Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Advantages:
- better modeling and brings play balance up to date
- prevents the scenario from going stagnant and becoming ignored

Disadvantages:
- more work on old scenarios means less work on new ones
- not everyone has or will have CoW so it might limit usability

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Advantages:
- better modeling and brings play balance up to date
- prevents the scenario from going stagnant and becoming ignored

Disadvantages:
- more work on old scenarios means less work on new ones
- not everyone has or will have CoW so it might limit usability

Will the designer need to have 2 separate files for their community pack scenarios i.e. one CoW enabled and the other left alone? If we knew the percent of users having CoW capabilities designers can make an informed decision on whether to upgrade their work. Not sure this can be answered directly since it involves sales figures. Does simply upgrading mean the scenario has to be re-tested to any degree?

Kevin

quote:

ORIGINAL: cns180784

From what i've gathered if you want to enable an older scenario to include a/c damage modelling all you need to do is a deep rebuild to the latest DB right? if so it takes 2 seconds.

For the creator of any scenario especially if they've made tens or more to have to deep rebuild all of these will take time for them that they shouldnt need to do. They gave us the scenarios to enjoy in the first place so we can just rebuild them ourselves. As i said takes 2 seconds.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkin

quote:

ORIGINAL: cns180784

From what i've gathered if you want to enable an older scenario to include a/c damage modelling all you need to do is a deep rebuild to the latest DB right? if so it takes 2 seconds.

For the creator of any scenario especially if they've made tens or more to have to deep rebuild all of these will take time for them that they shouldnt need to do. They gave us the scenarios to enjoy in the first place so we can just rebuild them ourselves. As i said takes 2 seconds.

I am not sure what is meant by a "deep re-build" nor how a new or experienced designer can insure within "2 seconds" that the process (if one even exists) produces a new quality scenario within the intent of the original design. There has been no direction from the "top" on this.

You can rebuild old scenarios, but do not complain about the results achieved and never re-post them without the original designer's consent. If you can not contact them - do not post their modified work.

This thread is dealing with some very important open questions re: the launch of CoW. Keep the thoughts coming.

Respectfully.

Kevin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Randomizer

I have updated and uploaded three of my older Community scenarios to enable aircraft damage since all are aviation oriented. That said, the almost total lack of interest, expressed as downloads, means that I'm unlikely to bother uploading any more updates or scenarios period. Of course there's a possibility that they're just crappy scenarios, particularly when compared to the quality of the DLC scenarios thus far.

Everybody gets the editor to use and everybody can perform deep-rebuilds of community scenarios to add aircraft damage for their own use as they like. I had originally thought that upgrading and uploading one's community scenarios would be a good idea but no longer.

-C

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Rebuilding is one thing - and its quick.
Re-balancing is another - and its not.
Thanks for all your comments, thoughtful and helpful. Keep em coming.

B

quote:

ORIGINAL: c3k

Replying to apache85's comment about the ease of a deep-rebuild and the helpful pointing to page 79-90 in the manual.

First, thanks for the page reference. I'm looking at the manual and trying to follow along. This is...not as simple as it seems.

If you disagree, well, take this as feedback from customer. (Another moderator took umbrage at any criticism of the UI. If this is a sensitive subject, let me know. It's presented as an opportunity to improve the game.)

The manual skips a LOT of steps.

Here is what I've done, and where I'm stuck:

1. Open the game to the main menu.
2. Select, from the main menu, "Scenario Editor->Load Existing Scenario".
3. Okay, the goal is a deep-rebuild of EVERY scenario, using the manual's "multiple rebuild" method, 7.1.3
4. Which scenario do I choose? I must choose ONE to enter the editor. I chose "Tutorials/History of Air Combat".
5. The scenario opens up, apparently in editor mode? (I'm not sure how to tell.)
6. Using the instructions (and some extrapolation), I go to the menu bar and select, "Editor/Database/Upgrade Scenario to latest DB version".
7. That opens a multi-optioned window. The upper portion allows me to rebuild the CURRENT scenario, either SHALLOW or DEEP. The lower portion allows, "Deep-Rebuild All Scenarios in List".
8. My goal is the "Deep Rebuild" of ALL my scenarios. (I'm not concerned about balance, but accuracy in the sim.)
9. Selecting "Deep-Rebuild of All Scenarios in List" opens another window, with a windows file explorer view. I navigate to my scenarios directory/folder.
10. I cannot drag and drop from the open scenarios folder into the CMANO editor window. Hmm.
11. Digging down into the folders, I select Chains of War and the list shows all scenarios...with two files per. E.g., "Blue Dawn" and "Blue Dawn.scen".
12. I cannot select multiple files (shift-left click, or ctl-left click). I cannot drag multiple files, one at at time, into the editor window.
13. If I choose "Blue Dawn" (a configuration file 14kb), I get "No XML Data Found".
14. If I choose "Blue Dawn.scen", I also get "No XML Data Found".

I do not see how to do a multiple scenario deep rebuild.
I do not know how to do a SINGLE scenario deep rebuild using the "List" functionality as described. (Does "No XML Data Found" mean it failed or it worked???)

I play CMANO on 3 computers (using steam). Do I have to individually select each and every scenario across each computer to perform a deep rebuild? Or, can I just do it on one and copy the rebuilt scenarios onto the other 2 computers?

Whereas I very much appreciate the manual reference, I am still unable to perform multiple scenario rebuilds.

I am not being obtuse: I am describing, in detail, why the rebuild process is a mystery/pain for this user.

Thanks for any assist in understanding what I'm doing wrong.

Ken

quote:

I only wish there was a way of contributing to the authors of such awesome scenarios

quote:

ORIGINAL: apache85



Hi Ken,

First things first, sorry for the tone of the post you're referring to. I wrote that over two years ago and didn't even recognise it as my own initially; the brusque tone is not how I generally like to come accross and doesn't help to solve any of the issues you've described. Thinking back to that time frame I think I know what caused me to be a little testy around that time, but it's certainly nothing that should be taken out on forum users.

To get you going with rebuilding multiple scenarios, I've put together a step by step walkthrough.

1. Create an XML file listing the scenario files you'd like to update along with their .ini files using the example on page 81 of the manual (or the file included with this post)

quote:


2. Save the XML file in an easy-to-remember spot, like your Scenarios folder or the Desktop
3. Open Command
4. Click the 'Load Existing Scenario' button under the Scenario Editor heading and select one of the scenarios you'd like to upgrade (doesn't really matter which).
5. Once the scenario is loaded, click Editor > Database > Upgrade scenario to latest DB version -- as an aside, the presence of the 'Editor' menu item is a quick way to see whether you're in the scenario editor or not.
6. In the dialog that opens, click the button Deep-Rebuild All Scenarios In List
7. A file selection box will open; navigate to the XML file list you created earlier. Select the XML file and click 'Open'.
8. The DB rebuild will commence, and when it is finished you will be notified with the message "Rebuilding done! Please check 'D:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Command Modern Air Naval Operations\GameMenu_CMANO\..\Logs\SBR log file.txt' for errors." Your file path will probably be different, as I keep my Steam games on a separate drive.

If you are getting errors saying "No XML Data Detected", check that there are no typos in the XML file list. Scripted processes are very 'delicate' when it comes to typos, a single misplaced space, comma, or other character can throw off the script.

If you are getting other errors, check the SBR file log. The path for this is ...\Command Modern Air Naval Operations\Logs\SBR log file.txt. Scroll to the bottom of the log and read the error text. That should give an indication of what is going wrong.

Once complete, check the file log (as described above) to ensure there were no errors.

The time taken for the process to complete is dependent on the number and complexity of the scenarios you want to rebuild. All of Chains of War took my computer about 6 minutes to churn through, so an older computer or a larger chunk of files will take longer accordingly.

Since I stepped through this and made the updated files for Chains of War as an example, I've attached them to this post so that you or anyone else can simply have the update without having to step through the above instructions.

We're currently looking at rewriting portions of the manual, and I'll pass your comments here along to the team so we can make this clearer going forward. I hope this helps

quote:

ORIGINAL: apache85

Yes you would need to copy and paste the relevant code and change the filenames and paths to suit, just like the example file I provided.

This would probably mean about an hour sitting in front of the computer to list all the scenarios you have. If I were to do the task I'd probably use an Excel spreadsheet along with the concatenate functions to produce the XML code and then paste it in, it would still be a lot of data entry though unless you were to do some scripting which again would also be a bit of work. In so many words, doing a 'big job' like updating two hundred .scen files will take a fair amount of work.

Probably a less time intensive way to do this would be to just do them individually as you want to play a scenario. To update an individual scenario is a very quick and easy procedure, while as you've mentioned for someone who is not well versed in the process updating all scenarios could be a lengthy process.

I suppose it's worth weighing up whether you want to spend the time to update every single scenario at once and potentially not play a lot of them (in my case I really only play a few scenarios out of the two hundred or so that reside on my computer) or simply update a scenario before playing. It's probably roughly the same time investment to do this for every single scenario, however it's spread out over multiple sessions (and doesn't require tinkering with XML files).