Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: gmtello

What Is better for surfave combat 1 tf of 45 ships or 3 of 15 in the same hex . If the enemy use large Tfs or smaller ones Could vary?

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ORIGINAL: dr.hal

If I recall, there is a combat penalty for a surface TF of more than 15 ships, but I don't know the details of that penalty. Certainly in REAL LIFE, the larger the TF the more unwieldy it becomes, the more chance for confusion and the more chance for blue on blue (friendly) fire incidents (which I've never seen portrayed in this game, but happened all too often in the Pacific theater). But I'm not sure how the game handles it all, maybe others can help here. But then again, this 15 ship penalty might only apply to a Air Combat TF (CV), sorry for the confusion. Maybe I shouldn't chime in when I only muddy the waters!

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ORIGINAL: RisingSun

I was thinking the better the commander's leadership, etc the more you can control without penalty. But that can be hidden from us, if it does. Also depending on the rank should matter too.

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ORIGINAL: rustysi

TBH, I do my best to avoid surface combat. To me its all about the air.

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ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Well I was thinking if you don't have enough screen protection your capitol ships, you are risking it from high speed destroyers with torpedo runs. So make sure you have plenty of escorts equal to capitols or more. Light cruisers can be and should be escort roles too, but not sure how they lay out the protection screens. But it is overall Commander abilities as well Captains too.

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ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Depends, as Allies your fleets can be bigger, not only cause you will get (have) more combat ships, but also cause the IJN apparently gets a "coordination" penality with larger fleets. Which probably moddels their inferior radios and electronics. But Allied fleets also will have collision due to too many ships (at night more ofc). Startin in circa mid 43 Allies will have bigger fleets with better exp and collisions will be more rare by then. Check your cue compare ships arriving in 42 and 44 (big difference in exp - only RN ones have good exp from the start)

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ORIGINAL: crsutton

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ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Well I was thinking if you don't have enough screen protection your capitol ships, you are risking it from high speed destroyers with torpedo runs. So make sure you have plenty of escorts equal to capitols or more. Light cruisers can be and should be escort roles too, but not sure how they lay out the protection screens. But it is overall Commander abilities as well Captains too.

And speed is a factor. Frankly, old American BBs should avoid night action like the plague. They are just too slow and tend to eat torpedoes. I can speak from hard experience on this matter....

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ORIGINAL: crsutton
I do know that Allied surface ships get a gunnery boost sometime around 1/44 to reflect improved fire detection. JWE was the source of that tidbit.

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ORIGINAL: Buckrock

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ORIGINAL: crsutton
I do know that Allied surface ships get a gunnery boost sometime around 1/44 to reflect improved fire detection. JWE was the source of that tidbit.

Was this what you were referring to?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3819133

I took note of "There is a gunnery accuracy bonus for late war Allied ships : AAA more so than Nav."

The last part of that statement is interesting.

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ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Posters suggested that my IJN TFs were too large cause of the penality, see eg. here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4230779

And/or in my "AAR" perhaps too: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4175198

And it looks like it is true (and realistic ofc), because smaller TF at least have no crashes and less losses (not that they hit better ofc), 2 smaller CLs fleets from me survived against larger more powerful fleets, while a big fleet seemed to suffer the penality and BBs sunk.

The other reason suggested by experts is, I was using a night with too good moonlight. But read it yourself if enough time I lost 4 BBs in bigger TFs for example :( I played only vs. the AI before, so needed to adapt to a more capable, sneaky etc. human player. This is why I need to try to use best TFs (vs. the AI this is not so important, mostly the AI will also send its ships in harms way, without yourself doing much)
As you can see the Allied player can combine and mass his force (also all nations can work together, as they all speak English), they do not perform worse (as can be seen in the combat reports, with Allies using 20-30 ships fleets, yes they also get some crashes but as explained above with better exp of Allied ships this will fade starting in 43 imho)

Edit, also it seems to be true for some reason that mixing BBs and CA/CLs seem not to be good. Like some others already suggested, I have no idea why tho. In reality you need cruisers for recon and screen BBs (not only DDs). But this can ofc only be coincidence.

Edit2, another source is an AAR by "Obvert" ("Elephant vanished"), who experienced the same CV reaction problem and that his SF fleets did perform badly even not engaging CVs (I noted the same things)