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TOAW combat under the hood

 
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TOAW combat under the hood - 4/27/2017 6:02:13 AM   
ChuckBerger

 

Posts: 278
Joined: 8/10/2006
Status: offline 		Some time ago (like maybe 10-15 years ago), I recall reading a critique of TOAW, which has had me steer clear of the series ever since.

I can't find the article online anywhere, but the gist of it was that TOAW only pretends to model lots of different kinds of equipment, but in reality the different ratings on different pieces of equipment don't matter as they should.

The author of the piece had done some tests, one of which involved lining up a unit with 50 Tiger tanks against a unit with 300 jeeps, or something like that. The jeeps won, because their combat value (though individually lower than a Tiger) when added all up was stronger than the Tiger unit.

I don't know the TOAW system in any detail, but the criticism was that the game appeared to have specific differentiated values for different kinds of equipment, but in reality the numbers were just added up and reduced to a combat ratio for resolution. In other words, 50 tigers was exactly equivalent to 100 Panzer IVs or 300 jeeps, or whatever - there is no actual modelling of the effectiveness of different weapons systems against one another.

I'll probably get TOAWIV anyway, but I'm curious as to what actually happens under the hood of TOAW combats. It is highly abstracted? Do different weapons platforms fire against one another (a la Decisive Campaigns), or is it an abstract CRT?

Many thanks for any info!
Post #: 1
RE: TOAW combat under the hood - 4/27/2017 6:26:54 AM   
josant

 

Posts: 538
Joined: 3/14/2007
From: Spain
Status: offline 		This was a problem of the original TOAW I,that was fixed in the next versions of the game, now (since toaw II) to defeat a tank or armor unit, the weapon first must hit in the tank and then must defeat the amor of the tank.
In the example of the Jeep: Jeep have 2 AT and Tiger have 10 armor, is practicaly impossible to defeat the armor, this was explained deeply in the last pages of the manual with formulas

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(in reply to ChuckBerger)
Post #: 2
RE: TOAW combat under the hood - 4/27/2017 6:57:42 AM   
ChuckBerger

 

Posts: 278
Joined: 8/10/2006
Status: offline 		OK, thanks. So in TOAW currently, combat is resolved by different weapons systems taking specific shots at enemy systems?

(in reply to josant)
Post #: 3
RE: TOAW combat under the hood - 4/27/2017 8:09:50 AM   
josant

 

Posts: 538
Joined: 3/14/2007
From: Spain
Status: offline 		Yes, the antitank combat is treated as individual weapons firing at individual targets

(in reply to ChuckBerger)
Post #: 4
RE: TOAW combat under the hood - 4/27/2017 10:52:36 AM   
fiambre

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 4/7/2017
Status: offline 		I remember that article :)

The author was surprised of the result of the jeeps victorious against the tigers, but much more about the jeeps not losing a single unit :)

The good Old times...

(in reply to josant)
Post #: 5
RE: TOAW combat under the hood - 4/29/2017 5:31:38 AM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		Remember the article and Norm's answer. For the record, have a look here:
http://www.normkoger.com/truth.html

(in reply to fiambre)
Post #: 6
RE: TOAW combat under the hood - 4/29/2017 12:23:33 PM   
Lobster


Posts: 5104
Joined: 8/8/2013
From: Third rock from the Sun.
Status: offline 		I find it quite amusing that TOAW I might be used to consider buying TOAW IV. As though nothing had changed in the game.

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Post #: 7
RE: TOAW combat under the hood - 4/29/2017 7:10:57 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		This is funny. It remember me an old debate regarding TOAW 1. Some people were complaining it is lacking a CRT table to predict battle results. And that the results were too random. I am pretty happy with TOAW and I have never quit this game series.

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 8
RE: TOAW combat under the hood - 6/5/2017 4:23:39 AM   
Richrd

 

Posts: 340
Joined: 6/22/2002
Status: offline 		I remember that dispute. At about the same time I made a test scenario with a Grossdeutshland PzGr division and a Russian rifle division supported by an independent tank regiment that was still equipped with BT 7s. The BTs kicked butt. I thought; Uh, oh.

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Post #: 9
RE: TOAW combat under the hood - 6/19/2017 11:48:53 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e
Remember the article and Norm's answer. For the record, have a look here:
http://www.normkoger.com/truth.html


I remember reading all that back when I was playing a lot of TOAW WOTY. Good stuff.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 10
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