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Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 5:29:23 PM   
verdugo94

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 4/23/2015
Status: offline 		Hello guys,

I have taken Rangoon on my pbem game, after a week of fights and a month of bombing daily the city it was mine last turn. I was happy till I saw the damage to itīs industry, everything(resources, refineries and LI) except manpower was down to 0. I donīt know if that kind of things happen sometimes or if itīs a bug because the odds were high( 8 to 1) as it is stated in the tech support or just bad luck.

The fact is that I have and I will have a problem with the supply in the region because nothing is producing it right now. I have making numbers and if I am not wrong repairing each industry point cost 1000 supply, so repairing for example the LI itīs only worthy if I hold the city for more than 1040 days! and of course I will have to send tfīs with resources from Singapur.

Apart from that another problem will be the fuel, Magwe produces oil and fuel but I wont think that the fuel is enough to operate in the region and send some to mainland.

I am a bit dissapointed with my bad luck on this because I was counting with Rangoon fairly intact, I moved the 3Air Division and bombard it to have the engineers supressed but this is a disaster..

I would need some advice abouth what to do if possible.

Thanks you very much.
Post #: 1
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 5:44:53 PM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: verdugo94

Hello guys,

I have taken Rangoon on my pbem game, after a week of fights and a month of bombing daily the city it was mine last turn. I was happy till I saw the damage to itīs industry, everything(resources, refineries and LI) except manpower was down to 0. I donīt know if that kind of things happen sometimes or if itīs a bug because the odds were high( 8 to 1) as it is stated in the tech support or just bad luck.

The fact is that I have and I will have a problem with the supply in the region because nothing is producing it right now. I have making numbers and if I am not wrong repairing each industry point cost 1000 supply, so repairing for example the LI itīs only worthy if I hold the city for more than 1040 days! and of course I will have to send tfīs with resources from Singapur.

Apart from that another problem will be the fuel, Magwe produces oil and fuel but I wont think that the fuel is enough to operate in the region and send some to mainland.

I am a bit dissapointed with my bad luck on this because I was counting with Rangoon fairly intact, I moved the 3Air Division and bombard it to have the engineers supressed but this is a disaster..

I would need some advice abouth what to do if possible.

Thanks you very much.



I am curious, how many engineers were present and how many were "disabled" and "destroyed" either by air or in the battle? I have long wondered if disabled engineers squads add to the probability of infrastructure destruction upon base capture.

As to repairing the base, I would not bother repairing anything. You may be in Rangoon for only a year, and that is a hefty cost to have a little supply generation closer to the front. If you need more refineries, you are probably better off repairing those at Miri, because it will be in your hands longer than Rangoon in most games.

(in reply to verdugo94)
Post #: 2
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 6:11:46 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		After retaking Rangoon all you have to do to supply the entire theater is ship in massive quantities of supply from the East Coast via Cape Town.

No brainer.

ps. in the future you might want to clarify which side you are playing when seeking help.

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Post #: 3
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 6:16:47 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

After retaking Rangoon all you have to do to supply the entire theater is ship in massive quantities of supply from the East Coast via Cape Town.

No brainer.

ps. in the future you might want to clarify which side you are playing when seeking help.


He's playing me. He's pretty new, and English is not his first language. I know this event at Rangoon, plus our storm of synch bugs, has been a pain for him.

He's Japan.

I think I had a Burma Division, about 70% intact, two British base forces about the same, and an arty unit. I have not seen the replay of the loss of Rangoon (reinstalling due to synchs), but he tells me it was 8-1 odds. I think I had Forts 2. Not sure, but I think a deliberate, not shock, attack.

I've never seen the degree of destruction he describes in a base loss. The loss of all Resources is particularly odd to me.

Edit: I just ran the replay under a reinstalled AE instance. No apparent synch bugs.

I was incorrect. There were three RAF base forces and no arty. 1st Burma Division. Initial AV of Burma Div. was 180. AV of all BFs was zero. Odds ended at 8-1. Adjusted AVs ended at 1980 Japan and 245 Allied. Forts reduced from 2 to 1 before attack. Base fell. All four Allied LCUs retreated toward Prome.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/8/2017 6:57:36 PM >

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The Moose

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Post #: 4
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 6:42:07 PM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline 		I think that he must be playing Japan if he is sending resources from Singapore and is worried about oil and the refineries.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 5
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 6:45:17 PM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

After retaking Rangoon all you have to do to supply the entire theater is ship in massive quantities of supply from the East Coast via Cape Town.

No brainer.

ps. in the future you might want to clarify which side you are playing when seeking help.


He's playing me. He's pretty new, and English is not his first language. I know this event at Rangoon, plus our storm of synch bugs, has been a pain for him.

He's Japan.

I think I had a Burma Division, about 70% intact, two British base forces about the same, and an arty unit. I have not seen the replay of the loss of Rangoon (reinstalling due to synchs), but he tells me it was 8-1 odds. I think I had Forts 2. Not sure, but I think a deliberate, not shock, attack.

I've never seen the degree of destruction he describes in a base loss. The loss of all Resources is particularly odd to me.


Just curious if the language on his computer display is set to "English" and if a difference in language settings for the Windows display would cause sync bugs. (I don't see how a difference in language settings on the keyboard could cause sync bugs). I have 5 languages installed on my PC and switch between them at times (especially English and Spanish).

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 6
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 6:59:17 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

Just curious if the language on his computer display is set to "English" and if a difference in language settings for the Windows display would cause sync bugs. (I don't see how a difference in language settings on the keyboard could cause sync bugs). I have 5 languages installed on my PC and switch between them at times (especially English and Spanish).



The synch bugs began about five turns ago after everything being fine for five game months. We verified the exact same version. No hardware changes. So we both reinstalled. So far, in the half-turn I've run, it looks OK.

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Post #: 7
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 7:13:59 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline 		So I guess the question is, has anyone seen this level of destruction at a base fall? I never have seen so much across all the types.

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Post #: 8
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 7:14:58 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Yea guys I gleaned which side he is playing and was just being cute.

For a more civil reply: Large battles often result in destroyed installations.

High degree of variability.

Even the supply stockpiles you can capture can vary greatly.

One game I got 800k supply for liberating Shanghai with the Chinese and the next game I got 74k.

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Hans


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Post #: 9
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 7:51:32 PM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline 		How many engineers were present in the 3 BAF base forces and how many were disabled? I have seen this level of destruction in the Ironman scenarios as Japan where the allied AI has a large number of engineers on many bases. I have seen all the Miri oil and refineries destroyed for example. I have also witnessed the same at Soerabaja, if I recall correctly, with everything reduced to 0.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 10
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 8:27:07 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

How many engineers were present in the 3 BAF base forces and how many were disabled? I have seen this level of destruction in the Ironman scenarios as Japan where the allied AI has a large number of engineers on many bases. I have seen all the Miri oil and refineries destroyed for example. I have also witnessed the same at Soerabaja, if I recall correctly, with everything reduced to 0.


I don't have a pre-turn save, but after the retreat from the captured base, total non-disabled engineers in all four LCUs are on the order of six squads, and engineer vehicles about the same. The RAF BFs are pretty small, pre-war types.

I've seen total destruction of Oil at Pbang in an AI game, and I think my Lokasenna game saw Magwe Oil destroyed down to 2. I've just never seen a wipe across all types.

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Post #: 11
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 8:32:55 PM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 9/16/2016
Status: offline 		Sometimes you roll Snake Eyes...

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 12
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 8:47:24 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey

Sometimes you roll Snake Eyes...


That's pretty much what I said to him, but it's a tough beat when you're in your first PBEM.

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Post #: 13
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 10:16:29 PM   
InfiniteMonkey

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 9/16/2016
Status: offline 		Yup. On the other hand, I'd rather see it there than at Palembang, Balikpapan, etc. Burma is a crap shoot as far as resources and oil imo since it rarely makes sense to repair anything. Given how long you expect to be able to harvest from there, 1000 supply per repair isn't likely to get paid back in Burma.

From my perspective, the main reason for taking Burma is to limit supply going to China and buy time for Malaya. The oil and resources are just a bonus. It sucks to get NOTHING from there, but the reason for taking Burma isn't primarily about the resources or oil you gain.


(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 14
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 10:48:40 PM   
PresterJohn001


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/11/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus


quote:

ORIGINAL: verdugo94

Hello guys,

I have taken Rangoon on my pbem game, after a week of fights and a month of bombing daily the city it was mine last turn. I was happy till I saw the damage to itīs industry, everything(resources, refineries and LI) except manpower was down to 0. I donīt know if that kind of things happen sometimes or if itīs a bug because the odds were high( 8 to 1) as it is stated in the tech support or just bad luck.

The fact is that I have and I will have a problem with the supply in the region because nothing is producing it right now. I have making numbers and if I am not wrong repairing each industry point cost 1000 supply, so repairing for example the LI itīs only worthy if I hold the city for more than 1040 days! and of course I will have to send tfīs with resources from Singapur.

Apart from that another problem will be the fuel, Magwe produces oil and fuel but I wont think that the fuel is enough to operate in the region and send some to mainland.

I am a bit dissapointed with my bad luck on this because I was counting with Rangoon fairly intact, I moved the 3Air Division and bombard it to have the engineers supressed but this is a disaster..

I would need some advice abouth what to do if possible.

Thanks you very much.



I am curious, how many engineers were present and how many were "disabled" and "destroyed" either by air or in the battle? I have long wondered if disabled engineers squads add to the probability of infrastructure destruction upon base capture.

As to repairing the base, I would not bother repairing anything. You may be in Rangoon for only a year, and that is a hefty cost to have a little supply generation closer to the front. If you need more refineries, you are probably better off repairing those at Miri, because it will be in your hands longer than Rangoon in most games.


Its bad luck, but not the end by a long stretch. The resources here will not win or lose you the war. As Japan you have to roll with the punches, especially in a first game. Good Luck and give Bullwinkle hell!!

(in reply to Aurorus)
Post #: 15
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/8/2017 10:58:14 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

How many engineers were present in the 3 BAF base forces and how many were disabled? I have seen this level of destruction in the Ironman scenarios as Japan where the allied AI has a large number of engineers on many bases. I have seen all the Miri oil and refineries destroyed for example. I have also witnessed the same at Soerabaja, if I recall correctly, with everything reduced to 0.


I don't have a pre-turn save, but after the retreat from the captured base, total non-disabled engineers in all four LCUs are on the order of six squads, and engineer vehicles about the same. The RAF BFs are pretty small, pre-war types.

I've seen total destruction of Oil at Pbang in an AI game, and I think my Lokasenna game saw Magwe Oil destroyed down to 2. I've just never seen a wipe across all types.

There was a thread recently that discussed the possibility of a bug in the latest version of the game because the "industry reduced to 0" result was happening almost all the time. There are some parts of industry that are supposed to reduce a set amount - Manpower reduces to two if the Allied player captures a base with manpower, and HI is supposed to reduce in half + a random amount damaged dependent on the battle odds and engineers, when either side captures a base. IME, if there is no HI, LI will often reduce in half + random damage. Resources might get damaged but are not supposed to be eliminated.
I'll look on the tech forum for that thread.

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Post #: 16
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 1:42:01 AM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline 		If it is the thread that I think you refer to, it was about the base auto-changing sides. It seems there are some bugs when a base auto-changes.

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Post #: 17
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 1:57:03 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

If it is the thread that I think you refer to, it was about the base auto-changing sides. It seems there are some bugs when a base auto-changes.

That was the one, but it also drifted into what happens when combat takes a base too. Couldn't find it again - it may have been in an AAR.

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Post #: 18
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 2:13:36 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Disaster is that same thing happening in Palembang.

Rangoon industry and resources are of little value. Its refineries, irrelevant

Just remember to set repair to "NO"

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 6/9/2017 2:15:03 AM >

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Post #: 19
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 7:28:02 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Disaster is that same thing happening in Palembang.

Rangoon industry and resources are of little value. Its refineries, irrelevant

Just remember to set repair to "NO"

Don't you need Rangoon refineries to use Magwe's oil to make fuel? Sure beats trying to haul in fuel! Of course this assumes operating ships out of The 'goon ... half the game it's too dangerous for either side.

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Post #: 20
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 12:35:18 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Japan needs oil, not fuel. There is excess refinery capacity in the HI

Of course having a fuel producing Rangoon is great for the fleet, but there are other relatively close places where the fleet can drink instead.

Rangoon is a river port (only ships <15K tons) and therefore cannot accept the bigger ships, hence it cannot be used to operate a main fleet

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 6/9/2017 12:37:52 PM >

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Post #: 21
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 1:30:39 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Japan needs oil, not fuel. There is excess refinery capacity in the HI

Of course having a fuel producing Rangoon is great for the fleet, but there are other relatively close places where the fleet can drink instead.

Rangoon is a river port (only ships <15K tons) and therefore cannot accept the bigger ships, hence it cannot be used to operate a main fleet


We're in stock, so refineries make supply. Rangoon shoves supply up the Irrawaddy Valley, so to me it's valuable for that alone.

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Post #: 22
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 1:58:25 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Yes but it is gone now... what I am saying is that it is not a good idea to repair

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Post #: 23
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 2:58:51 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Yes but it is gone now... what I am saying is that it is not a good idea to repair


I have thoughts on that elsewhere.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 6/9/2017 2:59:00 PM >

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Post #: 24
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 3:41:40 PM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Japan needs oil, not fuel. There is excess refinery capacity in the HI

Of course having a fuel producing Rangoon is great for the fleet, but there are other relatively close places where the fleet can drink instead.

Rangoon is a river port (only ships <15K tons) and therefore cannot accept the bigger ships, hence it cannot be used to operate a main fleet



Who uses a port to refuel large surface ships? That is what oilers are for.

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 25
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 3:50:43 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Well, as Japan, other than during major operations, I don't use the fast oilers to support the fleet: they are simply too busy hauling oil and fuel from the SRA

If I am in need of fuel for operations, I might park small/ slow tankers in a nearby port, but in general I dislike having Japanese fuel efficient tankers "parked" in a port

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 6/9/2017 4:03:19 PM >

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Post #: 26
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 5:04:14 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

So I guess the question is, has anyone seen this level of destruction at a base fall? I never have seen so much across all the types.


Usually when I have seen this level is at a base where fighting took place for many days with a lot of attacks. Also it seems to me (no data to back up this claim) that if you use heavy aerial bombardments the damage to facilities is higher then when you don't.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 27
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 5:17:45 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: verdugo94
after a week of fights and a month of bombing daily the city



This was the cause; I mean the Germans were not expecting to start production in Stalingrad just the day after the fight

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 6/9/2017 5:18:45 PM >

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Post #: 28
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 5:46:52 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Were there naval bombardments running up to taking the base? Basically, it was a bad roll in my eyes but there you have it and will have to live with it. I would not expend resources repairing anything in Burma. The oil at Magwe is generally the first thing I bomb as the Allied player. It certainly makes it a little harder if you want to advance into India but it does not matter that much in the end. More important is the oil in the DEI and the shipyard at Singapore.

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Post #: 29
RE: Disaster at Rangoon- advice needed - 6/9/2017 7:04:26 PM   
Aurorus

 

Posts: 1314
Joined: 5/26/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

Well, as Japan, other than during major operations, I don't use the fast oilers to support the fleet: they are simply too busy hauling oil and fuel from the SRA

If I am in need of fuel for operations, I might park small/ slow tankers in a nearby port, but in general I dislike having Japanese fuel efficient tankers "parked" in a port


Right... exactly... oilers hauling fuel from the DEI directly to the fleet.

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 30
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