

Post #: 1613

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/6/2017 7:52:58 PM

apbarog

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Macclan5, funny you should mention the right flank. Over time, I've watched a drawdown at Sorong. I have a task force headed that way now. I also have some paras prepped for the dot base that is adjacent. I will be attempting this without air cover. I know that Sorong's airfield is damaged, and has been for awhile. There is a nearby size 2 airfield on the east coast. A bit of a risk. This whole area has been quiet. I'm wearing down the enemy at Boela, slowly.

Taking Sorong will solidify the right flank, and make it possible to move to the east side of Mindanao, or towards Babeldaop. If I choose.

(in reply to Aurorus)

Post #: 1614

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/7/2017 3:33:48 AM

apbarog

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10 Oct 43

Sub Grenadier fires 2 torpedoes at xAK Tarushima Maru near Phuket, but misses. Grenadier then sights an xAKL task force, probably a different task force, but there's no engagement.

The landing at Dadjangas begins.

Sub Sailfish spots a tanker convoy near Pescadores, but there's no engagement.

Sub Pargo spots a tanker convoy near Hengchun, but there's no engagement.

The grand plan of using lots of carrier aircraft to help shut down the airfields on northern Mindanao doesn't quite work out. First, 13 P-38s sweep Cagayan, downing a few Zeros. Then 18 more P-38s sweep Cagayan, downing a few more Zeros, but losing about the same.

The first carrier strike came from the CVEs, targeting the airfield at Davao. Davao hasn't had CAP, so this was the lowest risk attack. Except this time there was a massive CAP, despite none of the aircraft being based at Davao (as far as I can tell). Light rain adds to the misery, helping to cause almost no airfield hits.

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 21
A6M5 Zero x 13
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 4
Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 6
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 31

Allied aircraft
FM-1 Wildcat x 18
F6F-3 Hellcat x 12
TBF-1 Avenger x 43

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
FM-1 Wildcat: 4 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 4 destroyed
TBF-1 Avenger: 17 destroyed, 11 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 2

The next strike on Cagayan was 17 B-17s. They find a weaker CAP and overcast weather, but airfield damage is still light. 12 B-24s then attack and get 16 runway hits. A bit better.

39 P-38s then sweep Cagayan, downing about 6 Zeros for no loss. Better. Cagayan's CAP has seemingly been knocked down now.

Carrier aircraft find a single xAK at Surigao:

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 12

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 57
SBD-5 Dauntless x 36

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 3 destroyed

Japanese Ships
xAK Toko Maru, Bomb hits 5, and is sunk

Then another carrier strike, this time against a single ACM at Cagayan:

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 7
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 4

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 67
TBF-1 Avenger x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
ACM Eguchi Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

And then yet another carrier strike against an almost worthless single ship, a tiny minesweeper at Butuan:

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 18
SBD-5 Dauntless x 36

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-5 Dauntless: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
AMc Tama Maru #5, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk

Then comes the afternoon activity. A huge carrier strike targets the airfield at Butuan. Unfortunately, although the skies appeared to be cleared over Cagayan, adjacent Butuan has a very heavy CAP in the afternoon. Thunderstorms mean almost no damage done:

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 33
A6M3a Zero x 9
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 45

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 42
SBD-5 Dauntless x 107
TBF-1 Avenger x 72

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 6 destroyed
SBD-5 Dauntless: 10 destroyed, 20 damaged
TBF-1 Avenger: 4 destroyed, 14 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 9

So half of the big carriers targeted single ship task forces and didn't launch their strikes against Cagayan. The other half targeted Butuan and got chewed up, as did the CVE strike against Davao.

Total air losses for the day:

21 Zeros
5 Oscars
4 Tojos

37 TBFs
32 F6Fs
21 SBDs
15 FM-1s
9 P-38s

A total of 50 US pilots are KIA today. The only good news is that almost all carrier squardrons are immediately replenished from replacement squadrons in the area. Heavy bombers are more effective at shutting down an airfield. I knew this, but I thought that enemy CAP had been weakened.

Just north of Akyab, the remaining enemy unit, an artillery regiment, is brushed aside. Allied troops will now move into Akyab as the enemy appears to be leaving.

Today, Dadjangas should be captured. All APAs have unloaded and head back to base to load for another target. Cotabato will be invaded today. P-38s and bombers will hit Cagayan again today, but just a handful of both.

Sorong will be invaded.

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(in reply to jwolf)

Post #: 1615

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/7/2017 4:08:51 AM

Aurorus

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Who was in command of the CVE group that launched on several insignificant targets? I have had this happen with Yamamota in command of CVs... sometimes for the good, sometimes the bad. His lower air and high agressiveness makes for a mixed bag. Perhaps something similar?

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1616

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/7/2017 4:18:32 AM

apbarog

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The CVEs launched a strike against Davao airfield, not shipping. Some of the CVs went after the shipping. Primary mission was naval strike, secondary mission was airfield strike for all CVs. Some went after shipping. That's what I wanted. It's just unfortunate that the only naval targets were single ships at northern Mindanao ports.

The only thing I concern myself with carrier task force commanders is aggressiveness, and whether I want a higher chance of a reaction move. It may affect other things too, but I don't worry about it.

(in reply to Aurorus)

Post #: 1617

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/7/2017 4:35:55 AM

Aurorus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: apbarog

The CVEs launched a strike against Davao airfield, not shipping. Some of the CVs went after the shipping. Primary mission was naval strike, secondary mission was airfield strike for all CVs. Some went after shipping. That's what I wanted. It's just unfortunate that the only naval targets were single ships at northern Mindanao ports.

The only thing I concern myself with carrier task force commanders is aggressiveness, and whether I want a higher chance of a reaction move. It may affect other things too, but I don't worry about it.

I also prefer higher aggressiveness CV commanders, which is why I usually put Yamamota in command of my main CV group. Their actions are more predictable. Air rating is important, however, for coordinating strikes and having a good CAP presence. There are times when I would rather have Yamaguchi in command. In a complex situation, for example, such as when facing a U.S. amphibious group, support groups, and a SCTF, accompanied by CVs, I would rather have Yamaguchi, because he is more likely to launch a focused attack. In a more straight-forward encounter or when I am on offense, I would much rather have Yamamota. That has been my experience, any way. Since you were on offense, I think aggressiveness was the correct choice. Unfortunate that he was a bit "overly" aggressive in pursuing his primary objective.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1618

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/7/2017 4:39:10 AM

apbarog

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I misspoke when I said that I "only" consider aggressiveness. I consider air rating also, always. Aggressiveness is the one that sometimes I prefer high, sometimes not. Air rating is always important.

(in reply to Aurorus)

Post #: 1619

RE: See you in Tokyo Bay - Apbarog(A) vs Walker(J) DBB-... - 4/7/2017 3:46:34 PM

jwolf

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Kudos to Walker for putting the right assets in place at the right time. Admittedly luck was with the Japanese this time as well. But although this was painful for your air groups, the overall mission looks to be off to a successful start.

(in reply to apbarog)

Post #: 1620

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