Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27

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Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/25/2017 4:44:41 PM

Lanzfeld

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Playing "Iron Hand" scenario and enjoying it immensely.

I did noticed something that is very odd about my SU27 flankers loadout however. They have two types of missiles in the CAP Configuration. The Alamo 10A and the Alamo10C (better weapon for standoff). I did not notice until after my first engagements that my magazine stores don't have any Alamo 10A's but there are plenty of Alamo 10C's. No problem. The C's are better anyway.

Except now they can't re-launch and use the Alamo 10C's because there are not enough 10A's to completely fill the wings and let the Flankers Re-launch!

So even though I have over 70 very capable air to air missile's available for standoff AND a ton of archers for shorter range you're not going to let me launch my airplanes because I missing the lesser performing stand off missile? Ummmmmmm........guys......we are at war here and I'm looking at a pile of good missiles that I cannot use......well I CAN use them but you won't let me fly because we don't have any of the A's?

Did I uncover a little oversight in the loadout restrictions?

It seems to me that after the SU 27's shoot off the Alamo 10C's then they should return to base to load up more C's before they shoot off their Alamo 10A's. Not good.

It's like the squad machine gunner or not being able to go to the front lines because his pistol is missing two rounds

< Message edited by Lanzfeld -- 5/25/2017 5:00:35 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/25/2017 5:34:50 PM

cns180784

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Yea i see what you mean even though i havent had this problem before, i've always wondered by looking at the loadouts that if a certain missile isnt available then it cant be equipped at all which is a bit ridiculous hopefully this will be seen to or that loadouts that include just one type of missile for all missiles in the game are brought in. I'm playing Iron Hand myself but have only barely started it so now i know i'll have this problem myself.

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Post #: 2

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/25/2017 6:51:33 PM

Lanzfeld

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When your flankers launch their Alamo C's immediately RTB or they will not be able to do A2A anymore even though you have a ton of C's left.

DONT USE THE A's!!!

< Message edited by Lanzfeld -- 5/25/2017 6:54:21 PM >

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Post #: 3

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/25/2017 7:32:49 PM

Eggstor

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Looking over the scenario, I believe when it got rebuilt last, Alamo-E's were somehow substituted for Alamo-A's, as there are 144 -E's and 0 A's at Akhtubinsk. Until that's fixed (hopefully with the next build), I'd suggest changing the global Weapons Release Authorization for the -A so that it is not used at all.

Related, there's a rather nasty bug with magazines.

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RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/25/2017 7:36:22 PM

cns180784

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Never thought of that- so yea theres' a decent quick fix just dont allow firing the A's.

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Post #: 5

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/25/2017 7:50:23 PM

Lanzfeld

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Yes it's strange because the two southern airports that you have access to do not have a magazine button You can look at.

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RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/25/2017 8:01:18 PM

Eggstor

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I couldn't duplicate the magazine bug I saw earlier, but there's another limitation in the scenario that adversely affects a proper fix for that scenario - the magazine at Akhtubinsk is overloaded. Even after I took out the Alamo-E's, there's only room for 108 Alamo-A's in the magazine, probably because there's two entries for the AS-10 Karen (a 40/10000 entry and a 40/20 entry).

Either adding a second Munitions magazine or deleting one of the AS-10 entries does allow for the 36 Alamo-A's needed to allow the 36 "default" air-to-air reloads suggested by the presence of 72 Alamo-C's. Either method of fixing this scenario can be done by everybody through the Scenario Editor. It won't even require a shallow rebuild; just a save once the -A's are added. I would recommend backing up the scenario first, though.

< Message edited by Eggstor -- 5/25/2017 8:04:21 PM >

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RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/25/2017 8:02:46 PM

Eggstor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lanzfeld

Yes it's strange because the two southern airports that you have access to do not have a magazine button You can look at.

If you're talking about the Armenian bases, you'll have to switch to that side in the scenario editor to get the magazine button to pop up.

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Post #: 8

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/25/2017 8:05:36 PM

Lanzfeld

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Cant change global settings to not use A's because that makes my MiG 29 's useless!

Just change it for SU27's

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Post #: 9

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/25/2017 10:38:12 PM

mikmykWS

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Hi

Quick fix is to just open the airbase magazine and add the weapon in the editor. We'll add this as a thing to fix next build.

Thanks

Mike

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Post #: 10

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/26/2017 3:50:12 PM

Lanzfeld

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Maybe on the CAP loadout we could make the "A's" optional.

Just a flexability thought to avoid grounding the whole airframe for 1 missing missle.

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Post #: 11

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/26/2017 3:53:42 PM

mikmykWS

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Yeah probably makes sense

Mike

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RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/26/2017 9:13:47 PM

AndrewJ

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Would it be worth considering making all missiles optional in any AA loadout? While it would be impractical to model every conceivable partial loadout combination, setting the AA missile loudouts to optional would accomplish the same thing. No more failures to launch with Sidewinders because the quartermaster insists you need some Sparrows too. I know that in many situations a plane with only one or two missiles (or even just its cannons) can be a very useful tool, especially in desperate defensive cases. Sometimes a single Sidewinder makes all the difference!

(For those looking for a work-around, CMANO allows you to simulate this by ignoring magazines during readying, then manually removing excess missiles after launch, and manually removing missiles from the magazines to ensure you don't give yourself any extras. It's a little cumbersome if you need to do it a lot, but the function is there if you need it.)

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Post #: 13

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/26/2017 9:20:47 PM

mikmykWS

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Yeah it might be good to do that. Added to our list of things to look at.

Mike

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Post #: 14

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/26/2017 9:27:17 PM

Lanzfeld

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Seriously......I've beta tested for another company and I have to say that the way you guys address the community is top notch.....just like the last company.

I salute!

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Post #: 15

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/26/2017 10:08:18 PM

Eggstor

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I'd say we're headed toward the custom loadout discussion bantied about in another thread (and that's a good thing

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RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/26/2017 10:19:14 PM

Sardaukar

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Remember that custom loadouts would require massive drag/fuel/whatnot calculations to be programmed in.

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Post #: 17

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/26/2017 10:35:58 PM

Eggstor

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Drag/weight (combined) calculations for each loadout are already part of the current system. Of course, it isn't going to be quite as simple as scaling it for multiple hardpoints on a platform, but that would probably be one of the easier modifications.

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Post #: 18

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/26/2017 10:44:29 PM

mikmykWS

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No we're not going there just yet I don't think. That would be a pretty big project because it's not just adding weapons but recalculating many values for any delta.

Thanks

Mike

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Post #: 19

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/27/2017 12:27:30 AM

mikmykWS

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Hi Guys

Updated scenario located at end of string

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3972084&mpage=1&key=�

Let me know what you think

Mike

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Post #: 20

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/27/2017 2:02:10 AM

Dan109

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Joined: 4/27/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewJ

Would it be worth considering making all missiles optional in any AA loadout? While it would be impractical to model every conceivable partial loadout combination, setting the AA missile loudouts to optional would accomplish the same thing. No more failures to launch with Sidewinders because the quartermaster insists you need some Sparrows too. I know that in many situations a plane with only one or two missiles (or even just its cannons) can be a very useful tool, especially in desperate defensive cases. Sometimes a single Sidewinder makes all the difference!

(For those looking for a work-around, CMANO allows you to simulate this by ignoring magazines during readying, then manually removing excess missiles after launch, and manually removing missiles from the magazines to ensure you don't give yourself any extras. It's a little cumbersome if you need to do it a lot, but the function is there if you need it.)

I agree that the setting of certain weapons to be optional needs to be done much more often. In my example, if I run out of torpedoes for ASW missions, I can't launch any more and have to use maritime surveillance loadouts. But in my opinion, torpedoes on an ASW Craft are the secondary 'weapons', where the sono-buoys for detection and tracking are the most important item carried (and sonobuoys are unlimited for now, so yes, I want to take advantage of that fact, but regardless, detection-tracking is more important than attacking IMO). But yeah, I do understand that for each combo of optional weapons needed, that's another custom loadout that needs to have weight/drag/etc calculated....a function to do this on the fly would be helpful for sure.

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Post #: 21

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/27/2017 12:16:05 PM

Eggstor

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Nice update . A couple of minor quibbles:

- There probably should be 144 Alamo A's at Akhtubinsk instead of 72. The preset air-to-air loadout uses 4 A's and 2 C's.
- If you're keeping the anti-AWACS Alamo E's, that should probably be knocked down to 72. The loadout that uses the E's uses 2 A's, 2 C's and 2 E's.

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Post #: 22

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/27/2017 1:46:20 PM

mikmykWS

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Thanks Steve

Adjusted mags.

File here

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3972084&mpage=1&key=�

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Post #: 23

RE: Odd Loadout Restriction For SU27 - 5/27/2017 6:48:10 PM

Lanzfeld

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The config file and the SCEN file are different.