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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 4:21:02 PM

Alpha77

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The Eagle 2011: I have seen that one it was decent, but not much with romans/legions fighting etc. But watchable movie.

Centurion 2010, pulling the pics from it up, YES I have seen this one too. It is not a historic or war movie tho, I would say a mix from action with bit of phantasy yes, a historic background too. I remember this queen here from some tribe who caught the romans:

See "the eagle" is the best form the 3...but still not historic, more tipps`?

@ Warspite, Green..```ah the actress who together with the "actor who shall not be named", ruined Kingdom Of Heaven (which is still good, but could have so much better)

Also can you shed light what the Ferris wheel is doing at Dunkirk, I guess you know your UK military history??

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 5/18/2017 4:45:19 PM >

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 121

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 4:38:58 PM

warspite1

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From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

Talking of Dunkirk, let's not forget the amazing tracking shot from "Atonement":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QijbOCvunfU

WTF they kill the horses...? To not let them fall in German hands or what ? I doubt that a dozen horses would help the Nazi War machine that much. Scumbags.

warspite1

Scumbags? I think that is a tad dramatic. It must be remembered that at that time food and particularly water were running low. In addition medicines and medical facilities for the troops were running out - let alone horses. Casualties were mounting from bombs and shells and no one knew exactly what the outcome would be or in what timescale.

Those men doing the shooting were likely to have been from the cavalry units - and so hardly animal haters. I think looked at in those terms, it is likely that the decision to shoot the horses was compassionate and not deserving of the 'scumbags' comment.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 5/18/2017 4:48:47 PM >

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Post #: 122

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 4:46:29 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Also can you shed light what the Ferris wheel is doing at Dunkirk, I guess you know your UK military history??

warspite1

No idea I'm afraid - I've never heard of one but it seems strange.

_____________________________

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Post #: 123

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 4:50:38 PM

Alpha77

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Also can you shed light what the Ferris wheel is doing at Dunkirk, I guess you know your UK military history??

warspite1

No idea I'm afraid - I've never heard of one but it seems strange.

Is it possible it is there in todays time? Cause I remember I travelled the area (normandy, brittany etc.) and also Dunkerque. IIRC there was a kind of small amusement park there, to which this whell may belong (but I may also confuse it with another town there, I visited at least a dozen or so)

EDIT, yup the Wheel is at HONFLEUR:

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/honfleur-river.html

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 5/18/2017 4:54:12 PM >

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Post #: 124

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 5:00:21 PM

MakeeLearn

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quote:

...what the Ferris wheel is doing at Dunkirk...

Weekend entertainment...

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Post #: 125

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 5:10:59 PM

Alpha77

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Thanks for the reminder this was a good one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PPw7S4IuIg

(must watch again)

Who needs new "movies" anyway. Just noted another thing in the new Dunkirk trailer, the AA guns point to the sea ? Would the German planes not come from the landside ? Also Brens pointing at sea (did they expect a Kriegmarine invasion there?)

Also "soldiers" having fun at a carusell (sp?), well there was still a functioning command structure with lots of officers around, they would not allow that BS around of the "children".. I would have had them all executed and let the horses live instead...(as commanding officer, this is the mighy British army, right they do not put up with fools destryoing morale) and also the "singing" fools at 2:38 if they would not STFU

We can�t hear the enemy coming when you try to emulate a choir at the beach. Also why do they not play a rap song instead, would more suit the young audience this crap is obviously aimed at.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 5/18/2017 5:36:46 PM >

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Post #: 126

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 5:45:17 PM

Alpha77

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AND, even MORE shocking, this TRAILER I reviewed above IS NOT EVEN from the DUNKIRK movie... stupid me.

The movie is called Attonement (must be total crap!) and it is only a scene from this movie named Dunkirk by the uploader

LOOOL

There are only 2 trailers out there this is not one of them.. with all the goofing around etc. (pheeeew, new hope and sorry to the real Dunkirk movie - jury must wait to judge

)

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 5/18/2017 5:51:38 PM >

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Post #: 127

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 6:55:41 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77
Also the acting in Interstellar was "wooden" as if most of them got sleeping pills, alone this comparison with "event hoizon" where actors can act should be quite clear imo.

Naw. I happen to have enjoyed Interstellar and don't feel that the acting was particularly poor. Your opinion is yours and is not 'quite clear' to others with a different opinion. So be it.

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Post #: 128

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 6:58:31 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Thanks for the reminder this was a good one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PPw7S4IuIg

(must watch again) Who needs new "movies" anyway. Just noted another thing in the new Dunkirk trailer, the AA guns point to the sea ? Would the German planes not come from the landside ? Also Brens pointing at sea (did they expect a Kriegmarine invasion there?) Also "soldiers" having fun at a carusell (sp?), well there was still a functioning command structure with lots of officers around, they would not allow that BS around of the "children".. I would have had them all executed and let the horses live instead...(as commanding officer, this is the mighy British army, right they do not put up with fools destryoing morale) and also the "singing" fools at 2:38 if they would not STFU We can�t hear the enemy coming when you try to emulate a choir at the beach. Also why do they not play a rap song instead, would more suit the young audience this crap is obviously aimed at.

Riight....because soldiers in 'dire straits' have never ever once taken to alcohol or group song to commiserate. By jove, I think that's the first time I've ever seen such 'crap'. Soldiers are always to be shaved, in parade dress uniform and click their heels at any order from any officer anywhere. Yawohl Hauptmann!

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Post #: 129

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 7:07:56 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

quote:

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

Talking of Dunkirk, let's not forget the amazing tracking shot from "Atonement":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QijbOCvunfU

WTF they kill the horses...? To not let them fall in German hands or what ? I doubt that a dozen horses would help the Nazi War machine that much. Scumbags.

warspite1

Scumbags? I think that is a tad dramatic. It must be remembered that at that time food and particularly water were running low. In addition medicines and medical facilities for the troops were running out - let alone horses. Casualties were mounting from bombs and shells and no one knew exactly what the outcome would be or in what timescale.

Those men doing the shooting were likely to have been from the cavalry units - and so hardly animal haters. I think looked at in those terms, it is likely that the decision to shoot the horses was compassionate and not deserving of the 'scumbags' comment.

Hear hear.

It was commonplace to alleviate suffering of animals injured on the battlefield that couldn't be cared for properly. It was also commonplace to destroy said animals in order to deprive the enemy of them. There is a technique that is (still) taught to localize the gunshot in order to achieve an immediate and painless death.

If our fine Westfalen comrade is looking to shoot anyone, he can start with the German military that routinely used, abused and squandered the lives of some 2.75 million horses in the Second World War. Very frequently these animals would be worked to death and die at their 'post'.

Most of these animals were captured stock from other 'liberated' countries. So, yes, the use of horses was a vital cog in the German military machine that justified denying said animals from the battlefield spoils.

Armies commonly spiked their guns, rendered footstuffs inedible, destroyed communications and codes and disabled or destroyed vehicles subject to capture. This depiction was a logical, but sad, extension of those policies.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 7:43:02 PM

Panther Bait

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I believe for all the talk of the mighty German armored/mechanized divisions, that they were largest users of horse-drawn equipment/transports in WW2. The UK highly mechanized/motorized before the war, and the US was as well. The Russians less so, but I think still more than the Germans (one of the top lend-lease items to the Soviets was trucks IIRC). The Japanese probably had the least mechanization, but I don't think they had a lot of horses either. They designed a lot of their equipment to be man-portable (probably often by non-soldiers).

Mike

P.S. When I say highly mechanized/motorized, I don't mean to say everyone rode instead of walked. I am really talking about the use of horse transport vs. motorized/mechanized transport where it was necessary (heavy weapon platoons, artillery/ATGs, etc.). I fully understand that most infantry troops, at least outside the armored/mech divisions, walked into battle.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 8:31:15 PM

Skyros

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Alpha77 is this more to your liking?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrQpjToEgxk

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Post #: 132

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 9:31:27 PM

Alpha77

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

Alpha77 is this more to your liking?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrQpjToEgxk

YUP, I need to watch the series again,thanks for reminder.

and also thanks to Chicken that he remembers the poor eastern front horses :( One of the few who do (of all sides).. and the thousands at Waterloo, Austerlitz, Gettysburgh, Manassas, Crimea war etc. etc

Pantherbait, you are correct the mechanized german army is mostly a myth.

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 5/18/2017 9:34:08 PM >

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Post #: 133

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/18/2017 10:34:37 PM

MakeeLearn

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Roman Red...

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< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 5/18/2017 10:59:44 PM >

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Post #: 134

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 5/19/2017 5:40:24 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

I believe for all the talk of the mighty German armored/mechanized divisions, that they were largest users of horse-drawn equipment/transports in WW2. The UK highly mechanized/motorized before the war, and the US was as well. The Russians less so, but I think still more than the Germans (one of the top lend-lease items to the Soviets was trucks IIRC). The Japanese probably had the least mechanization, but I don't think they had a lot of horses either. They designed a lot of their equipment to be man-portable (probably often by non-soldiers).

Mike

P.S. When I say highly mechanized/motorized, I don't mean to say everyone rode instead of walked. I am really talking about the use of horse transport vs. motorized/mechanized transport where it was necessary (heavy weapon platoons, artillery/ATGs, etc.). I fully understand that most infantry troops, at least outside the armored/mech divisions, walked into battle.

warspite1

The problem was realised before the war, but in Hitler's mad rush to take over Europe there was not the time or the resources to fix the problem. Fact was in 1935 there was 1 vehicle for every 65 Germans, and on the outbreak of war that had only increased to 1 in 47. In Britain those numbers were 1 in 23 and 1 in 14 and even higher in France. For the US it was 1 in 5 and 1 in 3.

Why was this a problem? Well the fewer cars per populace, the fewer drivers, the fewer mechanics, the fewer factories and assembly lines, spare parts and workshops. The factories needed to pump out the motor vehicles required by the army took time to build up and so did all the ancillary items that were needed to go with them. And of course there was the added complication that the air force and the navy were also competing for the limited resources.

Oberst Adolf von Schell was made Plenipotentiary for Motor Vehicles and he spent time in Detroit seeing how Ford worked and what Germany needed if they were to bring the army into the 20th Century. The German motor industry had too many companies making too many different types of vehicle with the result that the precious few resources to go round were not being used to best effect. Outside of the panzer and motorised divisions an over reliance upon horses was the result.

Figures from James Holland War In The West

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 5/19/2017 6:10:23 AM >

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Post #: 135

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/6/2017 2:34:18 PM

Macclan5

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Bump : Dunkirk

Very old thread... however went to see a movie Saturday Night (date night with my spouse).

Have not actually been to a movie in theater for a very long time. With 3 kids now all Teenagers and Yong adults - they go - I don't. I think the last movie I actually saw was either a Harry Potter or Avengers 1.

Love this new "adult - VIP - lisc " thing even if its $25 CAD a ticket.

(They serve beer in theater ! They bring it too you !The chairs are leather recliners ! )

Back to the Trailer : Dunkirk.

Saw the trailer on this big screen.

Very very sound looking CGI and or cinematography.

The Hurricanes looked fantastic. The Bf 109s equally fantastic.

Bomb blasts are bomb blasts.... however the battle scene looked "less purposely grizzly" than ...for example Saving Private Ryan.

I really look forward to this flick and in fact may shell out the coin to see it in theater and not wait for DVD / Netflix as I mostly do.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/6/2017 3:01:49 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

Bump : Dunkirk

Very old thread... however went to see a movie Saturday Night (date night with my spouse).

Have not actually been to a movie in theater for a very long time. With 3 kids now all Teenagers and Yong adults - they go - I don't. I think the last movie I actually saw was either a Harry Potter or Avengers 1.

Love this new "adult - VIP - lisc " thing even if its $25 CAD a ticket.

(They serve beer in theater ! They bring it too you !The chairs are leather recliners ! )

Back to the Trailer : Dunkirk.

Saw the trailer on this big screen.

Very very sound looking CGI and or cinematography.

The Hurricanes looked fantastic. The Bf 109s equally fantastic.

Bomb blasts are bomb blasts.... however the battle scene looked "less purposely grizzly" than ...for example Saving Private Ryan.

I really look forward to this flick and in fact may shell out the coin to see it in theater and not wait for DVD / Netflix as I mostly do.

Hollywood-style explosions are that every little firecracker is enhanced with 100 gallons of gasoline or something. Were the special effects explosions like that or did they seem realistic?

What is this "adult - VIP - lisc" that you mention? I am also no longer a big movie theater-goer.

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/6/2017 3:35:32 PM

Kull

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

I believe for all the talk of the mighty German armored/mechanized divisions, that they were largest users of horse-drawn equipment/transports in WW2.

Webster agrees (a classic scene from Band of Brothers):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_DnRn9hyFU

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RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/6/2017 4:58:30 PM

Macclan5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Hollywood-style explosions are that every little firecracker is enhanced with 100 gallons of gasoline or something. Were the special effects explosions like that or did they seem realistic?

What is this "adult - VIP - lisc" that you mention? I am also no longer a big movie theater-goer.

1) No evident Hollywood explosions in the trailer.

Very realistic looking mortar rounds on the beaches. Puff and crack as opposed to soldiers flying in the air a dozen feet from the concussion.

The ship bombs seemed perhaps a bit Hollywood; but is was a flash of a second only.. so no context.

2) The modern day theater

.

I had no idea either.

In Toronto Canada (in my area at least) .. a typical flick ticket is approx $12 CAD depending on 3D , bargain Wednesdays, and other such considerations (points cards, coupons).

In this newer venue I paid $25 CAD for a "age of majority - licensed to sell liquor" theater. Segregated from the other theaters you walk through a lounge offering chicken wings, nacho plates, and more than candy and popcorn foods.

Further there are waiters with an obligatory IPAD that serve you at your seat before the actual feature film starts. Order - pay with Credit Card or Bank Debit card and have it delivered to you. The seats are largish padded leather recliners - or "Lazy Boys" to use a term most North Americans are familiar with.

Saturday Night: Wonder Women, 2 Pints Keith's India Pale Ale, Quesedea. Cost $25, $7, $7, $10. Experience Priceless.

Sort of $50 all in taxes included.

I wouldn't pay this amount all the time - but for an adult date night with my spouse - far better than $120 plus tip for an indifferent meal at a non-descript restaurant worth about an hour and a half of time while they try to rush me out for the next patrons.

< Message edited by Macclan5 -- 6/6/2017 5:02:19 PM >

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Post #: 139

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/6/2017 4:59:38 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
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From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Macclan5

Bump : Dunkirk

Very old thread... however went to see a movie Saturday Night (date night with my spouse).

Have not actually been to a movie in theater for a very long time. With 3 kids now all Teenagers and Yong adults - they go - I don't. I think the last movie I actually saw was either a Harry Potter or Avengers 1.

Love this new "adult - VIP - lisc " thing even if its $25 CAD a ticket.

(They serve beer in theater ! They bring it too you !The chairs are leather recliners ! )

Back to the Trailer : Dunkirk.

Saw the trailer on this big screen.

Very very sound looking CGI and or cinematography.

The Hurricanes looked fantastic. The Bf 109s equally fantastic.

Bomb blasts are bomb blasts.... however the battle scene looked "less purposely grizzly" than ...for example Saving Private Ryan.

I really look forward to this flick and in fact may shell out the coin to see it in theater and not wait for DVD / Netflix as I mostly do.

Hollywood-style explosions are that every little firecracker is enhanced with 100 gallons of gasoline or something. Were the special effects explosions like that or did they seem realistic?

What is this "adult - VIP - lisc" that you mention? I am also no longer a big movie theater-goer.

VIP theatres - adults only AFAIK - lisc probably means licensed to serve alcohol. Meant to attract people who don't want to have a restaurant date.

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Post #: 140

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/6/2017 5:03:08 PM

Macclan5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

VIP theatres - adults only AFAIK - lisc probably means licensed to serve alcohol. Meant to attract people who don't want to have a restaurant date.

Whoa - talk about insightful !

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Post #: 141

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/6/2017 5:58:19 PM

witpqs

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Thanks, guys. There are two movie theaters nearby. One is fairly new and modern. The other closed down about 8 or 9 years ago then reopened a couple of years back after extensive renovation into a VIP sort of deal. I haven't been there yet but I've only heard about luxurious seating and so on. The adult focus would make sense for them.

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Post #: 142

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/7/2017 7:58:45 AM

JeffroK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

It's not widely-known but the man who was in command of the Dunkirk evacuation, Admiral Ramsay, was also in command for operation Neptune. sadly he was killed in a plane crash in 1944

Interesting. Is that the role played by Kenneth Branaugh in the trailers?

warspite1

Ramsay, as Vice-Admiral Dover, wouldn't have been at Dunkirk, he was orchestrating the operation from Dover.

I assume that Branagh is William Tennant (he of HMS Repulse - Force Z fame) or a similar character. Tennant directed evacuation operations from the beaches as Senior Naval Officer Dunkirk.

In the 1958 movie, the room where Ramsay runs the operation from is the actual room used IRL.
This rates as one of the best war movies made, with a few small mistakes the equipment used is from the right period (prolly still first line gear fro the British Army at that point), despite a few chances for "German atrocities, ie wounded left behind, this doesnt happen. I would assume that the British Army provided troops for the beach scenes, it really looks like there are thousands on the beach.

As for the BoB movie, they couldnt make it better now. Not mentioned is the closing "credits" listing the Nationalities of the Allied pilots who died, truly the Empire defending the United Kingdom.

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Post #: 143

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/7/2017 10:06:26 AM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
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From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

I believe for all the talk of the mighty German armored/mechanized divisions, that they were largest users of horse-drawn equipment/transports in WW2. The UK highly mechanized/motorized before the war, and the US was as well. The Russians less so, but I think still more than the Germans (one of the top lend-lease items to the Soviets was trucks IIRC). The Japanese probably had the least mechanization, but I don't think they had a lot of horses either. They designed a lot of their equipment to be man-portable (probably often by non-soldiers).

Mike

P.S. When I say highly mechanized/motorized, I don't mean to say everyone rode instead of walked. I am really talking about the use of horse transport vs. motorized/mechanized transport where it was necessary (heavy weapon platoons, artillery/ATGs, etc.). I fully understand that most infantry troops, at least outside the armored/mech divisions, walked into battle.

warspite1

The problem was realised before the war, but in Hitler's mad rush to take over Europe there was not the time or the resources to fix the problem. Fact was in 1935 there was 1 vehicle for every 65 Germans, and on the outbreak of war that had only increased to 1 in 47. In Britain those numbers were 1 in 23 and 1 in 14 and even higher in France. For the US it was 1 in 5 and 1 in 3.

Why was this a problem? Well the fewer cars per populace, the fewer drivers, the fewer mechanics, the fewer factories and assembly lines, spare parts and workshops. The factories needed to pump out the motor vehicles required by the army took time to build up and so did all the ancillary items that were needed to go with them. And of course there was the added complication that the air force and the navy were also competing for the limited resources.

Oberst Adolf von Schell was made Plenipotentiary for Motor Vehicles and he spent time in Detroit seeing how Ford worked and what Germany needed if they were to bring the army into the 20th Century. The German motor industry had too many companies making too many different types of vehicle with the result that the precious few resources to go round were not being used to best effect. Outside of the panzer and motorised divisions an over reliance upon horses was the result.

Figures from James Holland War In The West

Also also let us not forget the German usage of numerous foreign trucks (French, Czech etc.) that were also used until they broke down due to overuse and lack of spare parts and maintenance...

Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 144

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/7/2017 4:18:13 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

It's not widely-known but the man who was in command of the Dunkirk evacuation, Admiral Ramsay, was also in command for operation Neptune. sadly he was killed in a plane crash in 1944

Interesting. Is that the role played by Kenneth Branaugh in the trailers?

warspite1

Ramsay, as Vice-Admiral Dover, wouldn't have been at Dunkirk, he was orchestrating the operation from Dover.

I assume that Branagh is William Tennant (he of HMS Repulse - Force Z fame) or a similar character. Tennant directed evacuation operations from the beaches as Senior Naval Officer Dunkirk.

In the 1958 movie, the room where Ramsay runs the operation from is the actual room used IRL.
This rates as one of the best war movies made, with a few small mistakes the equipment used is from the right period (prolly still first line gear fro the British Army at that point), despite a few chances for "German atrocities, ie wounded left behind, this doesnt happen. I would assume that the British Army provided troops for the beach scenes, it really looks like there are thousands on the beach.

As for the BoB movie, they couldnt make it better now. Not mentioned is the closing "credits" listing the Nationalities of the Allied pilots who died, truly the Empire defending the United Kingdom.

warspite1

Not to forget the other nationalities, of which the Polish and Czech contribution stands out.

The end credits for the Battle of Britain contains as fine piece of music as you will find anywhere in cinema history. Kleenex at the ready....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLDZkypBHnw

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to JeffroK)

Post #: 145

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/7/2017 4:26:32 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther Bait

I believe for all the talk of the mighty German armored/mechanized divisions, that they were largest users of horse-drawn equipment/transports in WW2. The UK highly mechanized/motorized before the war, and the US was as well. The Russians less so, but I think still more than the Germans (one of the top lend-lease items to the Soviets was trucks IIRC). The Japanese probably had the least mechanization, but I don't think they had a lot of horses either. They designed a lot of their equipment to be man-portable (probably often by non-soldiers).

Mike

P.S. When I say highly mechanized/motorized, I don't mean to say everyone rode instead of walked. I am really talking about the use of horse transport vs. motorized/mechanized transport where it was necessary (heavy weapon platoons, artillery/ATGs, etc.). I fully understand that most infantry troops, at least outside the armored/mech divisions, walked into battle.

warspite1

The problem was realised before the war, but in Hitler's mad rush to take over Europe there was not the time or the resources to fix the problem. Fact was in 1935 there was 1 vehicle for every 65 Germans, and on the outbreak of war that had only increased to 1 in 47. In Britain those numbers were 1 in 23 and 1 in 14 and even higher in France. For the US it was 1 in 5 and 1 in 3.

Why was this a problem? Well the fewer cars per populace, the fewer drivers, the fewer mechanics, the fewer factories and assembly lines, spare parts and workshops. The factories needed to pump out the motor vehicles required by the army took time to build up and so did all the ancillary items that were needed to go with them. And of course there was the added complication that the air force and the navy were also competing for the limited resources.

Oberst Adolf von Schell was made Plenipotentiary for Motor Vehicles and he spent time in Detroit seeing how Ford worked and what Germany needed if they were to bring the army into the 20th Century. The German motor industry had too many companies making too many different types of vehicle with the result that the precious few resources to go round were not being used to best effect. Outside of the panzer and motorised divisions an over reliance upon horses was the result.

Figures from James Holland War In The West

Also also let us not forget the German usage of numerous foreign trucks (French, Czech etc.) that were also used until they broke down due to overuse and lack of spare parts and maintenance...

Leo "Apollo11"

warspite1

....and the tanks too. How many divisions relied upon Czech tanks? and French tanks were also used (although I don't know if the latter equipped panzer divisions.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 146

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/7/2017 5:07:16 PM

Skyros

Posts: 1570
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

It's not widely-known but the man who was in command of the Dunkirk evacuation, Admiral Ramsay, was also in command for operation Neptune. sadly he was killed in a plane crash in 1944

Interesting. Is that the role played by Kenneth Branaugh in the trailers?

warspite1

Ramsay, as Vice-Admiral Dover, wouldn't have been at Dunkirk, he was orchestrating the operation from Dover.

I assume that Branagh is William Tennant (he of HMS Repulse - Force Z fame) or a similar character. Tennant directed evacuation operations from the beaches as Senior Naval Officer Dunkirk.

In the 1958 movie, the room where Ramsay runs the operation from is the actual room used IRL.
This rates as one of the best war movies made, with a few small mistakes the equipment used is from the right period (prolly still first line gear fro the British Army at that point), despite a few chances for "German atrocities, ie wounded left behind, this doesnt happen. I would assume that the British Army provided troops for the beach scenes, it really looks like there are thousands on the beach.

As for the BoB movie, they couldnt make it better now. Not mentioned is the closing "credits" listing the Nationalities of the Allied pilots who died, truly the Empire defending the United Kingdom.

warspite1

Not to forget the other nationalities, of which the Polish and Czech contribution stands out.

The end credits for the Battle of Britain contains as fine piece of music as you will find anywhere in cinema history. Kleenex at the ready....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLDZkypBHnw

Repeat Please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1pplBZu0oU

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 147

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/7/2017 6:13:16 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

It's not widely-known but the man who was in command of the Dunkirk evacuation, Admiral Ramsay, was also in command for operation Neptune. sadly he was killed in a plane crash in 1944

Interesting. Is that the role played by Kenneth Branaugh in the trailers?

warspite1

Ramsay, as Vice-Admiral Dover, wouldn't have been at Dunkirk, he was orchestrating the operation from Dover.

I assume that Branagh is William Tennant (he of HMS Repulse - Force Z fame) or a similar character. Tennant directed evacuation operations from the beaches as Senior Naval Officer Dunkirk.

In the 1958 movie, the room where Ramsay runs the operation from is the actual room used IRL.
This rates as one of the best war movies made, with a few small mistakes the equipment used is from the right period (prolly still first line gear fro the British Army at that point), despite a few chances for "German atrocities, ie wounded left behind, this doesnt happen. I would assume that the British Army provided troops for the beach scenes, it really looks like there are thousands on the beach.

As for the BoB movie, they couldnt make it better now. Not mentioned is the closing "credits" listing the Nationalities of the Allied pilots who died, truly the Empire defending the United Kingdom.

warspite1

Not to forget the other nationalities, of which the Polish and Czech contribution stands out.

The end credits for the Battle of Britain contains as fine piece of music as you will find anywhere in cinema history. Kleenex at the ready....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLDZkypBHnw

Repeat Please.

warspite1

Sure.

Not to forget the other nationalities, of which the Polish and Czech contribution stands out.

The end credits for the Battle of Britain contains as fine piece of music as you will find anywhere in cinema history. Kleenex at the ready....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLDZkypBHnw

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

(in reply to Skyros)

Post #: 148

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/7/2017 7:12:52 PM

Skyros

Posts: 1570
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

It's not widely-known but the man who was in command of the Dunkirk evacuation, Admiral Ramsay, was also in command for operation Neptune. sadly he was killed in a plane crash in 1944

Interesting. Is that the role played by Kenneth Branaugh in the trailers?

warspite1

Ramsay, as Vice-Admiral Dover, wouldn't have been at Dunkirk, he was orchestrating the operation from Dover.

I assume that Branagh is William Tennant (he of HMS Repulse - Force Z fame) or a similar character. Tennant directed evacuation operations from the beaches as Senior Naval Officer Dunkirk.

In the 1958 movie, the room where Ramsay runs the operation from is the actual room used IRL.
This rates as one of the best war movies made, with a few small mistakes the equipment used is from the right period (prolly still first line gear fro the British Army at that point), despite a few chances for "German atrocities, ie wounded left behind, this doesnt happen. I would assume that the British Army provided troops for the beach scenes, it really looks like there are thousands on the beach.

As for the BoB movie, they couldnt make it better now. Not mentioned is the closing "credits" listing the Nationalities of the Allied pilots who died, truly the Empire defending the United Kingdom.

warspite1

Not to forget the other nationalities, of which the Polish and Czech contribution stands out.

The end credits for the Battle of Britain contains as fine piece of music as you will find anywhere in cinema history. Kleenex at the ready....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLDZkypBHnw

Repeat Please.

warspite1

Sure.

Not to forget the other nationalities, of which the Polish and Czech contribution stands out.

The end credits for the Battle of Britain contains as fine piece of music as you will find anywhere in cinema history. Kleenex at the ready....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLDZkypBHnw

To quote the squadron leader: "Silence in Polish"

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 149

RE: OT: Dunkirk the Movie! - 6/7/2017 7:34:11 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

warspite1

Not to forget the other nationalities, of which the Polish and Czech contribution stands out.

To me, the nationality that most stands out is the Australian contingent. 21 participants with 14 fatalities? That's a pretty high ratio. Vagaries of war, training, unit issues, being outnumbered, what?