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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

 
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RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 1:47:25 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Most players want high aggression leaders because they will always fly or attack. They miss the boat...letting the local commander make decisions is often for the best.

You have multiple roles for Subs...from dropping mines, to pickets, to cargo raiding, to fleet support...

Don't forget to change their threat level too...where appropriate. Nothing wrong with using Low threat and a high aggression captain for instance.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10921
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 1:57:48 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Ah, that's helpful! I'll adjust threat tolerance for those subs at sea (until I can replace commanders when the subs return to port to refuel).

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 10922
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 2:12:12 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		Just to clarify – low-aggression commanders wasn’t a suggestion, it was a question. I don’t know the answer or what impact it would/could/might have on late war US Sub survive-ability.

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Post #: 10923
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 2:16:12 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		That's something that Jeff (Lowpe) has discussed at length in some of his AAR writing, so your comment jogged my memory. Jeff has played with settings in various ways, with some good success reported.

(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 10924
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 2:19:37 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline
For sub commanders, a high Naval increases ASW survival.

The low threat option sounds good, will maybe focus them on non warship targets in a convoy.

< Message edited by MakeeLearn -- 6/14/2017 2:23:43 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10925
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 2:24:21 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I've always focused on high Naval and high Aggression ratings. I'm going to switch over to high Naval and low aggression, as much as I can. I'll also switch a goodly number of subs over to a Low threat tolerance. When all that's done, I'll be able to see if it seems to make any difference in Allied sub survivability in hostile waters.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 10926
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 2:30:57 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've always focused on high Naval and high Aggression ratings. I'm going to switch over to high Naval and low aggression, as much as I can. I'll also switch a goodly number of subs over to a Low threat tolerance. When all that's done, I'll be able to see if it seems to make any difference in Allied sub survivability in hostile waters.

The aggression shouldn't be too low. Low sixties/high fifties works but forties would result in few attacks. The term "aggression" doesn't just mean "tendency to attack", it also means "patience level". Aggression in the high seventies will have your impatient sub commanders fire at the first escort they see or surface to use their deck gun when they still have torpedoes left. Mid-level aggression patiently sneaks past the escorts more often to take a shot at bigger fish.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10927
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 3:10:17 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		John just sent this email: "Turn is here.  [I'm] going to run a couple of errands and then I shall jump on the turn.  Figure a couple of hours until you see it."

He sent that at 11 a.m. eastern time. There's no way the turn is going to arrive in a couple of hours. He'll probably send it sometime between 3 p.m. and 5 p.m., with a 40% chance that something will come up so that it won't arrive until after 9 p.m.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 10928
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 3:23:19 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Oh, ye of little faith - and much experience!

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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10929
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 4:00:00 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

John just sent this email: "Turn is here.  [I'm] going to run a couple of errands and then I shall jump on the turn.  Figure a couple of hours until you see it."

He sent that at 11 a.m. eastern time. There's no way the turn is going to arrive in a couple of hours. He'll probably send it sometime between 3 p.m. and 5 p.m., with a 40% chance that something will come up so that it won't arrive until after 9 p.m.


I vote for sometime tomorrow!!

John has exceeded my expectations regarding picking up and continuing this game :]


_____________________________


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Post #: 10930
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 7:02:22 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

(in reply to Mike McCreery)
Post #: 10931
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 8:34:20 PM   
MakeeLearn


Posts: 4278
Joined: 9/11/2016
Status: offline

The motto of all militaries: "HURRY UP AND WAIT!"

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10932
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 8:39:51 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		The turn arrived at 3:28 eastern time.

(in reply to MakeeLearn)
Post #: 10933
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 8:50:32 PM   
AcePylut


Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline 		Well it's 4:50PM Eastern and no posts about the turn yet from you

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10934
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/14/2017 10:05:04 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		That's 'cause I went for a run up Lavender Mountain in Georgia summertime heat and humidity (a few ripe blackberries were the only bright spot). Now I'm preparing a message for church tonight, as our preacher is handling other matters. So it's been a busy afternoon. I'll get back home around 8:30 p.m. eastern, at which time I'll sit down with the turn and see what's up with the evil Japanese.

(in reply to AcePylut)
Post #: 10935
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 7:32:38 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		8/21/44

After church this evening, I joined my family for dinner, sat down to talk for awhile, and the next thing I knew, it was 2 a.m. and I'd gotten in a solid five hours of sleep already. Now it's 3:30 a.m. and I'm wide awake. Time to read, I suppose.

KB: Enemy carrier TFs withdraw from the Miri sector and seemingly vanish into the Java Sea. I'd anticipated an all-out assault on Miri's oil production, so this was a nice surprise.

Peep Show: No enemy fighters over Formosa today, so Allied bombers worked unopposed. John has loaded up Shanghai with aircraft. Allied army will reach Swatow day after tomorrow. Lots of enemy divisions bound (I think) for this region. Let'm come into the open, where Allied bombers can get at 'em.

In Indochina, the main Allied stack is two hexes from Hanoi; down south, an important attack tomorrow on the outskirts of Saigon; and I think John is planning some kind of counteroffensive in the Thailand region, possibly by land and sea.






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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10936
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 1:18:56 PM   
jwolf

 

Posts: 2493
Joined: 12/3/2013
Status: offline
quote:

KB: Enemy carrier TFs withdraw from the Miri sector and seemingly vanish into the Java Sea.


Perhaps to Singapore to rearm?

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10937
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 3:00:25 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Most players want high aggression leaders because they will always fly or attack. They miss the boat...letting the local commander make decisions is often for the best.

You have multiple roles for Subs...from dropping mines, to pickets, to cargo raiding, to fleet support...

Don't forget to change their threat level too...where appropriate. Nothing wrong with using Low threat and a high aggression captain for instance.


I have always wondered if low aggression sub commanders would more likely bypass shooting at an escort and target a merchant instead. I tend to have high aggression commanders and find that my subs target low priority escorts about half the time when attacking TFs-usually missing and then getting pounded in return. Never tested it though.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 10938
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 3:08:44 PM   
dave sindel

 

Posts: 488
Joined: 3/13/2006
From: Millersburg, OH
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Most players want high aggression leaders because they will always fly or attack. They miss the boat...letting the local commander make decisions is often for the best.

You have multiple roles for Subs...from dropping mines, to pickets, to cargo raiding, to fleet support...

Don't forget to change their threat level too...where appropriate. Nothing wrong with using Low threat and a high aggression captain for instance.


I have always wondered if low aggression sub commanders would more likely bypass shooting at an escort and target a merchant instead. I tend to have high aggression commanders and find that my subs target low priority escorts about half the time when attacking TFs-usually missing and then getting pounded in return. Never tested it though.


I have noticed this same trend. I am going to try the "low aggression commander" tactic as subs come back to port for replenishment and see if I notice any difference.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 10939
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 4:54:57 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		I would think that a low aggression commander would be put off by the presence of the escorts and not attack at all.

Have to admit I have never tested it though.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to dave sindel)
Post #: 10940
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 6:32:31 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		8/21/44

Peep Show: No enemy CAP over Formosa. Four of five enemy airfields showing 100% damage; Takao damage in the 80s.

Night Bombing: Scattered small groups of B-29s target Harbin, my first night-bombing raid of the war. No CAP encountered; no damage done.

China: US divisions and combat engineers will reach Swatow tomorrow.

Indochina: Allied troops mess up a battered mixed brigade NW of Saigon; it declined to retreat, so it oughta really get messed up tomorrow.

Also, enemy combat TF at Cam Ranh Bay. No reason for it to be there unless it's going to Formosa (I think). But I don't think KB is up/over here. I think it's in the Java Sea or at Singers.




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Post #: 10941
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 6:43:27 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		8/21/44

Death Star: DS and Mini DS have merged in the Philippine Sea. Who cares? Big deal! Why even mention it?

Well, truth be told, getting these reinforcements into theater without loss is hugely important. So I went ahead and mentioned it.






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Post #: 10942
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 7:02:11 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		If you want to track night bombing effectiveness, you need to look at damage in a day or two...first reports are always low, and you can cause damage without getting any hits on the replay but there always seem to be a lag in seeing the results....best look at VP screen.

Moonlight is 21%. What altitude did you fly at? Full bomb loads or partial? DL on the day before, and did you fly recon on the night of the attack? AA present: light, medium or heavy?

What attack did you do --- manpower, plane factory, light industry, etc?

Harbin was a good first pick...but if you were playing me...you would have run into night fighters too, there.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10943
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 7:16:37 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		10k altitude; no enemy CAP or flak; extended range, so reduced bomb load; no recon (that'll come later, but not prior to the first attack of the war); target was aircraft factory.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 10944
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 7:40:32 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		What do you have that can fly night recon missions at that range? Anything?

I forgot to ask what the weather was?

I am assuming you have decent leaders and flying from a large runway with a good HQa present.


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10945
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 7:57:34 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

10k altitude; no enemy CAP or flak; extended range, so reduced bomb load; no recon (that'll come later, but not prior to the first attack of the war); target was aircraft factory.


Pinpoint night bombing on specific industries, especially without recon, is a low-return proposition. You can go lower; just avoid balloon heights. And Manpower bomb. Fire is your friend. You won't get your hoped-for target every time, but you have a lot better chance of getting something.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10946
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 7:58:43 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Flying from a level 8 field; I didn't pay attention to the weather; pilots and leaders are good; I don't have an air HQ present yet, though some will get there eventually. I do have a ground HQ - 8th Army. I wonder if it would help to install a leader with an high Air rating. It probably would work?

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 10947
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 8:15:41 PM   
Mike McCreery


Posts: 4232
Joined: 6/29/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

10k altitude; no enemy CAP or flak; extended range, so reduced bomb load; no recon (that'll come later, but not prior to the first attack of the war); target was aircraft factory.


Pinpoint night bombing on specific industries, especially without recon, is a low-return proposition. You can go lower; just avoid balloon heights. And Manpower bomb. Fire is your friend. You won't get your hoped-for target every time, but you have a lot better chance of getting something.


What he said. Even if you burn resource on the HI you still get strategic points. Hit some areas that only have that once in a while to keep him on his toes :]


_____________________________


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Post #: 10948
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 8:39:50 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Pretty sure an Army or Corps HQ will not assist air ops under any circumstances, so save the PP on the leader switch. A Command HQ would help with air admin tasks like replacement and upgrade, but not sure if it would affect air ops at all.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 10949
RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent - 6/15/2017 10:11:46 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		8/21/44

14th Air HQ: Turns out I do have a big air HQ at Foochow....with an excellent commanding officer to boot.




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Post #: 10950
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