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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 2:49:49 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

It's easy for me to criticize John (and boy, have I done so) - but I do agree that there is a "method to his madness" that makes sense to him.

Now, that "sense" isn't helping him move towards the end-game that puts him in a good defensive position...I feel his raids are not necessarily "bad" but they are being used on such far-flung targets which don't actually prevent CR from continuing his operations.

A better strategy would be to consolidate his remaining naval assets closer to the HI & then try for smaller-scale raids (think operationally, not strategically) to actually disrupt your operations.

At least, in my mind, that makes much of a cohesive strategy.


It seems to me Japan endgame revolves around the sometimes conflicting goals of delay and victory point harvesting.





(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 10021
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 2:52:39 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

It's easy for me to criticize John (and boy, have I done so) - but I do agree that there is a "method to his madness" that makes sense to him.

Now, that "sense" isn't helping him move towards the end-game that puts him in a good defensive position...I feel his raids are not necessarily "bad" but they are being used on such far-flung targets which don't actually prevent CR from continuing his operations.

A better strategy would be to consolidate his remaining naval assets closer to the HI & then try for smaller-scale raids (think operationally, not strategically) to actually disrupt your operations.

At least, in my mind, that makes much of a cohesive strategy.



Critical thinking helps in understanding things. Instead of rounding up horses he may be rounding up VPs.

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 10022
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 2:57:41 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		And when CR begins mass bombing of his industry, those VPs are just going to start ticking off....

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 10023
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 3:01:37 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

And when CR begins mass bombing of his industry, those VPs are just going to start ticking off....



You got that right! The first firestorms really are shocking!

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Post #: 10024
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 3:18:22 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I meant piling in all those repair ships to Manila. You would generate a ton of repair points and I am guessing it will become the primary sub base among other things.



The fleet is in the early stages of moving from Legaspi to Manila. I'm testing the straits, first, to make sure the enemy CD unit at Bataan isn't effective. I'm nearly sure now that it isn't.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 10025
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 3:29:32 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I meant piling in all those repair ships to Manila. You would generate a ton of repair points and I am guessing it will become the primary sub base among other things.



The fleet is in the early stages of moving from Legaspi to Manila. I'm testing the straits, first, to make sure the enemy CD unit at Bataan isn't effective. I'm nearly sure now that it isn't.



I pulled a fast one in my late game against Tiemanj. I put a very low aggression leader in charge of the CD guns at Fusan & Torishima and put them on rest. The Allies moved two or three destroyer task forces thru, and I saw a CVE force approaching. I swapped out the leaders for a high aggression leader and switched them to combat. I think I sank 10 CVEs!

I have no clue what Japan has there...just saying that desperate JFB's can come up with a number of strange tactics....plus I think the game engine is a little strange when it comes to straits.



(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10026
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 3:46:39 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Geez. Yikes at what clever people think of. Thanks for the great tip. So far subs, an AM, a DD, an LST and an SC have transited the strait without incident, but your clever strategy is a fantastic and timely warning to beware. I think the Allied will vanquish Bataan in a week or two, so I'd better be safe than sorry.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 10027
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 4:13:16 PM   
Jellicoe


Posts: 157
Joined: 9/26/2012
From: Kent, UK
Status: offline 		Is Manila big enough for the Sumatra (or was it Celebes?) or Lexington?

Bit too close to the front yet but once the main fleet base has moved forward it would save a long slow and dangerous trip to Pearl or Sydney. Having Manilla's shipyards on hand will be a godsend for peep show and the fighting round Miri. Having to send Japanese back to Singapore or Sorebaja looks remote by comparison

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Post #: 10028
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 4:17:57 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		You have a good memory, Jellicoe! One of my CVs (Sumatra) is at Legaspi and is a great candidate for repair, once I first attend to the quicker triage of DDs and CA Baltimore (which needs a little work). CV Lexington was hit a bit harder and is holed up in the DEI. I probably won't move her until some distant day when John finally gives up on the DEI. (He has patrols and LBA and occasionally Mini KB active in these waters, and has had ever since Big Tent got underway.)

Yes, Manila's shipyard will be a huge benefit. John already knows that Hong Kong, Singers, and Soerabaja are risky for him. Even his yards in southern Japan are at risk now. So triage is going to be an issue for him, which is why the single torp that Musashi took a week back is a pretty big deal...and perhaps ditto for the 1,000-pounders (seven of them) that hit his CB at Luganville two days back.

(in reply to Jellicoe)
Post #: 10029
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 4:57:57 PM   
Jellicoe


Posts: 157
Joined: 9/26/2012
From: Kent, UK
Status: offline 		By that same token is the Washington out of the yard yet?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10030
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 5:04:55 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Dang, have you been taking notes?

Washington, in the yards at San Fran, after taking torps in the Marshalls a year ago and holing up there for more than half a year, is less than 30 days from being ready to go.

The only other ship of real note is CA Baltimore. She took heavy damage in the big naval battle near Luzon at the opening of Fun House. But only a small amount of damage was major. She's nearly ready to go after sitting at pierside at Legaspi. She needs about six FLT repair at Manila, and she'll be as good as new. She's an important part of the mix, so not having to send her home for repairs is most welcome.

Oh, and there's CVE Manila Bay, that ate a torp or two near the Torres Strait as Fun House was moving north from Oz, months ago. She's paired with an ARD at an Australian port, her FLT damage about a month from being repaired. Then she'll probably need a few months at Sydney to handle Eng damage.

(in reply to Jellicoe)
Post #: 10031
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 5:10:49 PM   
Anachro


Posts: 2506
Joined: 11/23/2015
From: The Coastal Elite
Status: offline 		In my allied PBEM, BB Washington had five torpedoes planted into her on her maiden voyage from Los Angeles to PH. Sunk without seeing combat. Still haven't gotten over that. She had ASW too!

I am enjoying the back and forth of your game, Canoerebel. Don't have much time to comment on these forums anymore due to a very busy real life, but I still peek in to see what happens in your game.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10032
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 5:23:37 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline 		....






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 4/25/2017 5:25:24 PM >

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Post #: 10033
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 6:11:28 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I pulled a fast one in my late game against Tiemanj. I put a very low aggression leader in charge of the CD guns at Fusan & Torishima and put them on rest. The Allies moved two or three destroyer task forces thru, and I saw a CVE force approaching. I swapped out the leaders for a high aggression leader and switched them to combat. I think I sank 10 CVEs!



Lowpe, you are one devious son of a ....
It goes to show even under desperate circumstances a clever player can make things very painful for the other side.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 10034
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 7:09:24 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Makee Learn's visual is a fitting one...but the map in the next post is probably the single-best illustration of John III that he could orchestrate.

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 10035
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 7:11:55 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/6/44

SoPac (and the corresponding impact on Peep Show): During the combat replay, SoPac KB seemed to disappear. She didn't attack any ships (a nice surprise) and didn't show up under patrols. I thought, with lament, that she'd retired and would be heading back to the Formosa region.

Then I opened the turn file and found this smile-inducing visual of SoPac KB:





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/25/2017 7:46:09 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10036
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 7:25:32 PM   
jwolf

 

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quote:

I'd be glad to feed him occasional victims to keep his blood lust up.


Very Stalinesque! If John does withdraw, he may launch a few port strikes on the way out. But your crippled ships really have no other choice than what you have already made.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10037
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 7:42:08 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		Imagine all the fuel he's burning....

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 10038
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 7:42:09 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/6/44

Fun House: Allied armies on the march in Luzon will close on the remaining pockets over the next few days.

Peep Show, the Prequel: Death Star continues to nurture the early opening Peep Show operation to take enemy islands between Luzon and Formosa. Orchid Island auto-flipped today. A big USN construction regiment will be coming from Naga over the next six or seven days.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 10039
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 7:59:08 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		7/6/44

Manila is a tremendous triage center already, and that is likely to increase in coming months.

Bataan is still in enemy hands, so I haven't shifted the fleet here yet from Legaspi. I send ships in spurts, testing the straits and finding the CD guns thus far ineffective. But Lowpe's cautionary tale stands out.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10040
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 8:07:47 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Fuel is not flowing to Manila because there is no fuel usage going on there - because there is no fuel! Catch-22.
You just need to prime the pump with a small tanker load and have the ships use it. After that it should flow from Legaspi.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10041
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 8:30:57 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		Sounds like a good opportunity to use your smaller combatants to clear out those "riff-raff." Perhaps set up some CAP-traps of your own.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10042
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 8:38:11 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		What did you end up losing? 3 CVE's? Serious question, how long will it take for 3 CVE's to roll out of the shipyards?

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 10043
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 8:48:27 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		With the Akagi there you really can't call the Singers CV TF the mini KB can you?




(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 10044
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 8:48:55 PM   
BillBrown


Posts: 2335
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Status: offline 		3 weeks?

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 10045
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 8:51:25 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf


Lowpe, you are one devious son of a ....
It goes to show even under desperate circumstances a clever player can make things very painful for the other side.


A few weeks later, after Hiroshima fell, I managed to use DD, or APD or MTB to divert another CVE task force heading to Hiroshima to route away from the nasty surface fleet and take the route past my CD guns and sunk a half dozen or more. There were two ways to Hiroshima, and the AI chose the path less traveled to their chagrin.




(in reply to jwolf)
Post #: 10046
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 8:57:40 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		"From a victory point standpoint, this raid is a netplus for John, unless it results in VP losses elsewhere".


VP's are all that matters in this game. I'm doubting that you knowing some IJ CV's are in the SoPac changes your plans one bit.

_____________________________


(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 10047
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 9:19:44 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
... though at the moment Manial doesn't have fuel. It's not drawing it overland for Legaspi, despite the good network.

You know what to do - same you did at Normanton. Base DS from Manila for a couple turns and fuel will stock up

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10048
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/25/2017 9:49:47 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut
VP's are all that matters in this game. I'm doubting that you knowing some IJ CV's are in the SoPac changes your plans one bit.


"VPs are all that matters" is the truth but not the whole truth. The whole truth is that correctly positioning yourself to maximize VPs is the key to the game.

The question is whether SoPac KB's raid is ultimately beneficial, from a VP standpoint. Tactically, yes. Operationally, probably. Strategically, I contend, no way.


< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 4/25/2017 9:50:16 PM >

(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 10049
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 4/26/2017 12:09:46 AM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		My point was - what do you gain from it? Does these CV's in the SoPac speed up your conquest elsewhere? If so, by how much? And if it does by "that much", do you outgain the VP's lost?

Just questions :)

_____________________________


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Post #: 10050
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