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RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/3/2017 9:59:52 PM   
alghblag

 

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Just one minor thing, the Close ASW markers for the French and US carriers aren't attached to their respective groups, so they remain stationary as the TFs sail away. You might consider moving the British carrier north a bit - unless you count on sinking it, in which case it's good where it is. Many of the F-104s aren't at all helpful that far south, you might consider putting some F-104 munitions on Pantelleria.

Well done man. I look forward to more big scenarios!

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 31
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/3/2017 10:28:46 PM   
Gunner98

 

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OK will fix the RPs.

I think I'll move the UK Task Group further North, about 50 miles should do it. There should be a bunch of munitions for the 104's at Pantelleria and Trapani already.

B

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Post #: 32
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/3/2017 10:30:09 PM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

give this one a try


Excroat3 - would you mind trying it with the HMS Illustrious moved about 50 miles north of its current location? Its a tad vulnerable at the moment.

b

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Post #: 33
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/3/2017 11:49:33 PM   
Excroat3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

quote:

give this one a try


Excroat3 - would you mind trying it with the HMS Illustrious moved about 50 miles north of its current location? Its a tad vulnerable at the moment.

b

Sounds good. I got a full day to play this Wednesday, so expect a report a day or 2 after that.

EDIT: Maybe not, I'm just going around placing missions and my PC is really struggling with the size. Nothing against your scenario of course, this massive scale is my FAVORITE type of scenario, but my poor old PC just can't run it :(.

< Message edited by Excroat3 -- 4/4/2017 1:13:04 AM >

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Post #: 34
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/4/2017 9:55:23 AM   
AndrewJ

 

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I'm only part way through at the moment, currently in the first night, but will try and get further tonight.

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Post #: 35
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/4/2017 12:07:27 PM   
Primarchx


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Mine crashed and the autosaves were overwritten before I realized how old my last true save was.

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RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/4/2017 3:49:55 PM   
JPFisher55

 

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I'm in the beginning of this excellent scenario. It's different from the usual USN 6th fleet versus the Soviet Med and Black Sea fleet. Back in the mid-1970's, my first board wargame was called "Sixth Fleet." It featured this match up.

I too had the Libyans sink the UK carrier task force. Those small carriers are not worth much because they can't really defend themselves. The land based air was too far away. However, the French are handling the Algerians.

Overall, it is a really fun scenario. Thanks Gunner.

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Post #: 37
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/4/2017 8:16:00 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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So I'm still only a few hours into this one, but I have to say I'm really enjoying the environment. It feels 'live', as if you're surrounded by a real world with fishing fleets (full of spies), passing freighters (full of spies), and a high command that keeps trying to divert your resources. (They're probably full of spies too...) The power balance is nice as well. You don't have a big enough qualitative advantage to simply beat up on the Africans and force your way in with technological might. I find myself feeling stymied, and really having to look carefully at what I can do, which is definitely a good thing.


Playthrough

My initial situation is dangerously spread out, and the first commands which go out are to turn and run away from tattletales, then tighten up formations, hurry isolated ships towards each other to make task groups, and get clearance from the south coast. The carrier groups are much too dispersed to give effective AAW support to each other, particularly the Brits who are spread out as if they are hunting subs in the empty North Atlantic. (Just like the other Brit task groups up in Scandanavia in Northern Fury.) Their Sea Wolf missiles are effective, but very short ranged, so I move them in very tight to provide mutual support.

MPA go out to look around. The American CVBG is directed to head south at modest speed. The French are sent between Corsica and Sardinia, with plans to cut down between Sicily and the toe of Italy. I see no need for them to snuggle up to the enemy coast before they reach their duty station. The Italians come south at good speed, eyeing the suspicious Tunisian freighter who has more surveillance radars than I would normally expect. I glare at them. They wave innocently at me. Hmmmm.... The Orangeleaf, all alone, heads for the Greek airbases and anchors under the flightpath, waiting to join the Italians as they pass south. I don't want her out there all alone.

The ASW environment on the south coast is probably reasonably benign (particularly in the east), so my subs turn and start snorkelling in the direction of Tripoli and Oran. I'm pinning a lot of my hopes on the Marconi, which starts heading along the coast towards the Soviet ships. If she can get in and torpedo the big guys this will remove a major obstacle. When she gets closer she'll hug the bottom and creep, but at the moment she stays masts up and provides ESM information.

I take the first offensive move, by sneaking in some F-14s towards Tripoli at wavetop level, with jammers fuzzing things up in the background. The F-14s take long-range Phoenix shots at the Russian AEW helicopters while keeping their radars off, thus remaining covert, and the slow-moving helicopters don't get far enough to elude the active seekers on the Phoenixes. The Libyans never see my planes, so they can't be sure where the missiles came from, and this allows us to remain at peace for the moment. Our ambassador expresses concern about the unfortunate maintenance failures on the Russian helicopters, and hopes no Libyans were harmed by the Russian negligence. Both AEW helicopters are destroyed, which is a genuinely Good Thing.

A few hours in the Libyans make their move, and massive strikes are launched towards my ships south of Italy. Fortunately, with my ships now over the horizon from the tattletales, the Libyans have bad targeting information, and at first they don't proceed directly to the actual positions of my ships. My F-104s prove their high-speed dash makes them very useful for hurtling down from Italy in time to interfere with the western branch of the attack before they can get to my ships there, and some fighters from the American carriers arrive to help too. The eastern branch untangles itself after some confusion, and when the Blinders manage to get a fresh radar hit on the British carrier group the planes turn and attack. Fortunately they don't all arrive at once, so there is time for a combination of Harriers, every single Greek F-4 with an AAW loadout, and a number of carefully allocated SAMs to defeat the attack.

My shooting at the Libyan strike causes the Algerians to go hostile, and they start trying to hunt my P-3s, so I'm forced to shoot down a Mig-29 with my cruiser, earning me some more diplomatic bad-boy points.

In the general engagement which follows large numbers of Mig-25s and Mig-23s emerge from Libya. The Foxbats are more spread out, and many are handled by AMRAAM equipped Harriers (consequently I now have only 4 AMRAAMs in the entire fleet). The Mig-23s are in a tighter cluster, and they head north as I'm about to bring my fleet of AMXs into Pantelleria. My heavy Phoenix reserve deals with that very nicely, and the AMXs make a safe landing. (I have to admit I'm quite nervous about all those planes at Pantelleria, which is quite vulnerable, and I'm worried about air strikes or even naval raids there. I'm also surprised there's been no attack on my radar station at Lampedusa yet, which continues to give me very useful information.)

The Libyan navy also starts heading north, and some of my ships around Sicily have to dodge incoming ASMs. Fortunately these seem to have been fired at obsolete target information, so they pass harmlessly by, too distant to pick me up. I'm currently out of the range of the Krivak's OTH radars and they've got no radars airborne, so I suspect there's something else submarine-shaped out there listening for me. (An Atlantique has sunk a Tango west of Sicily, but so far no other sub contacts in my area.) My airborne radar is effective, however, so a combination of Harrier strikes and Otomats deal with the isolated ships on the leading edge of the enemy flotilla. There's a lot of more capable missile boats further south, but for the moment they're out of range of my missiles, I don't have a good fix on them, and I'm not sure I want to send aircraft deeply into SAM cover (SA-5 and SA-N-6) to engage them. I may wait until daylight and send the AMXs after them when they can actually see again.

I've been given orders to engage Libyan land targets, but with the dense SAM belt around Tripoli and the dratted task group parked in the harbour with their advanced missiles, I don't think I've got a good way in yet. I definitely don't want to send iron bombers (or even LGBs) in on it without ARM support, because casualties will be apalling. I think I'll have to wait until the navy is down before dealing with the land attack. Fortunately I've still got a day and a half left.

In the east there's been some skirmishing with Mig-23s south of Crete. I used my last few TLAMs to engage the surveillance radars near Benghazi, in advance of strikes there, but an attempt to hit the radars for the Tobruk area did not succeed, and the missiles were shot down by enemy fighters. I know there are a few missile boats in the area, which I will tackle soon with Harpoons under cover of darkness. The trick will be getting a precise location on them without losing my observer. I've also flown in some more of my Greek F-4s to provide cover for the ferrying aircraft, which are starting to come through. So far nobody has interfered with the first few F-15s, although I wonder if there will be a determined effort when the transports come through.

Out west, my submarine heading for Oran gets into a pack of Algerian missile boats, which are completely blind to submarine threats, and begins to systematically execute them. F-18s from Spain, Etendards off the French carrier, and missiles from the Spanish ships destroy most of the others, and at the moment I believe I've gotten rid of all but two of them (unless more are in port). I need them gone before the Rota task group enters the Med, and the progress is heartening.

In the air, the Algerian Mig-29s prove to be a real problem to handle, and it takes coordinated pack tactics using F-18s and Mirages to deal with them and the Mig-25s. After darkness falls the A-7s head south to bomb the airfield near Oran, but despite dropping scores of 500 lb bombs on the runways the damage is modest. They have better luck bombing hangars and strafing tarmac spaces, which destroys most of the remaining aircraft on the field, but occasional Mig-29s still pop up during the night. The Algerians launch an anti-shipping attack in the east, but this is costly with the American carrier so close nearby.

I also try some attacks on the Algerian's eastern and western surveillance radars, which prove to be guarded by SA-6s, and it takes some terrain masking and dodging to try and find a way in. The radars go down, but I'm not sure it will make a significant difference, since SAM radars and Tunisian radars will fill the gap.


Miscellaneous observations (Sorry if some are duplicates)

My SSKs are sooo slooooow. Can I wait for the sub to get to Tripoli? I'll lose most of a day. Should I try an ASM strike first? The Russians have great ASM defences. Although an SSN would be awesome for zooming into Tripoli, the scenario is much better balanced with the SSK. An excellent way to inflict some decision-making agony on the player!

Should the ships at Rota have helicopters on them?

For the ferry operation coming through, maybe mention explicitly in the warning message that the planes will be flying in from England, so there is no confusion.

'Msg - Algeria Hostile' event typo: "and no mater what actually"

Should there be any Maverick reloads for the AMXs? So far they only have the one set which is on the aircraft.

A number of the Harriers are carrying stores which require buddy illumination, but the only illuminators they have available are on the Greek F-4s which are some distance off, and not necessarily available for use.

Is there a port for the Spanish subs in the Med itself (not just Rota), where they might be able to retire to re-arm after using their torps? (Although only the eastern one would have a hope of getting there.)

The Sparrow loadout in the carrier magazines has a very small number of Ms (29, IIRC), and a large number of Ps. However, three of the squadrons (2 F-18, 1 F-14) use the Ms, and only one use the Ps. As a result you quickly run out of Ms, and this means you soon cannot make any air-to-air loadouts with these fighters (Sparrows are mandatory weapons in all those loadouts), even if you have plenty of Phoenixes and Sidewinders left. Should the quantities have been reversed?

(Is the AO up in Toulon supposed to be heading south to the carrier group to solve this problem? Or can the Orangeleaf fill up the Brits?)

The Algerian Beida strike mission will launch on passing Civilian ships, and although they do not attack them they orbit defencelessly and can be easily engaged and destroyed.


The opening Libyan anti-shipping strikes had some problems dealing with obsolete target information. As far as I can tell they will head for their starting IPs (based on last known position), and they will not redirect to other targets until they clear that IP. This means that if they are heading for an old contact up near Sicily they will sometimes bypass other closer ships with good contact information (such as the British carrier group) en-route to a patch of empty ocean. In some cases I needed to switch sides, disengage units, and try to get them to engage a more sensible NATO target. (I think some of this has been tweaked already, so it may not be so bad now.)

I did a few runs of the attack on the Brits using different setups to see what would happen. If the Brits are in a known position (so the attack goes in as intended) in their starting formation, then they get eaten alive. If the Brits are put in a concentrated formation on weapons free then they can handle much of the strike on their own until the Su-24s start launching PGMs, at which point they lose some ships but may escape with the carrier. Once Harriers or other aircraft start to interfere then the chances of survival start increasing rapidly (especially if you manage your SAMs carefully).


So once again, this is a really good one, with lots to do, good operational tension, and enough surprises and uncertainty to keep the player guessing. Thanks for writing it.

(in reply to JPFisher55)
Post #: 38
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/4/2017 9:12:02 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Andrew

Glad you're enjoying it. It was quite fun to build as well - the Med is so so small!

Most of you're points will get fixed, thanks for picking that stuff up. Couple of comments:

-There should be Helo's at the Rota NAS for the ships that originate from there.
-The Sparrow issue will be fixed - the Detroit has a reload but it might be configured the same way. The Durance has a reload for the Clemenceau and the Brit AOR up by Toulon has a reload for the Illustrious.
-No SSNs is deliberate as mentioned earlier but I will put something way up in the NW somewhere
-That Libyan airstrike on the Illustrious group can be very deadly as you point out, but can be avoided with some effort. I've asked Excroat3 to try it with the group 50miles north, that should give them a better chance of getting the Greek F-4's into play.

MF 5 is a second strike on Libya with the Ike, and some USAF forces, MF 7 is the Nimitz coming in to clean it up - tried to make this one a tough nut to crack. Just can't get too distracted from Northern Fury...

Cheers

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RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/4/2017 9:41:57 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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Aha! I wondered what that lone Seasprite was all about.

I assigned it to patrol the straits and then forgot about it.

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RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/4/2017 9:57:38 PM   
Primarchx


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Nice writeup, AndrewJ!

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RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/5/2017 11:37:53 AM   
zeufman

 

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looks good, big scenario and challenge, but my computer ( i5 and 8g ram ) seems out
IRL game time = 1 sec, game time running = 0.25 sec
May be too much unit for my processor ( 70 % in charge )

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Post #: 42
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/5/2017 4:41:47 PM   
Excroat3

 

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I had to delete everything but the units involved in the Illustrious strike in order to get my PC to even run the scenario, and this might have messed up some events, but here is the report:

Once I saw the strikes forming up over Libya, I ordered every Greek and Italian fighter in range to launch and come help the British Carrier group. The Greek cap I already had on station (handful of F-4s plus the British Harriers) started to engage the Libyan strikers. Over half of the strikers actually headed to kill the Ardito, which bought me the precious time I needed to reinforce my CAP. The wave of strikes that headed directly towards me was mostly defeated by SAMs and F-4s, but a couple of migs got through and sunk one of my Type 42s. The loss of a potent SAM ship like that collapsed my plan to keep the Migs at arm's length, and they surged in, sinking the Illustrious. At this point I turned on God's eye, and there were still about ~80 planes headed towards the Carrier group. Judging from my SAMs and CAP remaining, I think that I would lose a few more ships, but the group wouldn't be completely wiped out. The big factor that helped me was the Ardito going down fighting, and drawing all the enemy planes towards it. The 50nm move north helped with my Greek and Italian CAP, as they now had more time on station to kill Migs.

Other Comments:
The Libyan strike missions and CAP are set to activate at a specific time, even if war is declared before that time. Should there be an event activating those missions simultaneously with the war declaration?

Losses and Expenditures (at moment with 80 strikers still inbound)
SIDE: NATO
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x AB.212 ASW
1x D 550 Audace
1x D 80 Sheffield [Type 42 Batch 1]
1x F-104S Starfighter ASA
7x F-4E Phantom II
4x Harrier GR.7
1x Lynx HAS.3
1x R 06 Illustrious [Invincible Class]
4x Sea Harrier FA.2
1x Sea King AEW.2A
2x Sea King HAR.3
5x Sea King HAS.6


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
10x 114mm/55 Mk8 HE(MP) HE
58x 127mm/54 OTO Melara Compact HECVT
18x 20mm/70 Oerlikon Mk7 Burst [20 rnds]
27x 20mm/85 M61A1 Vulcan Burst [100 rnds]
3x 20mm/85 Mk15 Phalanx Blk 0 Burst [200 rnds]
10x 30mm Goalkeeper Burst [240 rnds]
89x 76mm/62 Super Rapido HE Burst [2 rnds]
8x AIM-120B AMRAAM
48x AIM-7E2 Sparrow III
7x AIM-9L Sidewinder
8x AIM-9M Sidewinder
38x AIM-9N Sidewinder
6x AN/SSQ-53B DIFAR
10x AN/SSQ-62B DICASS
8x Aspide
11x Aspide
16x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
26x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Single Spectral]
4x Mk18 1000lb RET
1x Mk46 NEARTIP Mod 5
35x RIM-66A SM-1MR Blk IV
1x RIM-7M Sea Sparrow
54x Sea Dart Mod 2
4x Sea Wolf Blk 1
2x Sea Wolf VLS Blk 1
19x SSQ-963A CAMBS III
2x TSM 8050A Active RO



SIDE: WP
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------





SIDE: Libya
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
8x MiG-21bis Fishbed L
21x MiG-23BN Flogger H
19x MiG-23MS Flogger E
7x MiG-25P Foxbat A
4x Mirage 5D
2x P 510 Soloven [Improved Brave Class]
10x Su-24MK Fencer D


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
10x 23mm Gsh-23L Burst [40 rnds]
4x 23mm Gsh-6-23 [50 rnds]
37x AA-6 Acrid A [R-40R, SARH]
26x AA-6 Acrid B [R-40T, IR]
2x AA-8 Aphid [R-60TM]
3x AS-14 Kedge [Kh-29L]
36x FAB-250M-54 GPB
30x FAB-500M-54 GPB
24x Generic Chaff Salvo [4x Cartridges]
13x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
20x Generic Flare Salvo [2x Cartridges, Single Spectral]
8x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Single Spectral]


I think that with more micro and a bit of luck, you can same the Illustrious, but it is certainly a challenge, which I am sure you intended!

(in reply to zeufman)
Post #: 43
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/5/2017 5:27:11 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Thanks Excroat3, appreciate the help.

I think, I'll do the move with the RN, a little less risky but still quite a challenge

quote:

Other Comments: The Libyan strike missions and CAP are set to activate at a specific time, even if war is declared before that time. Should there be an event activating those missions simultaneously with the war declaration?


Thought long and hard on how to do this one. The sense I am trying to portray is dis-unity. The Sov's attack and in the next few days everyone else is jumping on the bandwagon - it wasn't a globally coordinated event. Western Intelligence would have caught on to that and the surprise would be at risk. So Syria, Cuba, Libya, Algeria and the rest come on board but not at the same time and not completely ready. This gives NATO some respite but also some unpredictability.

So the fixed timing: Gaddafi wakes up ready to watch the Libyan Bobsled team win at Lillehammer and realizing he's missing a good war! Call to Arms! General of the Air force, 2nd cousin and all around oxygen thief, replies 'Gad-Zooks, cousin Muammar, I need to fly my mistress out of town so my wife doesn't meet her - we can't attack until tomorrow!' etc etc

So I figured fixed timings and different starts for the various counties would be reasonable.


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Post #: 44
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/5/2017 5:43:10 PM   
Excroat3

 

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That makes sense. I was looking at it from a perspective of "use it or lose it" for the Libyans, Gaddafi won't be too happy if he wakes up and he's missing an airbase or two because his generals were too afraid to launch aircraft without his permission! But you are correct, the theme of disunity is a lot more prevalent when the main strikes come at a random time rather than right after hostilities commence. You might even catch a player or two off guard when they surge CAP in response to the war declaration then see there is actually no strike coming!

< Message edited by Excroat3 -- 4/5/2017 5:44:36 PM >

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Post #: 45
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/7/2017 9:47:24 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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Would you believe I only just noticed the 80 TLAMs on the Eisenhower group? I was so fixated on carefully husbanding the 8 TLAMs on the Ray that I didn't look elsewhere. What a dummy!

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Post #: 46
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/7/2017 11:30:54 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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Wait a minute... Does the Tunisian fishing fleet sail home every morning, as part of their routine operations? Or is something unusual going on? Presumably the Italians would know?

(My shoulder blades are itching. Am I about to get a Tunisian knife in the back?)

Edit: maybe the smaller boats are headed home to refuel. They should be running low at this point.

Have I mentioned this scenario is awesome? You've got me so paranoid for tricks that I'm calculating fuel expenditures of fishing boats...

< Message edited by AndrewJ -- 4/7/2017 11:34:14 PM >

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Post #: 47
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/7/2017 11:58:49 PM   
Gunner98

 

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RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/16/2017 11:03:03 PM   
AndrewJ

 

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Well, this scenario certainly isn't as quick as I had anticipated. I finally had time to play the rest of it, so here's what happened in somewhat abbreviated form.

Playthrough

CENTER

In the center, I decided not to wait for the SSK to arrive at Tripoli, and went ahead with a night-time anti-shipping strike, bringing in every Harpoon and SLAM carrying aircraft I had, including S-3s and even EF-18s from Spain, and covering them with HARMs and heavy jamming (3 Prowlers) and a strong fighter escort to keep the enemy out of my missiles. (F-14s are essential here to reach into the enemy SAM envelope with Phoenixes.) After intense fighter combat I launched a concentrated single axis attack on the enemy fleet. The combination worked, with multiple hits on all units, sinking some outright, and leaving the others to burn out. (if you let the AI spread out your missiles this won't work. You must manually set them for a single straight line attack down the jamming strobe, and time them so the enemy wastes its initial SAMs hitting HARMs instead of your Harpoons.) The crew of the submarine Marconi, only 55 miles away, could only listen in frustration to the distant rumbling as their targets broke up and sank. They spent the rest of the scenario patrolling off Tripoli and gathering ESM information.

In the meantime, the bulk of the Libyan missile boat fleet was headed north, sending long-range Otomat shots towards my ships, who were trying to take long-range Otomat shots of their own. There were several desperate dashes by F-104s to intercept the enemy missiles, and some heavy SAM work by TG Grecale (the Ardito, Grecale, and Monmouth in close formation, relying heavily on the Monmouth's Sea Wolf VLS system) to keep the group alive. In the end I had air cover and airborne radar and they did not, and my group was able to shoot-look-shoot to whittle down the enemy forces. A cluster bomb strike by returning F-18s which had expended their HARMs down south was also useful for slowing down the La Combattantes (the only ones with long-range Otomats), and the French helped out with a long-range Etendard/Exocet strike from the Clemenceau, and the Libyan flotilla was under water by dawn. (The Osas south of Crete met a similar fate, taken by surprise by missiles arriving out of the dark.) TG Grecale was out of SSMs, but the Minervas hadn't reached the enemy in time to engage so they were still fully loaded. Both groups went to patrol around Pantelleria, alert for possible Tunisian action, for the remainder of the scenario.

The strike on the Russian task group off Tripoli had revealed a new player - a very dangerous SA-10 system - which would cause a great deal of trouble for any attack on the targets in the region. Accordingly, the morning strike was planned with the primary goal of SEAD: heavy jamming, heavy fighter cover, and then 30 of my remaining 40 HARMs and all my SLAMs intended for the SA-10, timed to arrive along with a salvo of TLAMs to deal with the SA-3s and SA-5. I was pretty pleased with my math (after all, the SA-10 only has so many missiles, and had used some trying to hit my fighters), until my barrage of HARM shots at the SA-10 provoked a barrage of fire from the four surrounding medium range SAM sites and the SHORADs site that had been lying in wait. My reserve HARMs were immediately fired at these new threats, and SLAMs were redirected to deal with them. A few shots from my main salvo made it through the gauntlet to shut down the SA-10, and since the new SAM sites had used most of their missiles, my remaining shots were able to take down the new threats. I had expected a token SA-10 to keep the Libyans quiet. Clearly the Russians had not agreed.

Nonetheless, the sites were down and the signal was given for the three dozen AMXs (which had overnighted at Pantelleria) to launch their attack. Naturally, the moment this happened I started getting ESM hits from a massive swarm of Mig-25s heading north. Anything airborne with a long-range missile (heck, or even a short range missile) was ordered to form up and receive the charge, and stop it before it could get wreck the AMX attack. After furious air-to-air combat the Migs were vanquished, and the AMXs came scooting in at treetop level, shutting down Tripoli airbase with Durandals, going after the SA-2s and radars with cluster bombs, and beating up on barracks and bases with iron bombs. Their attack complete, they retired to Pantelleria for a well-earned celebration.

EAST

In the eastern end of the Med things had been quieter. A force of the Greek F-4s had flown in to Souda to provide cover for the ferry and cargo flights to Egypt, and they set up patrols SE of Crete. The Andromeda was sent further south, two thirds of the way to Egypt, in order to act as a radar picket in case the Libyans tried sneaking along the coast. The Libyans never made an attempt on those aircraft, so patrols continued quietly for the rest of the scenario.

After the main attack in the center was over, a smaller attack was launched at the facilities around Benina. Long range Italian jammers flew in, along with some fighter cover and my remaining HARMs from the American carrier, and Greek attack planes flew in from the mainland and Crete. A combination of HARMs and TLAMs dealt with the SA-3s and SA-5, and the low level attacks dealt with the SA-2s, but the overall threat level here was significantly lower, and the attack planes were able to batter away at the airfield and nearby facilities. (The main lesson here was 'don't waste 500lb warheads on runways'.)

Follow-up attacks happened during the night with carrier aircraft (Harriers with night-vision) and land based aircraft the next day to finish off targets in the area. F-4s from Crete kept ganging up on the Mig-23s operating out of the Tobruk area, using numerical superiority and longer-ranged missiles to keep control of the situation, and they racked up a good score without reprisals. There were no other significant actions in the east for the rest of the scenario.

WEST

In the west the Algerians proved that they could still be troublesome. My proud Spanish submarine, fresh from its victories over the missile boats near Oran, headed north to clear the expected route along the north coast for my task group coming through Gibraltar. Mentally measuring up the broomstick he was going to tie to his mast, the captain ordered the sub to snorkel along at good speed, and went to measure his uniform to see if it could hold enough medals. That's when the sonarman started screaming about incoming torps. A desperate turn to bring the stern tubes (the only full ones) to bear, two shots down the enemy bearing, flank speed below the layer, then a boom, breakup noises and silence. Five minutes later another boom and breakup noises as the Kilo met the same fate. A mutual kill in the warm Mediterranean waters.

A second night bombing raid by the A-7s from Monte Real, this time carrying 2000 pounders, does a much better job of wrecking the airfield near Oran, and the two Spanish frigates also arrive in time for some night-time naval bombardment of radars and SAM sites in the area. They don't realize it at the time, but those two frigates were extremely lucky - they arrived at night from the north, in an area where the Square Tie surface search radar had been destroyed as an afterthought by strafing attack planes on the way home from bombing the airfield. The frigates are in a bay literally in between two undetected SSM sites, one five miles east, one five miles west, and since none of them can see my frigates they do not fire. My ships sail away cheerfully, ignorant of how close they came to being sunk.

During the day the Spanish light attack planes make some attempts to destroy SAM sites further along the coast by low level bombing, and it works, sort of. The sites can be killed, but it usually takes a plane or two to do it, so after some successes the attacks are called off, since it's not worth the exchange. The frigates are headed east , and they plan to stop by at Algiers for some more naval fire support there, which should be safer (hah!) than using the planes. In the meantime, the airmen ask the Spanish government to buy some HARMs.


OVERNIGHT

As the day of Feb 15th comes to a close, and the major attacks were over, forces withdrew to rest, rearm and regroup. TG Detroit is proceeding along the Spanish coast, and the Ray is past Sicily and en-route to Toulon. The small NATO carriers continue closing in on their RV, with support ships in attendance. The Eisenhower, which had been hiding north of Sicily, turned and started heading west towards to its RV point. A Soviet Victor gets caught off the East coast of Sicily, and sunk by MPA.

By this point the Enterprise is nearly black on air-to-air munitions. I can count my remaining Phoenixes on the fingers of one hand, I've got literally a dozen Sparrows, and even Sidewinders are in short supply. I have no HARMs, no SLAMs. I'm putting fighter aircraft on Ferry loadouts just so I can evacuate them in an emergency. However, I do have some TALDs and IR Mavericks left, as well as iron bombs, so I load my attack planes with those.

In the midst of all this the Soviet bombers arrive, flying north through Tunisia, and they're dangerously close. Scramble! F-104s go to crazed afterburner dash, and my CAP turns south to violate Tunisian neutrality. But then, just as I'm about to activate my task group's radars, the bombers turn about and fly south! Mystified, we continue to patrol... (It turns out that what happened was a couple of hours earlier some of my planes carelessly got too close to Tunisian airspace, and provoked some of their F-5s to come out and ID my planes. In doing so some of them overflew the carrier group and got an ID, which they shared with the Russians. However, it took the Russians two hours to lift off and head north, and in that time the Tunisians lost the contact. When the uncertainty zone expired the Russians continued for a couple of minutes, seeing nothing, and then turned for home.)

I conduct two attacks overnight, both in the west. Newly arrived F-16s fly from Sigonella to hit the Algerian airfield at Ain Beida, and carrier aircraft and the Spanish A-7s hit the Mig-25 base at Ain Oussera. (Those IR Mavericks reveal the horde of SA-6s at the latter site, and deal with them from a safe standoff before the A-7s arrive). The Spanish frigates decide to fly their FLIR-equipped helicopter up the coast in the dark at extremely low altitude and hunt for hidden SAM sites. What they find is hidden SSM sites! The naval bombardment of Algiers is postponed until the surface search radar can be knocked out...


NEXT DAY

Morning comes with another strike in Algeria, this time a dawn raid by Mirages on Laghouat, shutting down the runways with BAP-1000s and Durandals, and strafing and bombing the large number of planes there. F-16s fly OCAPs near Tripoli, and F-4s do the same near Tobruk, but other than that there is no significant action, and my task groups continue to their destination.


Hmmm. That probably wasn't so abbreviated after all. Miscellaneous comments to follow later.

< Message edited by AndrewJ -- 4/16/2017 11:15:48 PM >

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 49
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/17/2017 12:29:31 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Great report Andrew, I look forward to your observations... I was hoping that those bombers would do some better work :-)

B

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Post #: 50
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/18/2017 3:03:33 AM   
AndrewJ

 

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Assorted Observations


ASW

The ASW helicopters on the Moskva are all on a strike mission. This is great if an enemy submarine has been spotted, but at the moment the Russians have little effective way to spot an incoming sub. Their active sonars are all off, and their opponent is a creeping SSK probably coming in on batteries, which is very difficult to hear. The MAD gear on the Helixes (and their active dipping sonar) is probably the most effective chance they have to detect an incoming sub at a distance, and make use of the SS-N-14's long range. Perhaps splitting the helicopters into two missions (4 strike, 6 patrol = 2 at a time) would work well?

Since the KUG is already radiating, NATO probably already has a good idea where it is by ESM, and possibly by direct radar contact if they've brought up any MPA. In those circumstances there's no real loss in turning on the active sonar too. (Especially those 8 mile VDSs and 16 mile hull sonars.) This is especially true given how quiet the SSKs can be.

The Libyan S 311 Al Badr Foxtrot has no mission, so it comes to a stop after 7 hours and remains motionless for the rest of the scenario.


Badger Attack

I tried out the bomber strike a few more times by turning on one of their radars at their furthest advance, which was just enough to get a hit on the Eisenhower group and allow them to continue advancing to the attack. However, they still didn’t open fire, being set to weapons tight, since the carrier group was still a yellow unknown. Changing to weapons free allowed them to fire, but the missiles fired in two clusters. This was because they were only firing two per unknown ship. Upping the WRA to 3 or more results in a better single salvo. Even so, the SAMs in the task group were able to shoot down all the missiles.

The four ARM carrying Badgers will not launch if there are no radars emitting in the target group. This will usually be the case with the Americans operating under an E-2. I’d suggest making these conventional ASMs, which will boost the attack strength by 1/3. All of this together makes an attack that still didn’t get through, but came much closer to succeeding. (Burke empty, Tico at 30%, last missile shot down only 3 nm out.) Some bad die rolls (or an open formation) might make for an unfortunate situation, and if that Algerian strike had shown up, who knows?

The lack of radar and the Weapons Tight WRA are hampering this attack. I understand that they need to be weapons tight to avoid hunting down passing Commercial cargo ships, and the radar needs to be kept off to avoid giving away their approach, but perhaps there’s a way around this? If the Commercial side were to consider the Warpac friendly, but the Commercial side was Blind, then Warpac (or at least this mission) could be set at Weapons Free, while gaining no unrealistic information. (This might be helpful for the Algerian anti-shipping strike too.) They could then attack what a human could readily identify as a group of naval ships, even without precise IDs. (Although they might go for small frigate groups then. Hmmm…)

The inability of the AI to decide to turn on its radars is also problematic. It’s a bit of a cheat, but maybe the same event which tells NATO ‘you’ve got bombers!’ could also tell the bombers to turn on their radars? Sort of a ‘we’ve been spotted, light ‘em up Comrade’ situation?


Scoring

At the moment the scoring events for the NATO CV at RV and NATO Support Ship at RV will fire once per pulse as long as a ship is in the zone. They would need individual non-repeatable events to score the way you intended. (I think the devs may be working on this at the moment.)

The scoring for destroying the Tripoli dock with the three WP merchants is only the standard 1 point for destroying a single land installation. The WP Support Ship Sunk event does not fire, so the NATO side does not get the 75 points for destroying the three ships. You would need a new event scoring 75 points for destruction of the dock in order to get these points.

Although the hostilities briefings call out the need to destroy certain specific barracks, academies, and airbases, you get no points for achieving these goals, beyond the general 1 point per land facility destroyed. Had you intended to give more points for achieving those assigned objectives?

Is it currently possible for a player to achieve the Triumph victory level? Assuming you avoid hostilities with Tunisia the situation is like this. If you sink every enemy ship and find and sink every enemy sub, get all your ships to their RVs, and shut every runway in the game, you’ll be at 1245 points (assuming the WP merchants are fixed and you lose nothing yourself). You would therefore need to destroy 5 enemy units for a Minor, 380 enemy units for a Major, or 755 enemy units for a Triumph. (I got 664 in my playthrough). However, as currently structured you’ll lose 100 points for the first Libyan you shoot and 100 points for the first Algerian you shoot, even if they’ve already gone hostile on you, which means Triumph level would actually require 855 or 955 units. I’m not sure this is possible.


Route planning

You’ve got to be really careful with the route planning to get some of the NATO replenishment ships to their RV. The Durance essentially has to travel at full out flank speed for two days to get there in time, and will only arrive within the last hour. (This is where a total route time tool in the F2 window is really handy. Shame I forgot to use it! ) Any attempt to pause or deviate to form up with escorts will result in a missed rendezvous. (Can ships truly maintain flank speed for that long without risking engineering casualties?)

In order for the Bainbridge to get to the NATO RV in 48 hours it would have to travel 30 knots for the entire trip. This is technically possible for a nuclear cruiser, but it seems risky to the point of recklessness to hazard a major asset like this, all alone, deaf as a post, cutting very close to the missile-boat infested Algerian and Tunisian coast where it is easily spotted, and passing through a region with a major risk of enemy submarines. (This is spoken with the flinch reflex I developed after running my beautiful high-speed TAKRs over a Tango in a certain somebody's Atlantic convoy scenario...) I said heck no, and assigned it as flag of TG Detroit, and sent it to the Eisenhower RV instead.


Libya

I had expected the Libyans to make some sort of coordinated effort to get into the air lanes, but nothing ever materialized. Had you intended to send something that way, or is this a lesson in how important but non-glamorous jobs will suck away your resources?

An attempt on Pantelleria (those suicide boats facilities near Tripoli?) or a strike on the little island radar at Lampedusa might both be interesting options. Knocking off the radar would be well within the Libyan’s capabilities, and could pay dividends by reducing NATO’s situational awareness during the opening anti-shipping strike. (There is a point penalty for losing NATO land targets in the events, but apparently no means to cause it.)

The Libyan anti-shipping attack could have benefitted from having some of their radars on, particularly the Blinders with their massive 175 nm range. Just a few of those on mini-AWACs racetracks would have done a lot more to help the Libyan attack than going in with bombs.

I had wanted to engage some of the lesser Libyan airfields, but most of them are single unit airfields which cannot be engaged effectively (weapons simply aren’t applicable against them). I realize this is probably in order to cut down on AU count, but it also has the consequence that the player cannot get at the aircraft sheltering there, and can’t stop their operations except by waiting to shoot them down. I was able to plan and execute strikes against the Algerian bases going into Day 2, but not the Libyan ones.


Triggers, Events, Actions

The 'Time 15 Feb 0800hrs - 401 FW' trigger actually fires at 8:00 PM instead of AM.

The 'Time 15 Feb 1245hrs - 613 FS prep' trigger actually fires at 1:30 PM.

The message for the 612 FS (the F-16s arriving in Sigonella) says you'll get 18 planes: 4 AA loadouts, 8 LGB loadouts, 4 SEAD loadouts, and 2 Standoff Mk 84 penetrator loadouts (BLU-109 I assume?). However, when the planes have readied I got 24 planes: 4 AA, 8 Mk 82 iron bombs, and 12 on ferry loadout. This doesn't match the Lua script or the message. Perhaps some of the planes still being in the air at the time the event fires could have had something to do with it? Only 12 planes are on the ground when it fires. (The base has no HARMs or standoff munitions beyond LGBs, so no reloads possible.)

The Algerian aircraft at Laghout are on a land strike mission with a radius of 300 nm, and therefore cannot reach enemy targets. Were these supposed to be on an anti-ship mission instead?


Miscellaneous

The F-18s take HARM Bs, but the Eisenhower's magazines are mostly filled with HARM Cs (32) and only 8 Bs. I changed the Cs to Bs. Hopefully that is what you had intended.

Some of the fuel tanks at Trapani are damaged. Maybe left over from previous scenarios?

Typo: In Msg 2 MEF transit, "Two USMC Sqns from 2 MEF are transiting through to Sauda Bay on Create" (I think you got nailed by autocorrect for the name Crete.)

Typo: in side briefing, "b. Much or the rest will assemble in the Eastern Med for operations against Syria."

Laghouat could probably use little bit of air defence.


But did you like it?

Heck yes! This is one of my favorites so far. So many things going on, a living environment, potential threats at every quarter, and you don't have massive overmatch to just stomp the foe. An excellent scenario overall.

< Message edited by AndrewJ -- 4/18/2017 3:05:14 AM >

(in reply to alghblag)
Post #: 51
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/18/2017 10:14:18 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Thank you Andrew

One of the best reports ever - lots of very useful and thoughtful bits in there.

Will get an update out by the weekend.

B

(in reply to AndrewJ)
Post #: 52
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/18/2017 8:14:12 PM   
Primarchx


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Awesome writeup! I've been waiting for the 'moving UK TF 50nm' version to start another run.

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 53
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/19/2017 12:33:22 AM   
trebor6669

 

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Excellent scenario and great writeups.
Those MIG-29s are killing me in the West.

(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 54
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/19/2017 12:50:55 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Glad your enjoying it.

Just working through an update:

Any Lua guru's able to tell me what I'm doing wrong on this command:

ScenEdit_UpdateEvent('Libya Hostile', {remove_action='NATO -100'})

I want to fire this action if Libya goes hostile first, to remove the 100 point penalty. The syntax seems to work but the action does not get removed.

Thanks

B

(in reply to trebor6669)
Post #: 55
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/20/2017 12:07:58 AM   
Gunner98

 

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OK

Here is version 1.4

I probably have not got everything. The Libyan bases will stay as single unit fields as they will be the target in the next scenario (and it would be a major rebuild to fix it at this point). Please feel free to comment or critique whatever you see - that's how these get better.

Special thanks to AndrewJ for the great reports.

Change Log:
• Moved the Illustrious TG about 80nm north
• Moved the Libyan snooper with the Illustrious north as well and he is now tied to the TG
• Set the Algerians to treat the Libyans Neutral after hostilities begin but to friendly once Algeria joins the fight
• Removed the 100 point penalty if they Libyans or Algerians start hostiltieis
• Fixed the French Helo basing
• Added a Rubis and a Churchill class SSN, accounted for the rest in the brief. They are far enough away that they should not get a crack at the Soviet ships.
• Tightened up the Brit TG formation
• Added some Mavericks for the AMX’s, not many and only at their main bases. Either go back to reload or use some of your AC to ferry some reloads into the forward bases.
• Added ‘Arsenal de Cartagena’ a Spanish Naval base on the SE coast of Spain
• The Ike now has 180 Aim-7Ms, the Detroit has 240
• Some of the Blinders are now acting as MPA
• Added an ASW Ptl for the Soviet SAG, another surprise or two
• Al Badr now has a Ptl zone
• For the Badger Strike, am toying with a couple settings in the mission planner which I have not used before. Hopefully this fixes it.
• Fixed up some scoring issues
• You get 5 additional points for each of 25 key buildings destroyed (125)
• The three Sov ships sortie so you can sink them (75)
• Reduced the Triumph threshold by 250
• Libyan Air Force is a little more dynamic
• Delayed the Prep msg for 612 Sqn and put some standoff weapons at Sigonella
• Fixed the mission at Laghouat
• Added more HARM B’s to the Ike
• A bunch of minor fixes


Enjoy

Attachment (1)

(in reply to AndrewJ)
Post #: 56
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/20/2017 1:02:33 PM   
Primarchx


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Looking forward to trying this one again soon!

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 57
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/20/2017 2:07:40 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
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From: Melbourne, Australia
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The continual firing of the 'unit enters area' should be fixed in latest 1.12; it should just fire the once when the unit enters the area.
The UpdateEvent currently only handles actions of type 'Lua Script'. I intend to expand it but initially was concentrating on Lua options.
This would be correct syntax if it did handle other types of actions:
ScenEdit_UpdateEvent('Libya Hostile',{ type='remove_action', description='nato -100'})

< Message edited by michaelm -- 4/20/2017 2:22:19 PM >


_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 58
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/20/2017 2:27:04 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Thanks Michael

I use that one a lot. Will it fire once for multiple triggers or multiple occurrences?

i.e.: Have changed it in this one but the original set up had a repeatable event with three triggers - one for each of the NATO CVs. My idea was that each of the three CVs would trigger the event but each one would only trigger it once.

Also: I would often like to assign points for each unit of a certain type entering an area.

i.e.: A Sqn of tankers is transferring to a base, each individual would trigger the event but only once each.

Thanks again

Bart


(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 59
RE: New Scenario for testing Mediterranean Fury 3 Casba... - 4/20/2017 10:21:32 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Thanks Michael

I use that one a lot. Will it fire once for multiple triggers or multiple occurrences?

i.e.: Have changed it in this one but the original set up had a repeatable event with three triggers - one for each of the NATO CVs. My idea was that each of the three CVs would trigger the event but each one would only trigger it once.

Also: I would often like to assign points for each unit of a certain type entering an area.

i.e.: A Sqn of tankers is transferring to a base, each individual would trigger the event but only once each.

Thanks again

Bart



For the 'CVs at RV', it should fire when any of the triggers hold true. Only thing not exactly sure of is if more than one of the CVs hit the area at the same time; staggered it should be fine. I think that was a limitation originally, but now that I have slightly change it, I think it should handle it - just need to run some tests on it.

_____________________________

Michael

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