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and another vichy bug - 4/10/2017 1:53:51 AM   
joshuamnave

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline 		CW declares war on Vichy. The Senegal militia unit which has been sitting in Morocco for a few turns, disappears at the end of the declaration of war stage. Note - it has not been attacked, so no roll was made on vichy loyalty. It just vanishes. Save game from start of DOW phase.

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Post #: 1
RE: and another vichy bug - 4/10/2017 7:35:17 AM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		Provided that Senegal is a (minor) country (I don't have the map here), maybe it is correcting and it shouldn't ever have been able to get to Morocco:

quote:

11.11.5 Active major powers
You can move a land unit controlled by an active major power into any hex controlled by:
ï that major power and its aligned minors; or
ï another active major power on the same side (or its controlled minor countries); or
ï a major power or minor country it is at war with.
There are some exceptions:
ï units can’t enter the home country of a non co-operating major power on the same side unless they satisfy the foreign troop commitment rules (see 18.2); and
ï minor country units can’t enter a hex controlled by another minor country aligned with their side unless they satisfy the foreign troop commitment rules.
ï units cannot enter a country controlled by another power on their side without permission of the owner.

(in reply to joshuamnave)
Post #: 2
RE: and another vichy bug - 4/10/2017 8:11:31 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Not likely that since the FTC rules say you are OK if you start the phase in the country. A better question is how did it get there to start with?

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Paul

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Post #: 3
RE: and another vichy bug - 4/10/2017 11:19:20 PM   
joshuamnave

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline 		The Senegal militia was in France when Vichy was established, and later transported to Morocco by a Vichy Transport. My guess is that in the process of establishing Vichy it got tagged as a Vichy unit at the same time all other French units were switched from French to Vichy. Perhaps that's the bug, then. Although there's certainly an argument for that being correct as well. "All units controlled by France that are still in Vichy territory are now controlled by Vichy."

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Post #: 4
RE: and another vichy bug - 4/11/2017 3:07:39 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		'Controlled by' is not the same as being a Vichy unit. Like any other Colonial it could be transported to France and fight in its defense, but could not stack with another Colonial unit, nor should it be able to be transported to a different colony. This is the same whether it is controlled by France or by Vichy.

But yeah, that is one theory of why it was able to enter Morocco.



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Paul

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Post #: 5
RE: and another vichy bug - 4/11/2017 8:15:02 AM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Not likely that since the FTC rules say you are OK if you start the phase in the country. A better question is how did it get there to start with?



Obviously

And yes, I was guessing Zartacla most probably hadn't needed to use an HQ to move it to Morocco (could then retrieve HQ to France), so that's what very probably was the bug. Then the game probably solved it through correcting this mistake (in an "overstacking way", deleting the unit) when the war on Vichy is declared and it checks its stance, but that's a wild shot.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 4/11/2017 8:32:18 AM >

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 6
RE: and another vichy bug - 4/11/2017 12:02:54 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		Since the Senegal MIL is a minor country unit, it should not be allowed to enter Morocco (not even with a Vichy, French or Free French HQ present), unless the first hex that it entered in Morocco was controlled by the other side...

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Peter

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Post #: 7
RE: and another vichy bug - 4/11/2017 2:03:31 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		I thought that, too, but look at what I marked in bold... it could, subject to FTC.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 8
RE: and another vichy bug - 4/11/2017 5:30:57 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

I thought that, too, but look at what I marked in bold... it could, subject to FTC.


You need a Senegalese HQ to fulfill FTC. A French HQ doesn't do the trick here...

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Peter

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Post #: 9
RE: and another vichy bug - 4/11/2017 7:14:35 PM   
ACMW

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 11/25/2006
From: Norway
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Since the Senegal MIL is a minor country unit, it should not be allowed to enter Morocco (not even with a Vichy, French or Free French HQ present), unless the first hex that it entered in Morocco was controlled by the other side...


I don't think that allows it to be there. Only if Morocco had been conquered - say by Italy - and the Senegalese unit assisted in its liberation by France (prior to Vichy).

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(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 10
RE: and another vichy bug - 4/11/2017 7:19:49 PM   
joshuamnave

 

Posts: 967
Joined: 1/8/2014
Status: offline 		None of which happened. So yes, it looks like the bug is the Senegal Mil getting reflagged as a Vichy unit along with the French units, then something going weird as a result of that when the CW declares war.

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(in reply to ACMW)
Post #: 11
RE: and another vichy bug - 4/11/2017 7:55:24 PM   
ACMW

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 11/25/2006
From: Norway
Status: offline 		No, I guessed not. I posted because I was interested in the general case. But Vichy: not surprised that this is a troublesome area; I struggle my way through this in the non-electron version of WiF.

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Post #: 12
RE: and another vichy bug - 4/12/2017 2:08:04 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ACMW


quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

Since the Senegal MIL is a minor country unit, it should not be allowed to enter Morocco (not even with a Vichy, French or Free French HQ present), unless the first hex that it entered in Morocco was controlled by the other side...


I don't think that allows it to be there. Only if Morocco had been conquered - say by Italy - and the Senegalese unit assisted in its liberation by France (prior to Vichy).


If Senegal went Free French, and Morocco is Vichy controlled, Free French units when at war with Vichy may enter Morocco. So in that case, the Senegal MIL could have entered Morocco. But since this didn't happen, there is a bug here.

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Peter

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Post #: 13
RE: and another vichy bug - 4/20/2017 4:40:35 AM   
ACMW

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 11/25/2006
From: Norway
Status: offline 		Came across this recently:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39608575

Maybe MWIF was just anticipating this. There then would be no need for a Senegalese HQ.

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The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons. (Emerson)

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 14
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