Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

The retreating USN burned USS Merrimack to the waterline (the dock was flooded to put out the fire by the shipyard-capturing Confederates), and an argument can be made that the ship was abandoned as salvage at that point.

Me? I always figured it was just newspaper editors' love of alliteration in headlines.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58



Having gone to Virginia public schools in an era where answering "the Civil War" on a history test was marked wrong, and having said public school being a few miles from Hampton Roads where the battle took place, we were steeped in this issue. The retreating USN burned USS Merrimack to the waterline (the dock was flooded to put out the fire by the shipyard-capturing Confederates), and an argument can be made that the ship was abandoned as salvage at that point. But to my knowledge she was never struck from the list either. To your point, and one that drives many Virginians mad, especially recently in the "monument crisis", the Confederacy was never recognized as a nation state by the USA, so having national ships in commission was a non-sequitur. To the victors she always was a United States ship under rebel control, with a lot of unauthorized hoo-haw hung on her main deck.

Me? I always figured it was just newspaper editors' love of alliteration in headlines.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lovejoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

The retreating USN burned USS Merrimack to the waterline (the dock was flooded to put out the fire by the shipyard-capturing Confederates), and an argument can be made that the ship was abandoned as salvage at that point.

Me? I always figured it was just newspaper editors' love of alliteration in headlines.

And possession be 9/10 of the law, particularly when you arm said possession with cannon!

quote:

ORIGINAL: uncivil_servant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58



Having gone to Virginia public schools in an era where answering "the Civil War" on a history test was marked wrong, and having said public school being a few miles from Hampton Roads where the battle took place, we were steeped in this issue. The retreating USN burned USS Merrimack to the waterline (the dock was flooded to put out the fire by the shipyard-capturing Confederates), and an argument can be made that the ship was abandoned as salvage at that point. But to my knowledge she was never struck from the list either. To your point, and one that drives many Virginians mad, especially recently in the "monument crisis", the Confederacy was never recognized as a nation state by the USA, so having national ships in commission was a non-sequitur. To the victors she always was a United States ship under rebel control, with a lot of unauthorized hoo-haw hung on her main deck.

Me? I always figured it was just newspaper editors' love of alliteration in headlines.

Not to be contrarian to keeping the name Merrimack was more of an insult than anything regarding recognizing the Confederacy. In dispatches and letters the Army of Northern Virginia is referred to as such. Never the Militia of the State of Virginia. Richmond was referred to as the capital of the Confederacy, even though it was not a recognized nation. Members of the Confederate Army were recognized by rank, NOT the previous rank issued to them by the US Government. (They referred to Lee as General Lee, not Colonel Lee).

True. But to me more a matter of convenience. Former Confederate officials were seen as having forfeited their citizenship through treason, and only regained it after the war by mandated oaths, and pardons.

I believe the USN referred to Confederate vessels purpose built as "CSS" ships. What else to call them? I suppose. Today they'd be "alleged CSS ships."

Not calling the Virginia the Virginia but instead the name of the hull the Virginia was built from was a backhanded insult from the US Navy.
Further: Ships we captured from the Barbary States (a government we recognized) were renamed after being captured in the conflict and were never referred to as their former names but as their USS Designation.

This had been accepted practice in all navies for centuries. The RN and the French had a mutual lending library of ships all through the Napoleonic period, for example. Had the ironclad survived and been taken by the USN she would have been USS Merrimack in all respects once more. I doubt the ironcladding would have been removed, however.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58



As above, if supply goes to zero you've got bigger problems. I've never seen a base's supply sucked to zero by field LCUs. Not even Chungking in 1942. Maybe the reason is so many bases can contribute, and there aren't any geographies, or many, where there's only one base to draw from. If my field LCUs were pulling so much out that I couldn't defend my main operating base(s), I'd move some LCUs farther away and starve them before I'd lose a major VP base. In that case combat would be so intense that LI production would be #10 on a list of the top five problems to worry about.

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Emmylou vs Ronstadt is close but goes to Emmylou because she is a songwriter as well as a great singer.

Joan over Stevie for the same reason, and because in the early 1970s I went to a concert of her's at Cole Field House at the University of Maryland. At the time she refused to allow the promoters to charge more than $2.50 for a ticket. God bless her.

Emmylou vs Joan is no contest though. I have had a crush on Emmylou ever since I discovered her and Graham Parsons while listening to progressive radio in 1973 during the summer break from Maryland when I worked for the Praise the Lord Decorating Company. That in itself is another tale for another day.

Linda Ronstadt is also a songwriter, and helped the Eagles get their start by letting them record "Desperado". I like the clarity of her voice over the smoky, husky tones of Stevie Nix.

quote:

ORIGINAL: T Rav

I wasn't going to roll-in on this one, but... HansBolter, how is it that you picked Linda, knew the Warren Zevon connection AND have the St Petersburg thing going? Well done! BTW, Warren Zevon is the only musician I've seen in person three times... Amazing to see in person.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

The Andrea Doria, and the Edmund Fitzgerald. Those two shouldn't be linked in my brain, but I don't tell the synapses what to do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

I'd love to see the reaction if the whole Chinese Army started showing movement dots

They dont have to go anywhere, just pretend to.

Do this a couple of times, and then let 1 or 2 advance.

(Plus I'd like to see the Chinese pressure towards Peking and Mongolia to raise the Red Steamroller threat)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

I'd love to see the reaction if the whole Chinese Army started showing movement dots

They dont have to go anywhere, just pretend to.

Do this a couple of times, and then let 1 or 2 advance.

(Plus I'd like to see the Chinese pressure towards Peking and Mongolia to raise the Red Steamroller threat)

Don't know if it matters for CR, but setting a destination would clear their field fortification levels.

Also, no guarantee that John would see the dots.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

I'd love to see the reaction if the whole Chinese Army started showing movement dots

They dont have to go anywhere, just pretend to.

Do this a couple of times, and then let 1 or 2 advance.

(Plus I'd like to see the Chinese pressure towards Peking and Mongolia to raise the Red Steamroller threat)

Don't know if it matters for CR, but setting a destination would clear their field fortification levels.

Also, no guarantee that John would see the dots.

Are you sure that just setting a destination clears the forts? I thought the unit had to leave the hex to lose its forts?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

I'd love to see the reaction if the whole Chinese Army started showing movement dots

They dont have to go anywhere, just pretend to.

Do this a couple of times, and then let 1 or 2 advance.

(Plus I'd like to see the Chinese pressure towards Peking and Mongolia to raise the Red Steamroller threat)

Don't know if it matters for CR, but setting a destination would clear their field fortification levels.

Also, no guarantee that John would see the dots.

Are you sure that just setting a destination clears the forts? I thought the unit had to leave the hex to lose its forts?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I did battle with the unit south of Darwin a few weeks ago. It isn't big, but the Aussie brigade was in the open and battered by enemy bombers, so it pulled back to Katherine.

I'm not sure what you're asking about Soerabaja: carrier division or infantry division?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Headed for CR's wheelhouse now.....

"Iron Dawn...The Monitor, The Merrimack and the Civil War Sea Battle that Changed History" by Richard Snow

I'm now about 2/3 in and it is March 8, 1862 in Hampton Roads. This is my first book on these two ships exclusively. I would recommended it as its been a good balance of supposed first hand accounts of those involved in development of both sides. Interesting to hear some guns are by shell weight (32-pounder) or gun barrel (8 inch).

Any other good books on just the naval side of Civil War??