Ships with loadouts down the road?

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Ships with loadouts down the road? - 5/29/2017 2:31:33 AM

Dan109

Posts: 175
Joined: 4/27/2017
Status: offline

Hi All,

I do recall reading something here about ships NOT having loadouts for a variety of reasons, even the LCS Packages are not interchangeable within any meaningful amount of time of a scenario. However, 2 issues make me think that it will be necessary to have loadouts for ships, so that choices can be made while 'docked'.

LCAC Example

First of all, it does support surf and beach mine detection/removal. I've seen plenty of "vague" references in many .mil publications, but haven't seen the dirty details. But it definitely would not be allow to take cargo of any sorts while on such a mission.

2nd, LCAC cargo missions are not modeled nearly as well as aircraft. Aircraft have specific loadouts for their cargo capacity, and this in turn reflects its things like agility and most importantly, fuel consumption rate, which really brings the realism up front. But with LCACs, max cargo capacity does not affect the fuel consumption rate. It's rate continues like it was unloaded. Now to compensate, it does appear that LCACs are limited to a 50nm Cargo Mission radius, but if you wanted to do it manually, you simply defy physics. Having loadouts for various ranges would be a great improvement to LCAC abilities.

Mine Detection and Clearing Example

While looking into this extensively, its quite amazing what the US Navy is doing. However, its looking more and more like you have a ship, docked inside another ship, docked inside another ship. That works, to an extent. Case in point, the CUSV can launch vehicles like towed subsurface detectors or neutralizers. It can also tow surface sonars or mag/acoustic sleds. All of this, while being able to doc inside an LCS.

However, the CUSV is quite a quagmire with the way things work today. Its side sonar is not there by default, but an optional payload at the expensive of other payloads, as are the UISS, AN/AQS-20, and Mine Neutralization packages. However, all of these capabilities are designed to be flexible, with a single CUSV - rather than having to carry 3 or 4 of them, only 1 should be needed to accomplish all missions (spares are good in case the mine wins

). Aircraft presented the same challenge, and that's why they have loadouts.

I know its quite a dilemma, but wanted to bring some what I think are good examples for the need to consider this direction.

Cheers,
Dan

Post #: 1

RE: Ships with loadouts down the road? - 5/29/2017 3:23:56 AM

HalfLifeExpert

Posts: 911
Joined: 7/20/2015
From: California, United States
Status: offline

Interesting, this probably should be done eventually.

On a similar note, perhaps there could be a new feature in the scenario editor, where with aircraft carriers, you can choose to have a pre-configured aircraft loadout. I know it would take a lot of time to enter in the prefab air wings into the DBs, but it would be very handy.

(in reply to Dan109)

Post #: 2

RE: Ships with loadouts down the road? - 5/29/2017 12:22:06 PM

mikmykWS

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan109

Hi All,

I do recall reading something here about ships NOT having loadouts for a variety of reasons, even the LCS Packages are not interchangeable within any meaningful amount of time of a scenario. However, 2 issues make me think that it will be necessary to have loadouts for ships, so that choices can be made while 'docked'.

LCAC Example

First of all, it does support surf and beach mine detection/removal. I've seen plenty of "vague" references in many .mil publications, but haven't seen the dirty details. But it definitely would not be allow to take cargo of any sorts while on such a mission.

2nd, LCAC cargo missions are not modeled nearly as well as aircraft. Aircraft have specific loadouts for their cargo capacity, and this in turn reflects its things like agility and most importantly, fuel consumption rate, which really brings the realism up front. But with LCACs, max cargo capacity does not affect the fuel consumption rate. It's rate continues like it was unloaded. Now to compensate, it does appear that LCACs are limited to a 50nm Cargo Mission radius, but if you wanted to do it manually, you simply defy physics. Having loadouts for various ranges would be a great improvement to LCAC abilities.

Mine Detection and Clearing Example

While looking into this extensively, its quite amazing what the US Navy is doing. However, its looking more and more like you have a ship, docked inside another ship, docked inside another ship. That works, to an extent. Case in point, the CUSV can launch vehicles like towed subsurface detectors or neutralizers. It can also tow surface sonars or mag/acoustic sleds. All of this, while being able to doc inside an LCS.

However, the CUSV is quite a quagmire with the way things work today. Its side sonar is not there by default, but an optional payload at the expensive of other payloads, as are the UISS, AN/AQS-20, and Mine Neutralization packages. However, all of these capabilities are designed to be flexible, with a single CUSV - rather than having to carry 3 or 4 of them, only 1 should be needed to accomplish all missions (spares are good in case the mine wins ). Aircraft presented the same challenge, and that's why they have loadouts.

I know its quite a dilemma, but wanted to bring some what I think are good examples for the need to consider this direction.

Cheers,
Dan

Dan you can modify the sensors or weapons of platform using the configuration files. Check that part out in the manual. If you look at the ini file for the One Two Punch you'll see the changes there that I did.

Thanks

Mike

_____________________________

(in reply to Dan109)

Post #: 3

RE: Ships with loadouts down the road? - 5/29/2017 1:14:49 PM

Dan109

Posts: 175
Joined: 4/27/2017
Status: offline

Mike, I'm specifically talking about being about to change the craft while docked, just like an aircraft can while parked. I'd want my CUSV first to sweep with a UISS to clear acoustic/mag mines. Then later with the an/aqs-20 or 24 for contact mines. Then I may want to sweep with the knifefish for bottom/buried mines. And if a my-60s wasn't available, I'd have to load up a seafox or archerfish. After, I want no payload to perform a long range ISR mission. As the RVVM is dead, the CUSV will be a very versatile surface craft.

I'm not suggesting most surf craft can have loadouts, in fact it would be very few. I'll try to think of more examples, but the lcac is very strong example as well, as is doesn't have variable payload options, like all aircraft.

Thx

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 4

RE: Ships with loadouts down the road? - 5/29/2017 1:38:27 PM

mikmykWS

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline

Might be a lua way to do this at some point.

M

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(in reply to Dan109)

Post #: 5

RE: Ships with loadouts down the road? - 5/29/2017 9:25:47 PM

michaelm75au

Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

You can add/remove sensors and mounts with Lua:
ScenEdit_UpdateUnit({name='My ship',mode='add_sensor',dbid=3352})
ScenEdit_UpdateUnit({name='My Ship',mode='remove_sensor',dbid=3352,sensorId='871aea14-d963-4052-a7fc-ed36e97bb732'})

Doing same for weapons on the mount is in the works.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 6

RE: Ships with loadouts down the road? - 5/29/2017 11:53:13 PM

Dan109

Posts: 175
Joined: 4/27/2017
Status: offline

Well, there are some missing LUA abilities to do this. But it's very close to being do-able in a proper format.

1. No access to docking state or readying time - a q&a dialog launched via special action (only if unit was docked and READY), could ensue to pick a custom loadout. Would also need ability to set craft to readying dock state and reset ready time)
2. Inability to modify cargo max limits of the unit, nor modify the fuel consumption rate - I can modify current fuel as a very ugly work around, but that still doesn't let me do long range cargo delivery with minimal cargo limits. So, with new DB entries added for a handful of dockable cargo carriers with different max fuel and cargo weight limits should handle this.

So, with a few improved LUA abilities, this should be very do-able. I would definitely commit to writing the ability to do this, sharing with community the method to add it to any scenario. Depending on how many other surf craft examples if find, I might even go to the extent of scanning the DB to create a list of craft that have this ability to make it DB future proof.

(in reply to michaelm75au)

Post #: 7